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Duet Tuning.

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:12 pm
by wepollock
I am getting good results with Pressure Advance. Have tuned that parameter to .06 and upwards to .15..
At higher levels extrusion can become too sparse over small spaces. Near .06 is the sweet spot.

I have also tuned the E portion of M566 a bit higher than the default of E2000.
This is having a very good effect. (I have a geared titan extruder)

Re: Duet Tuning.

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:24 am
by DeltaCon
Have you found a decent how-to for calibrating this feature?
I was never able to find one.

Re: Duet Tuning.

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:42 am
by wepollock
Nope... never found a guide. However, On the Duet website they have some good Pressure Advance Documentation.
For me, I find the technical stuff daunting - both overwhelming and fear inspiring. I guess that is what makes this fun... Frankly, I find jiggering with stuff more fun than printing. But I do feel like Mr. Magoo. with this stuff.

The way I have been tuning parameters is by using the command line.
EG on M566 - I change the parameter, wait, and then look for results.

I am getting great results (with a geared extruder) @2500.. the extruder noise introduced with pressure advance is reduced as well.
I think a much-much lower M566 number for a direct drive extruder (then the default) might work better for the EZRStruder which is direct drive.

7:36:26 AMM566
Maximum jerk rates: X: 2000.0, Y: 2000.0, Z: 2000.0, E: 2500.0:2500.0:2500.0:2500.0:2500.0:2500.0:250 ... 0.0:2500.0

6:38:30 PMM566 X2000 Y2000 Z2000 E3000
6:36:56 PMM566 X2000 Y2000 Z2000 E3500
6:35:19 PMM566 X2000 Y2000 Z2000 E4000
6:30:57 PMM566 X2000 Y2000 Z2000 E3000
6:13:18 PMM566 X2000 Y2000 Z2000 E2500
6:10:43 PMM566 X2000 Y2000 Z2000 E1500
6:07:40 PMM566 X2000 Y2000 Z2000 E1000
6:03:22 PMM566 X2000 Y2000 Z2000 E600

The Pleasure Advance Tuning was at the command line as well.

Extruder pressure advance: 0.060, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000

Changes I would like to make to the printer

I have parts on order (hopefully correct) to build a hot end patch board - it will let me plug the existing wire harness into the patch board, and run an E3d hot end w/o having to change the wiring harness. So I will retain compatibility with the Seemecnc hot end. I will be able to swap in any hot end irrespective of make. It would be much easier if the part numbers of the molex effector-connectors were published.

I would like to add a second extruder with a 1.8 stepping angle.
I just soldered up a "patch panel" so I can run a wire to a duet and then go from the four pin patch panel to any stepper motor in any configuration. I highly recommend Engineer PA-09 Connector Pliers as a must have tool..

On my Rostock Max I am going to test putting a extruder on the effector.

I am still mulling about buying a "lab machine"

Re: Duet Tuning.

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:11 pm
by wepollock
Just setup a Kysan 1124090 8437 as an alternate extruder motor. I need to attach an extruder and do some tuning.

The idea is to have a patch board so I can swap in any kind of extruder I want to use. The next patch board will accomplish the same for the effector. I will put a cover over the protoboard.


M550 PArtemis ; Printer name
M555 P2 ; Repetier Output
M552 S1 ; Enable Wifi
M575 P1 B57600 S1 ; PanelDue Comm Setup
G21 ; Work in millimetres
G90 ; Send absolute coordinates

M569 P0 S0 ; Drive 0 goes forwards (X)
M569 P1 S0 ; Drive 1 goes forwards (Y)
M569 P2 S0 ; Drive 2 goes forwards (Z)
;M569 P3 S1 ; Drive 3 goes forwards (E0) original
M569 P3 S0 ; Drive 3 goes forwards (E0) titan
M569 P4 S1 ; Drive 4 goes forwards (E1)

M574 X2 Y2 Z2 S1 ; set endstop configuration (all endstops at high end, active high)

M665 R150 L351.155 B145 H530 X0 Y0 Z0 ; delta radius, diagonal rod length, printable radius and homed height
; Y X Z are tower angle offsets
M666 X0 Y0 Z0 ; endstop offsets in mm

M350 X16 Y16 Z16 E16:16:16 I1 ; Set 16x microstepping w/ Interpolation added 1
M92 X200 Y200 Z200 ; Set axis steps/mm
;M92 E182.0:182.0 ; Set extruder steps/mm original
M92 E810.0:200 ; changed 810 to 200

M906 X1100 Y1100 Z1100 E1000:800 I50 ; Set motor currents (mA) and idle current %
M201 X5000 Y5000 Z5000 E5000:1000 ; Accelerations (mm/s^2) added 1000
M203 X30000 Y30000 Z30000 E30000:3600 ; Maximum speeds (mm/min) added 3600
M566 X2000 Y2000 Z2000 E2500:2500 ; Maximum instant speed changes mm/minute - changed from 2000 added 50

M106 P0 H-1 ; Part Cooling Fan
M106 P2 T50 S0.5 H1 ; Heat sink fan

M307 H0 B0 ; Heated Bed (H2)
M305 P0 T100000 B4388 R4700 H30 L0 ; Bed thermistor

M305 P1 T100000 B4388 R4700 H30 L0 ; Hot end Thermistor
M563 P0 D0 H1 ; Hot end (T0), drive (E0), heater (H1)
M563 P1 D1 H1; Define tool 1
G10 P0 S0 R0 ; Hot end operating and standby temperatures

;Dual Extrusion Code
;M563 P1 D1 H1 F1 ; Hot end (T1), drive (E1), heater (H1)
;G10 P1 S0 R0 ; Hot end (1) operating and standby temperatures

M558 P5 I1 X0 Y0 Z0 H5 F200 ; FSR Settings
G31 P500 X0 Y0 Z-.1 ; Probe trigger value and offsets changed from -.3 to -0.4 -0.5 -.8 -1.2 to -.15 -.05 -1.6 -2.2
M270 I1 P1 S0.05 ; Enabled Probe doubletap w/ 0.05mm tolerance
M557 R140 S30 ; defualt bed mapping
M501 ; Load saved config values
T0 ; Select Tool 0

Re: Duet Tuning.

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:55 am
by geneb
Holy Overkill, Batman! :D

Go here, ... in_lp_1x4/ and grab a male 1x4 housing (2nd item down).

They also sell a ratcheting crimp tool that works wonderfully.


Re: Duet Tuning.

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:45 am
by wepollock
Love the Batman quote! In terms of seeing small stuff a Mr. Magoo quote would have been more appropriate.

I have all sorts of Molex latching coming in from Digikey. (ergh, hardware is massively expensive) That same Adafruit Perma-proto is going to be the basis of my effector "patch board." I have to remap pins and add positive to the fans, hence the protoboard.

I wanted some practice soldering (seeing if I could see the solder points).

I ditched my ratcheting crimping tool in favor of a PA-09. It's the best crimping tool I have ever used. Its near perfect every time but it takes two operations to finish a crimp. but its not appropriate for folks that need to do full scale production.

[url] ... neer+pa-09[/url]

I like using the "solder in breadboards" because you can lay stuff out and then transfer over from a breadboard. ... _id=200042

Re: Duet Tuning.

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:50 am
by geneb
Since you just cost me $44 for a new crimping tool *shakes fist*, I'm going to cost you $52 for a very excellent set of magnifiers: :D :D :D

These have a focal length of around 420mm, which means you're working at arms length, not 2" from your face. I got the idea from my dental hygienist, although she was pretty annoyed when I got these for ~$50 and she paid $1500 for hers. :D

I use them any time I'm soldering up a board or doing connector crimps, etc.


Re: Duet Tuning.

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:25 am
by wepollock
Oh Bugs! (Bugs-used in place of a superlative)

1) I will really look like Mr. Magoo
2) I will be able to see
3) Brilliant!
4) Another $44 down the 3d printing wormhole.

(On another note, the Rambo on the Rostock max 2; can it support an extruder set at 800 steps +/- per 100mm)

Re: Duet Tuning.

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:31 pm
by adarcher
I've got those crimpers too, was finally able to do some 1mm pins at work the other day. Even then, I decided my hands are too shaky now a days and I just buy pre-crimped wires from digikey in bulk if I've got more than just a few to do.

Re: Duet Tuning.

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:06 pm
by wepollock
I changed the thermistor I am getting some heater fault errors due to what I think is a slightly lower heat up time
Actually I think it may be a much larger mass that needs to heat up in the Titan Areo (and I am not using the E3d thermistor because I don't like the fragility of them)

temperature rising much more slowly than the expected 1.9°C/sec

I think I need to increase Dead Time?

I manually set deadtime and it looks like its ok, with very little deviation in temperature so far.

Re: Duet Tuning.

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:45 pm
by wepollock

OK, at present this just seems to be an issue on warmup not when the hotend is up to temperature.

There is no M307 in the default configuration file for H1

Re: Duet Tuning.

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:46 pm
by dc42
wepollock wrote:

OK, at present this just seems to be an issue on warmup not when the hotend is up to temperature.

There is no M307 in the default configuration file for H1
In that case I suggest you run M303 heater tuning, and transfer the results to a M307 command in config.g (or config-override.g if you are using it).

Re: Duet Tuning.

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:12 am
by wepollock
I finally got in a handheld thermocouple.
I am using a Biqu thermistor. The advantage is that the resistor is prewired in a home run and fully wrapped.
I found that unless you secure an E3d thermistor down properly the wires break off from the connector.
The problem with the Biqu is I don't know the beta (and other correct settings)

But. the thermocouple device did help me drill into the situation more deeply.

Monitoring the BIQU with my handheld thermocouple suggests that the temperature is too high at 4388 or 4700.. the interface states that the temp is 200 degrees and the thermocouple is 10 over. @3950 Beta the thermocouple is a bit too cool -5 to -10 degrees from stated plus. What I am measuring is the external part of the heat-block with an E3d sock. I think the correct setting for the BIQU is 3950. A concern with the Biqu is the fact that I am having a hard time finding a spec sheet.

I WILL go back to the E3d thermistor because its performance is "known" and well documented

Here is a datasheet for E3d.

I wonder if the PT100 gives you a better result.
---On the duet there is a daughterboard
---On E3d's solution there is a standalone board..
(this is on a list of to do for lab)

;M305 P1 T100000 B4388 R4700 H30 L0 ; Hot end Thermistor
;M305 P1 T100000 B4725 R4700 H30 L0 ; E3d thermistor
M305 P1 T100000 B3950 R4700 H30 L0

Re: Duet Tuning.

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:46 pm
by wepollock
Ok.. this is with an E3d thermistor.. properly calibrated..

Duet is reporting 200.. the thermocouple is reporting 220...
@ 195 I am reading 215
@ 190 I am reading 210

(I will just print low.. | its hard to figure out what is the correct temperature)
The temp is rock solid


Re: Duet Tuning.

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:18 pm
by dc42
To get a more accurate reading from the thermocouple, feed it into the hot end through a short Bowden tube instead of filament.

Re: Duet Tuning.

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:58 pm
by hectori

Re: Duet Tuning.

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:21 pm
by wepollock
hectori wrote:Made this change and test. (E3d)


That is really cool... I did not realize the firmware was accessible on the SD card (not having looked on the SD card)... I will take a look at the SD card.. Also I am will test putting the thermocouple into the hot ends gudgeon.

As to Duet

I think it's a totally amazing product; I am of the perception they are way way ahead of the curve.

E3D tool Changer - good to know that Duet is capable of driving innovations in hardware.

I am thinking about the E3d tool changing platform a bit. I don't know if tool changing is a "must have" type of feature for me personally. I wonder what kind of complexity is involved in driving a tool change. Having played with dual extrusions and routinely using layer based settings; A slicer can differentiate based on layer and also based on tool (extruder - and tool settings). Sanjay (in his online presentation) mentioned that Fusion in specific (and software in general) has to grow into the task of integrating some of the feature sets that are necessary to simplify some of the complexity.

At least for me personally, the heavy lifting is software.

I do see some major value in having a very rigid platform. How much further along in hardware can fdm be taken?

The Artemis is definitely where it needs to be in the rigidity department; plus the workpiece is not moving around.
Having more robust belts would be a nice to have.
E3d is cantilevered and they are suggesting minimal deflection.
They are thinking about use cases. (my use case is fun frankly - yeah, I did just design {and am testing} a track light fixture to replace a 24v AC one which nobody seems to want to sell these days - bridge rectifier - voltage converter - cob led - PETG print - running about 50c. +-)

I am experiencing some of the real value in not having a Bowden tube, and instead having the extruder mounted on the effector. I am getting the best prints I have ever obtained from a printer.

I am playing with my Rostock Max 2 now.. I am putting a direct drive effector with a Bondtech extruder.
I am losing height, but I can just plug in a different effector as needed.

Re: Duet Tuning.

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:42 am
by geneb
Just FYI, what hector did doesn't have anything to do with the Duet. He's making changes to the RAMBo firmware.


Re: Duet Tuning.

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:04 am
by wepollock
I think that Duet firmware is a Bin file (compiled) but I do think the source code is accessible (which I have never looked at because I hate software).

The duet issue was tuning thermistor settings - which I accomplished. The only issue remaining is whether or not the thermistor is reporting accurate temperatures to the web interface. Next time I have my effector off the machine I will put the thermocouple sensor through the filament hole right into the center of the hot end.

On balance its more important to hold temperature steady than it is to have an accurate read. With M303 my temps are rock steady. Using multiple brands of filament I try to find a temperature that is best for that filament.

eg Atomic PETG I was running at 245 and then with Novamaker PETG I am better at 230.

I am musing about getting a lab machine; Duet is a must have on that machine. If I remain at 12v I can have .4 .5 .6 .8 nozzle-effectors that can switch between machines. My choices: Upgrading the Rostock max to Duet? Another Artemis? Or the E3d "platform and "the uncertainties I have towards software?; and a loss of compatibility between components.." Or adding another 3d printer and getting tossed from the house.

This is not the right thread for this; but here is my second print from the Rostock Max with a Direct Drive Bondtech Extruder, 14nm 1.8 motor, and and E3d V6. The machine is going to need new belts as they are a bit brittle - and new cheapskates sooner than later - and new arms. On the PETG print the threads are perfect, there is no string, the only improvement would be more infill.


Re: Duet Tuning.

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:00 pm
by Xenocrates
The Max V2 is pretty easy to change over to Duet. I designed a board mount that is drop in with plenty of cooling fans, available [url=]for download here[/url] Should be either printable or laser cut (That's how I made mine). I also don't think it's likely adding another printer would get you tossed from the house. A moving vehicle, or taller building is far more likely.

Doing work with as many printers as I do, I cannot overstate the importance of parts commonality, although you can have some pretty large commonality between very different printers. On the other hand, having code and geometry compatibility is much harder, but even more rewarding. Especially if you're looking for a Lab/Production divide. So I'd go the cheaper route and buy another duet board, and change the V2 over. Another thing to think about would be a PT100 temperature sensor. They are more accurate than thermistors and thermocouples, and although somewhat more expensive, they have more resolution as well, if used properly, and daughterboards for the modern Duets are easily available.

Re: Duet Tuning.

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:32 pm
by wepollock

I see you have done lots of good stuff to the Rostock max including FSR.

If I go duet on the Rostock Max, what about noise? Are the stepper drivers reducing noise or is it the micro-stepping?

Commonality and separating lab from production are good things to have.

When I escape from New York.. (by making my FLA house a full time residence) I will just rent some studio space ($250-$350mo); here in NY the rent is just too damn high

PS I will add PT100 to my testing to-do list. E3d's solution is a stand alone board. I guess the Duet board is the way to go.

Re: Duet Tuning.

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:30 pm
by Xenocrates
It's a combination of the two. The drivers dictate the frequency to a degree, and the build quality can affect the whine from the coils. A Duet with similar drivers to the Rambo (IE a .8.5), won't have much noise improvement, but the newer trinamic drivers that the Wifi and Ethernet use are much quieter, thanks to their ability to operate at frequencies that are out of hearing, and to better handle the noise profile. Microstepping can also help, because it's manipulating the waveforms to get partial movement, and the waveforms that are output are what drive the noise. The speed of motion can also matter. But from what I've encountered, my printer with a Duet .8.5 is somewhat quieter than similarly equipped RAMBO's (My print is however, somewhat louder than stock for the motor noise, as the panels amplify things.

The E3D board is setup to emulate a thermistor given a PT100 input, to make it simpler to connect to electronics without good support. The Duet board uses a sensor specific measuring IC that interfaces over an I2C bus. Another nice thing is that the Duet module is stackable, is set-up with standoffs for rigidity, has two inputs per card, and supports a 4 wire sensor if you're aiming for even more accuracy.

Also, if you like any of the things I've posted about design wise, and you can't find a file/guide, ask me. I may have forgotten, or else it wasn't clean enough at the time to share.

Re: Duet Tuning.

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:40 am
by geneb
The sound difference between the Duet 0.8.5 and the DuetWifi is astonishing. The 0.8.5 is insanely loud in comparison.


Re: Duet Tuning.

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:29 am
by DeltaCon
geneb wrote:The sound difference between the Duet 0.8.5 and the DuetWifi is astonishing. The 0.8.5 is insanely loud in comparison.
The Duet 0.6 is already incredibly easier on the ears than the Rambo ever was too! ;-)

Re: Duet Tuning.

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:28 pm
by dc42
DeltaCon wrote:
geneb wrote:The sound difference between the Duet 0.8.5 and the DuetWifi is astonishing. The 0.8.5 is insanely loud in comparison.
The Duet 0.6 is already incredibly easier on the ears than the Rambo ever was too! ;-)
Assuming the same motor current in both cases, that would be because RepRapFirmware generates step pulses at regular intervals, whereas AFAIK most or all 8-bit firmwares still use the Bresenham algorithm, which generates step pulses at uneven intervals except when motion is in particular directions. When I changed RRF not to use Bresenham in late 2014, several users commented that the motors sounded smoother.