Getting the most from your ezStruder

[bvandiepenbos]

Mods/upgrades that will help the ezStruder push filament more reliably, particularly when running smaller than stock .5 nozzle ...


1. Add a M4 x 10 socket head cap screw to the spring to increase spring pressure. See photos.

2. Trim off the height of pivot boss for the red lever so it can not twist to the side. About .010" - .015" is all it needs, just so boss is flush with lever.
3. Replace the washer under the pivot screw with a larger diameter to help stabilize the lever.

4. Replace stock stepper motor with a Kysan #1040222 5:1 geared stepper motor to increase torque. http://www.3dmakerworld.com/store/parts ... pper-motor" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You will need to make or print an adapter plate for the geared stepper. Here is a printable one https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:131310" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I machined mine from aluminum
The stock stepper has 76 oz-in of torque, the geared one has 125 oz-in
Note: the geared motor has a 8mm dia. shaft, stock motor is 5mm. So you will need to bore out the stock roller or get another one.
They are a bit hard to find with 8mm hole, see posts below for some sources. I carefully bore out the stock roller on my lathe.

5. Make sure you are running motor at proper amperage.

6. Replace the PTC fitting with a fitting that allows bowden tube to pass thru all the way close to the drive roller.
E3D Hot Ends http://e3d-online.com/E3D-v6/Spares/Thr ... m-Filament" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
or their nifty groove mount bowden adapter http://e3d-online.com/E3D-v6/Spares/Bow ... m-Filament" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
saves you the headache of tapping out the stock piece larger ( 1/8-27NPT Thread )
E3D goodies also available in the USA from Filastruder http://www.filastruder.com/collections/ ... ccessories" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

OR Distech Automation (They make the great Prometheus Hot End) http://www.dta-labs.com/collections/hot-ends" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

These are the things I do to my builds. I am sure you guys have other mods to, please feel free to add to this thread.
See the attached photos to hopefully clarify things.
Hope this helps somebody.

[Nylocke]

Awesome guide Brian. If I can get my hands on some geared extruders I would totally make this change, been having issues with Nylon recently

[Glacian22]

Great writeup! It's worth noting to anyone following this guide that the geared steppers use an 8mm shaft instead of the 5mm on the stock stepper, so you'll need to get a hobbed gear with the larger bore. And because of this, you'll need to widen the hole on the clear cover to accomodate this...it's easy enough to do with a knife.


The extra torque makes a huge, huge difference in the reliability of the ezstruder, particularly if you're using an all metal hotend, or dealing with exotic filaments.

[Eaglezsoar]

Thanks to Brian for a great tutorial. Does anyone have a source for the 8mm ID hobbed gear?

[0110-m-p]

Thanks to Brian for a great tutorial. Does anyone have a source for the 8mm ID hobbed gear?

Only found a couple of US sources for these...

http://store.makerstoolworks.com/extrud ... hined-hob/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.tridprinting.com/Mechanical-Parts/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (bottom of the page)

[Eaglezsoar]

Thanks to Brian for a great tutorial. Does anyone have a source for the 8mm ID hobbed gear?

Only found a couple of US sources for these...

http://store.makerstoolworks.com/extrud ... hined-hob/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.tridprinting.com/Mechanical-Parts/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (bottom of the page)

Thank you! I just placed an order with http://www.tridprinting.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[critical_limit]

Is the OD of the original hobbed gear 12.5mm also?
I´m not at home for the next 2 weeks, but want to order the parts.

What I think is that the diameter where the teeth are is more important. Somebody here who can meassure the OD and the diamenter where the filament is in?
If it´s not exactly the same diameter we can´t user our Extruder because the Filament will be shifted sideways so its not going straight to the tube inlet hole.

thanx
Dirk

[bvandiepenbos]

Glacian, your right the shaft is 8mm instead of 5 like stock. Can't believe I missed pointing that out. Thanks for the catch. I will edit original post.

I bore the stock roller out to 8mm carefully on my lathe.
They are hard to find. Thanks guys for the other source links.
I have also bought 8mm drive rollers from Tytan 3D in Poland http://www.tytan3d.com/en/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; I am also testing one of their all metal "Goliat" extruders on NEMESIS v2, so far it is working pretty good.
Note: the Tytan rollers teeth are not as nice as others, teeth are coarser and not as sharp. Still seems to work though.

Stock SeeMeCNC rollers I just measured are 12mm O.D. and 10.8 dia. at bottom of groove.
Tytan rollers are 12.5mm O.D. and 10.6 to 10.7 at bottom of groove, close enough to still work but you will need to test and adjust your steps per MM in firmware.
No matter whose roller you are using you need to calibrate it. Here is how I check it, make a reference mark with a sharpie on the filament, extrude 100 mm of filament and measure how far it really moves. Adjust steps per MM accordingly. You will need to send M302 command to allow extruder movement when hot end is not up to temperature. For a starting point my steps per mm with gearred stepper and SeeMe roller are 491.5
On the machine with the Tytan roller it is at 561.7 (either the groove is deeper or greater spring pressure of Goliat is smashing filament a bit more changing the effective filament drive radius. Maybe both.)
No matter what roller you have you should check the calibration. Not all actually feed the same, even from same mfg. Spring pressure, filament diameter and softness of filament does affect steps/mm just a little.

[bvandiepenbos]

I have not tried it, but another option that may work instead of the geared stepper motor is this high torque nema 17 motor
http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Sho ... MTR-17060D" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- 5 mm shaft, so stock drive roller works.
- NEMA 17, so ezStruder bolts right up.
- 125 oz-in torque like the geared stepper.
These are nice motors, I use them on the NEMESIS v2 for XYZ

The only thing is you would not have the increased steps/mm resolution like you gain with the geared setup. I don't know for sure, but it seems like higher steps per mm wold be a good thing, particularly at really low extrusion rates like when using .35 nozzle.

Any thoughts?

[critical_limit]

Brian,

thanx for the Measurments of the hobbed gear.

I have now one of these on Order:
http://www.eztronics.nl/webshop2/catalo ... uct_id=219" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

it´s 220 oz/inch. Should be enough

I ordered that Tytan Extruder some days before. Looks nice and is fully Aluminum. Worth a try.

Hope the upgrade now enables the use of the .25 and .20 Nozzles I have and allows to print higher than 10mm/sec.
I prefer a geared stepper, because at these nozzlesizes and the slowed down speed due to high pressure you need very little extrusion rates. And from my experience you can see every step the extruder makes on your model. Hope that I will have a more constant flow with the geared motor at these slow speeds.

Be back home in 10 days hoping all stuff arrived. More info when upgrade is finished....

cheers
Dirk

[0110-m-p]

So what are you guys thoughts on geared stepper motors vs. geared extruders with standard motors?

I've started developing my dual extruder setup and was planning on using a pair of richrap's modified greg's wade bowden extruders. Definitely the cheaper setup between the two.

[critical_limit]

So what are you guys thoughts on geared stepper motors vs. geared extruders with standard motors?

I've started developing my dual extruder setup and was planning on using a pair of richrap's modified greg's wade bowden extruders. Definitely the cheaper setup between the two.

Result will be the same, I think. Both leading to more steps per mm with higher torque at the hobbed gear. And thats we want.
Maybe geared steppers are more precise, but when the gears on a geared extruder are worn, just print new ones. Had one on my cartesian printer working well.

[JFettig]

Why doesn't anyone sell a cheap gear head we can bolt onto existing motors? They are pretty cheap with a motor whicvc is interesting

[Nylocke]

That link Brian posted from automation direct has a few gearboxes for NEMA 17s, just bare, though they all are $200 a pop :/

[bvandiepenbos]

So what are you guys thoughts on geared stepper motors vs. geared extruders with standard motors?

I've started developing my dual extruder setup and was planning on using a pair of richrap's modified greg's wade bowden extruders. Definitely the cheaper setup between the two.

Either way should work, what you want is more torque and resolution. Planetary geared stepper is more compact, simpler and quieter than gears.
If space is not a concern you could use GT2 belt and pulleys for gear reduction that is silent. Although belts, pulleys, and bearings can add up cost wise.
So the geared stepper seems like the simplest most cost effective way to go.

[bvandiepenbos]

Just did a compare
The Kysan 1040222 geared stepper I have been using has 125 oz-in torque

But the Phidgets geared stepper has 225 oz-in !!
http://www.phidgets.com/products.php?product_id=3325" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So the Phidgets is the better choice. For only $5.00 more I think it is worth it.
Plus you can probably order just (1) from Phidgets.
You can order direct from Kysan, but you need a $100 min order, which is 3 motors.
I like that it also has shaft on back that you could put a knob on.

[bot]

Well I am stupid. Not long ago, while researching printers, I found a source for affordable (I think they were affordable) planetary gearsets for nema 17s........

WHY DID I NOT BOOKMARK IT!?

Okay I found it... with no mention of price. Just a claim of affordability.

http://www.linengineering.com/press-rel ... esign.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Nylocke]

http://www.linengineering.com/gearheads ... arbox.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Slightly better page with more info. Looks like you have to request a quote, on the lines of larger orders? Sounds like we need another astroboy...

[critical_limit]

Well I am stupid. Not long ago, while researching printers, I found a source for affordable (I think they were affordable) planetary gearsets for nema 17s........

WHY DID I NOT BOOKMARK IT!?

Okay I found it... with no mention of price. Just a claim of affordability.

http://www.linengineering.com/press-rel ... esign.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Do you have a link for price and supplier. Can´t find any other than only informations about that gearhead.

[JFettig]

Couple more options for gear motors:
http://www.omc-stepperonline.com/gear-r ... -p-40.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.omc-stepperonline.com/high-t ... p-295.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[0110-m-p]

Either way should work, what you want is more torque and resolution. Planetary geared stepper is more compact, simpler and quieter than gears.

Thanks for the info. I've only ever ran the standard EZstruder setup. I've already printed all the extruder parts so I think I'm going to continue down the road I'm on.

If space is not a concern you could use GT2 belt and pulleys for gear reduction that is silent. Although belts, pulleys, and bearings can add up cost wise.

I've thought about doing something like this on a few machines I'm concepting right now. Have played with the idea for both the X and Y axis of a cartesian and all towers on a delta. Never really thought about it for the extruder though...kind of like that idea.

[bvandiepenbos]

If space is not a concern you could use GT2 belt and pulleys for gear reduction that is silent. Although belts, pulleys, and bearings can add up cost wise.

I've thought about doing something like this on a few machines I'm concepting right now. Have played with the idea for both the X and Y axis of a cartesian and all towers on a delta. Never really thought about it for the extruder though...kind of like that idea.

here is a couple really good looking designs...
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:566329" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:389105" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

there are more, search thingiverse for "belted extruder"

[Jimustanguitar]

Unfortunately, it turns out that the E3D fitting is not a drop in replacement for the SeeMe part. The dimensions are different enough that this will be a custom jobbie now.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/mHvcA24.png[/img] [img]http://i.imgur.com/wRfeIE6.png[/img]

[bvandiepenbos]

Unfortunately, it turns out that the E3D fitting is not a drop in replacement for the SeeMe part. The dimensions are different enough that this will be a custom jobbie now.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/mHvcA24.png[/img] [img]http://i.imgur.com/wRfeIE6.png[/img]

Jim, looks like it fits OK. I don't think the extra groove width will be a issue as long as the adapter clamps in tight. ?

I have a few of those on order, should be here in a few days.

[dclarkm]

Looking at some of these mods and it's great info!

One question, when increasing the extruder torque doesn't that decrease the speed you can send filament to the hot end? Does this reduction present any possible reduction in practical linear print speeds and if so, what sort of limits do you run into? When investigating other printers with non-geared extruders, I recall seeing complaints of slow print speeds that were directly related to limited filament delivery to the hot end when the delta movement potential itself was 3 to 5 times higher (not that you would consider printing at max movement speeds).

Just asking if the better torque and resolution of these mods directly effects max usable print speeds (and thus total print times).