24v Accessories

[Jimustanguitar]

My current 24v setup steps down to 12v before it feeds the Rambo because I didn't want to mess with the unknown quantity of getting my motor currents and fan/LED voltages right again.

For those of you who run 24VDC to everything, what accessories are you using? Have you found a 24v 10x30 blower fan and modded your LED rings and things like that, or am I worrying about a non-issue? I read a little bit about using PID to dial down your voltages, also the possibility of using a voltage regulator for the little stuff... What is the best way to approach this?

[DerStig]

My current 24v setup steps down to 12v before it feeds the Rambo because I didn't want to mess with the unknown quantity of getting my motor currents and fan/LED voltages right again.

For those of you who run 24VDC to everything, what accessories are you using? Have you found a 24v 10x30 blower fan and modded your LED rings and things like that, or am I worrying about a non-issue? I read a little bit about using PID to dial down your voltages, also the possibility of using a voltage regulator for the little stuff... What is the best way to approach this?

Tracking this! Like you I want to run a 24v heat bed and think it might be a good idea to run the steppers on 24v but wondering about running the Hotend, Fans and LEDS from 12volts and how to do it with a Duet board.

[Glacian22]

My strategy is just use a 24v for the bed, hotend (with a 24v heater cartridge), and steppers, but pair the fans, LEDs, whatever, to get them to 12v each. ie put two 12v fans in series so they're getting an appropriate voltage.

[AlanZ]

Jim, I configured my setup similar to yours. I don't understand what gain there might be by going 24volts for other items.. Is there some way that your current system would be improved?

[Jimustanguitar]

Jim, I configured my setup similar to yours. I don't understand what gain there might be by going 24volts for other items.. Is there some way that your current system would be improved?

If I can run everything on 24v, getting rid of the step down converter is just one less component. That's my main motivation, simplicity and parts count. Steppers will have a higher torque, although I don't think that my steppers are disadvantaged or that my heat-up time is tedius on the hot-end or anything like that... It's also good for the placebo effect

[teoman]

I was thinking of the same thing two days ago.

I have a lot of <1Amp stepdown regulators that cost 1 usd each. From what i read (and please do not take my word for it) the fans are the only components that need the 12V. adsjusting fan speed may be a tad tricky, but again a pwm limit coul solve its issues.

The hotend is a cheapo resistor, so only adjusting MAX PWM for that would solve its issues if it has any.

[Eaglezsoar]

My current 24v setup steps down to 12v before it feeds the Rambo because I didn't want to mess with the unknown quantity of getting my motor currents and fan/LED voltages right again.

For those of you who run 24VDC to everything, what accessories are you using? Have you found a 24v 10x30 blower fan and modded your LED rings and things like that, or am I worrying about a non-issue? I read a little bit about using PID to dial down your voltages, also the possibility of using a voltage regulator for the little stuff... What is the best way to approach this?

Jim, I take the 24V and feed it to the hotbed and also to a 24v to 12V converter. The converter I use is not cheap but it has worked without a fault. Here is the link:
http://www.amazon.com/HOSSEN%C2%AE-Conv ... 24v+to+12v" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Jimustanguitar]

Thanks, Eagle. Same one I've been using. That's what I'm debating whether or not to use on the next build.

[Eaglezsoar]

Thanks, Eagle. Same one I've been using. That's what I'm debating whether or not to use on the next build.

I will not run components designed for 12 Volts on 24 Volts. Which means if I do not use the converter then I have to source out 24 Volt fans, change resistor values for leds, etc.
For me it is just easier to use the converter.

[Renha]

i am building new printer to be 24V only, 24v fans are not too problematic to find, 24v heater cartrigdes too, etc. Only if you'll want water cooling - i haven't seen many 24v pumps, that's why my current printer have converter.

[Xenocrates]

Or you could measure the resistance of the pump, and add a similarly sized resistor, which should put the voltage drop where you want it (and make a random resistor rather warm)

[Eaglezsoar]

i am building new printer to be 24V only, 24v fans are not too problematic to find, 24v heater cartrigdes too, etc. Only if you'll want water cooling - i haven't seen many 24v pumps, that's why my current printer have converter.

Don't forget other accessories such as leds, temperature displays etc. They all are going to need different resistors to drop the current to the proper level used by 12 Voits. It is so much easier just to use the 24V to 12V converter that I posted above.

[DougLorenz]

I recently purchased a Rostock Max V2 and am enjoying it immensely. There are a few upgrades that I'm working on, and upgrading the Onyx bed to 24v is high on that list.

I am using a Rambo v1.3L board in my Rostock, which seems to be tolerant of the higher voltages, so I assume that I don't need to add a solid state relay or such to control it. Am I correct that I would just need to upgrade my power supply to 24v and add a Hossen step down converter to handle 12v components?

The power input to the Rambo v1.3L has three input rails, all of which are rated 12v -35v:

A) Heated Bed
B) Logic, Heaters and Fans
C) Motors

So, I would change the power wiring into the Rambo so that rail "A" is getting 24v, and rails "B" and "C" would be receiving 12v from the step down converter.

I will be eventually upgrading the hotend to an E3D V6, and would then have to choose between 12v and 24v. Assuming that there is a benefit to 24v at the hot end, that would mean switching rail "B" over to 24v. At that time, what changes would need to be made for the logic and fans to function at the higher voltage?

Finally, are there any pros/cons to running rail "C" (motors) at 24v? Would that take any changes to accomplish?

Thanks!

Doug

[Jimustanguitar]

You can do that, yes. It's not quite that simple, though. Doubling the voltage quadruples the power (wattage) of that circuit. Some have done it with success, and others are wary of doing it because of the amount of heat that it puts into the board.

The more substantial way to do it is to use a DC-DC SSR (solid state relay) to do the switching, and just use the Rambo's heat connector as the triggering voltage.




To answer my own question that spawned this thread... I've decided to run 24VDC to everything, and to keep the 12V accessories (except for the hotend heater cartridge - that'll be 24v). I'm going to PID the fans and LEDs down to 12VDC. If it's as simple as changing a 255 in the firmware to a 127, that's the most painless way to do it, and I'll still enjoy the advantages of the higher voltage going to the steppers.

[DougLorenz]

What are you going to be using for a 24v power supply? I'm having trouble finding a reasonably priced 24v power supply that will put out more than 25A.

[3D-Print]

What do you guys think of having the Rambo or other board run a SSR which controls a "smaller" 24V power source for the print bed?

[IMBoring25]

Reasonably priced is relative. 30A at 24V is a significant amount of power and a less common requirement.

SSR on a separate PSU driving the heated bed is probably the more common approach. With two PSUs it would likely be far more difficult to integrate into the base if that matters to you.

[Eric]

What do you guys think of having the Rambo or other board run a SSR which controls a "smaller" 24V power source for the print bed?

There's nothing wrong with using a completely separate power supply for the bed heater if you want. "smaller" is another matter, depending on what you meant. The higher current requirements of the bed at 24V vs 12V haven't gone away.

[3D-Print]

So after reading the whole thread, for me it make it easy and most sense to power with a 24V power supply. Then run the bed with a SSR at 24V and the boards with 12V via the converter as Eagle mentioned. That way it fits in the base as IMBoring25 mentioned, especially if "smaller" one isn't really available. As well not to have troubles with the Duet set up with 24V as noted by others.

Does that sound like the most effective way to make it happen? Is a 30A, 24V system sufficient (I will scour the other threads)? Is there a consensus on the bed power supply to buy.

Thanks,

Addendum: I found this in a thread from some time ago. Still the cost effective version? (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Meanwell-Power- ... 1336598671" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

Or this most recent thread (http://www.progressiverc.com/chargery-s ... upply.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). This seems a bit more than needed.

[Jimustanguitar]

On my current printer, I had the bed on an SSR triggered by the Rambo board, and I had a pair of 12v automotive relays (trigger coils in series to make them 24VDC) that would run 12v to the bed from the ATX power supply, or automatically switch to the 24v suppley when I had it plugged in.

That worked great, but I got tired of carrying around the second power supply, so I ended up installing it in place of the ATX and running a 12v step down that went to the Rambo board. Still using the SSR, though. That's a keeper.


On this build, I'm only using a 24v 15A supply to juice my control board and steppers, I'm running an AC SSR and will use 110v bed heat...

[3D-Print]

Awesome! Thank you!

I like that idea and did find the heat resistant SSR that mhackney used (http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_ ... cts_id=288" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) without the heatsink.

What power supply did you settle on?

[Jimustanguitar]

It's pretty plain. http://goo.gl/SHhDzv" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[DeltaCon]

Maybe I misunderstood, Jim, but are you running the whole mikmak just on 15A?
Then why do SeeMe and most of the forumbrothers here advice a PSU around 30A?

[Jimustanguitar]

Maybe I misunderstood, Jim, but are you running the whole mikmak just on 15A?
Then why do SeeMe and most of the forumbrothers here advice a PSU around 30A?

The bed is not powered by that supply. That's the difference.

[dcfc_sandy]

I'm also a year later than planned looking at doing the 24v upgrade... After getting over the initial cursing and sobbing regarding how much more expensive all the components for it appear in the UK of course, I'm finally about to get everything.

I intend to run everything off a single 24v PSU the meanwell one in which everyone appears to get. One on eBay currently for £90 :'( and the SSR for the Bed.

In terms of the other two parts of the RAMBo B) Heaters, Logic and Fans and C) Motors. Is it possible to get these running without a Step down Converter? I know I have a 24v heater cartridge hidden away somewhere as I previously purchased the wrong one... I believe the motors should be able to handle the 24v and can I PID control 12v fans...? Assume logic is the actual board which is 12-35v rated.

Slight side note, the main reason for wanting this upgrade is issues with ABS warp. I have the glass with the PEI on it and can get to 90c before printing and then fluctuations between 82-86c and ABS prints just seem to have an inability to stick. Z height is pretty spot on, I have a 1st layer of 0.3 and printing the bed leveling tool I get between 0.27 and 0.3 actual. So will being able to hold 100c+ help here too?