PEI print bed surface experiments

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Nareikuk
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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Post by Nareikuk »

Yep it sounds like good stuff. I am just printing ABS at present to get this dialed in. I know it can be made to work, just need to figure out what I need to do to make the PEI want to stick to ABS. I might still not have the mechanical adjustments right, but then I'd expect even the glue stick to fail. There might be some contaminant on the PEI that I've not managed to clean off yet which is what I suspect most. I'd have thought the 1500 grit sandpaper to take care of that along with an acetone wipe down. IPA will arrive tomorrow so maybe that will help...

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mhackney
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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Post by mhackney »

You likely saw my post on Saturday. New piece of PEI from Amazon, simple cleaning with IPA and success on first print (PLA). I have printed ABS on it now. Yesterday we did a Kossel plate with the 0.4mm McMaster Carr for my son. He had to go back to school so we didn't have a chance to test it yet.

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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

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Yep,I read that in the middle of cursing my printer. Rubbed salt into the wound! The closest thing I could get to IPA was some IPA wipes, but they were only 70% IPA, no idea what the other 30% might be - probably some sort of disinfectant as I guess these are for pre-injection cleaning of the skin. I have 500ml of the stuff arriving tomorrow and will report back here if it works. I have the PEI all scrubbed down and glue removed ready for a polish with IPA.

BTW, I am trying to use the matt side of the plastic.

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mhackney
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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Post by mhackney »

The wipes are what I usually use. The 30% is water. The IPA is the disinfectant. But, sure IPA dissolves grease much better. The matte side is actually easier to use!

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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

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Cleaned and also re-sanded and re-cleaned using 99.9% IPA. NO luck getting ABS or PLA to stick particularly well. Good news is that the first layer is now looking really good and measures accurately - i.e. 0.25mm 1st layer measures as 0.25mm. Just need to figure out how to make this PEI stuff stick. May as well be printing on teflon for all the stickiness it's showing. More like slightly tacky would be the best way to describe it. PLA even lifts at a corner when printing a 50mm square box with 2mm thick sides.

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mhackney
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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

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Then something is not right. PEI will stick tenaciously to both ABS and PLA. The open weave spools I sell can't be printed on anything else without significant failure, with PEI I get a 100% yield. You say .25mm first layer, what is your nozzle diameter?

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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Post by Nareikuk »

I know this can be made to work, just don't know how. My nozzle diameter is 0.4mm.

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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

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Ok, try .2mm layer height. .25mm is a little large for a .4mm nozzle.

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Nareikuk
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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

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Will give that a go. Just to be clear, the first layer height is set to 0.25 with a normal layer height of 0.2. Will set the first layer to 0.2 and leave the other layers at 0.2 as well. I have the first layer width set to 0.3.

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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

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Ok, printed the first dozen or two layers after changing first layer height to 0.2.

Can't get the print off the print bed! How the hell did that happen? This was printing PLA because that happend to be what I last printed with when I got a lifted corner. All I did differently was to reduce the first layer height from 0.25mm to 0.2mm and I gave it yet another quick clean with IPA before printing. You may have completely solved the sticking problems with my PEI sheet :o Thank you so much.

Print has just released while typing this - just as expected when the bed cools down a bit. First layer looks perfect - I might try increasing the extrusion multiplier up from 0.9 back towards 1 to see when blobbing on first layer starts again. I'll give ABS a go tomorrow evening too.

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teoman
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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Post by teoman »

Try increasing your temperature.

I print at 115 degrees (according to the LCD) and i have an aluminum heat spreader under the glass.
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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Post by Nareikuk »

Teoman, I'll try that. I had gone up to about 90C, but will try higher temperatures. I used 60C for PLA and 85 for ABS, but happy to try higher. I doubt my bed will reach 115C, but I know it goes to 105C (eventually).

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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Post by mhackney »

I don't know why folks would have to print on such high temp beds. I print PLA at 55°C and ABS around 70°C. I have no issues, my temps are calibrated and I have an aluminum heat dissipator. I suspect there is another issue and high bed temp is a bandaid.

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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Post by JFettig »

ABS just won't stick at 70, or 80, or even 85 for me. 90C does the trick however! 100C makes the parts way too difficult to remove.

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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

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At 115 i have never had a problem. And when it cools down the part is just sitting on the bed. 0 adhesion.
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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

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I just find it odd that folks have different experiences for what should be the same surface with the same characteristics!

One thing that I do that might be a factor - when I start up, I let my heated bed equilibrate to make sure it is at temperature. Just because the thermistor reading is correct does not mean the actual surface is at temperature. Now that I have PEI on both sides of my glass, I have to wait a little extra.

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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Post by JFettig »

I'm sure it has something to do with thermister calibration and readings like you mention, your 24v bed heats up a lot faster and like you said, you leave it to warm up a little bit(I do the same, but mainly because it takes so long!), I'm sure it also has to do with materials and suppliers, possibly even colors.

How much ABS do you print? do you ever print stuff that isn't round? :P

I'm printing 2 candy cane looking things, the square ends are between 2 towers out a little ways and one of them lifted up and everything was well pre-heated. It doesn't help that its in the 'dip' between towers.

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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Post by 626Pilot »

mhackney wrote:I just find it odd that folks have different experiences for what should be the same surface with the same characteristics!

Maybe different vendors have different quality, purity, finish, etc. Maybe your heat spreader is the difference.

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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Post by mhackney »

I've purchased and installed 7 PEI beds from Amazon and Mcmaster Carr from 6 different orders over a 1 year period of time. They all work great. I thought maybe there was a change recently when folks seemed to have problems, but I bought a sheet from Amazon last week and it worked first time every time. I do have a very consistent bed temp with my 1/8" aluminum dissipator.


JFettig, I print a lot more PLA lately but I do print a fair amount of ABS. And yes, some things that aren't round! Almost everything in ABS is not in fact. Certainly the "dip" is going to lower adhesion of the first layer.

teoman, are you using a part/layer fan? If so when does it come on?

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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Post by 626Pilot »

Do you think one or two sheets of aluminum foil are good enough as a heat spreader? I had that setup last year, and it did seem to produce more even temps across the glass. I abandoned it because it got ripped too easily. If you tried a bunch of different PEI stock and always got the same results, maybe the heat spreader is key. Could be the center is "too sticky" and the periphery is "not sticky enough."

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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

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I don't think Al foil would be very effective but I haven't tested it. I did make a plate from 1/16" Al and it worked well but I don't know if anything thinner can conduct the heat fast enough and thereby might leave hot and cold spots. It would be an interesting experiment. Did you measure temps across the bed when you tried it?

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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

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I measured with my fingertip and it seemed more consistent. I know that's not very scientific, but it seemed to provide some improvement.

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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Post by teoman »

I have never had a layer fan or any other fan except the peek fan.
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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Post by tjb1 »

Is it possible to sand the smooth PEI surface? I notice you said you could do it on the already rough surface but no mention of the smooth other than buffing with a t-shirt to maintain the smooth surface.

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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

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You can but it will no longer be shiny. That's the only downside.

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