Print just stopping dead after about 1 hour.

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Flateric
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Print just stopping dead after about 1 hour.

Post by Flateric »

I'm starting to really get annoyed with a new habit my printer seems to have picked up over the last 2 weeks or so.

The print will just up and quit about 1 hour into it. No consistency no outside influence that I can see.

This is through the USB connection repetier host 90c.

Using kiss to generate the code or Slic3r generated code does not make any difference.

Firmware is currently the official seemecnc variant from the downloads on main page.

No odd behavior or any signs that the problem is going to occer before it does. Things will just be carrying on normally then just dead stop, printer is none responsive will not move or G28 until I have disconnected and re-connected or emergency stop reset. Then everything is normal again.

Computer is not being used for any other task at the time and no power saver or screen saver of any kind is kicking in.


Externally, there is no power drop related to the stoppage, no air compressor kicking in that causes a drop or anything.

I am stumped.

One observation I have made is that this problem does NOT occur ever when running Marlin firmware.

Anyone have any thoughts, ideas etc, I'll take anything for a try at this point.

Very Frustrated.
photo (90).JPG
Always about the same(ish) amount into the print too.
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Re: Print just stopping dead after about 1 hour.

Post by geneb »

The repetier firmware uses a binary protocol that might be more sensitive to noise on the USB cable. Do you see this problem when printing from the SD card? You might want to try moving your USB cable to keep it away from any AC power cords - or at least make sure if it crosses a power cord, it does so close to perpendicular.

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Re: Print just stopping dead after about 1 hour.

Post by Eaglezsoar »

This is the second or third time this problem has been reported on this forum. Symptoms are exactly what
Flateric has described. I am beginning to think that Repetier has a bug that has not yet been corrected.
As Flateric has indicated, the problem does not exist if he uses Marlin. I'm not sure how to search to see
how many times this has been reported to the Repetier support if anyone does know how to find out how
many times this has been reported could you let us know what the amount is?
I have found two other threads reporting symptoms very similar to what Flateric is experiencing:

http://forum.seemecnc.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=2336

http://forum.seemecnc.com/viewtopic.php?t=2144&p=15458
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Re: Print just stopping dead after about 1 hour.

Post by Flateric »

I just reverified that switching back to marlin and no issues of any kind at all now. Absolutely not one other thing was altered other than firmware flash.

And as an aside perk, the prints with marlin are dramatically fast (marlin = 6mins, repetier = 21mins for my test kitty print, although repetier was unable to conclude the print of course), and marlin was of much higher quality and more accurate. I realize what many will think, "Well settings, blah blah blah" But I have copied the variables to match between the two firmware as closely as I can manage in every way, right down to the delta radius etc, accel, jerk and so on.

I tried both the master release off seeme page and the very fresh development versions of repetier, same exact problems same qualities.

I am using the newest master marlin from git hub.

Pictures to come soon, a couple hours or so.
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Re: Print just stopping dead after about 1 hour.

Post by geneb »

Flateric, just for grins can you try the Repetier firmware, but use Pronterface to send the data to the printer? That would eliminate the Repetier binary protocol as a culprit.

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Re: Print just stopping dead after about 1 hour.

Post by Eaglezsoar »

Flateric wrote:I just reverified that switching back to marlin and no issues of any kind at all now. Absolutely not one other thing was altered other than firmware flash.

And as an aside perk, the prints with marlin are dramatically fast (marlin = 6mins, repetier = 21mins for my test kitty print, although repetier was unable to conclude the print of course), and marlin was of much higher quality and more accurate. I realize what many will think, "Well settings, blah blah blah" But I have copied the variables to match between the two firmware as closely as I can manage in every way, right down to the delta radius etc, accel, jerk and so on.

I tried both the master release off seeme page and the very fresh development versions of repetier, same exact problems same qualities.

I am using the newest master marlin from git hub.

Pictures to come soon, a couple hours or so.
It was recommended to use Repetier some time ago because it's actions were "smoother" compared to Marlin.
You have indicated that Marlin is faster, more accurate and of a higher quality. What about the movements of the Rostock? Perhaps they have changed Marlin enough that we
should give it serious consideration over Repetier. Your thoughts would be appreciated. One other thing, did Marlin recognize and initialize the LCD without changes?
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Re: Print just stopping dead after about 1 hour.

Post by Flateric »

Ok, here are the pics I had promised. The exact same gcode file was used to drive the prints from one test with marlin to the next test with repetier. Only changes were to flash the firmware and co-ordinate the various and many values between the two within each firmware. Understandably some tweaks could be made to both to improve upon the print specifically for each firmware. But more important was the testing to see if the firmware could complete the print without hanging. Marlin was more successful, well actually 100% successful, where repetier was only able to finish the one print of the bear without locking up completely.

I tried many different settings and variables over the course of 2 days. I did try various different baud rates and enabling ping-pong communication, as well as manually selecting binary and manually selecting ASCI. It just did not make a difference to preventing the lockups. I am open to the possibility that a setting withing repetier firmware is not set correctly and causing some type of overflow or communications issue that is beyond my knowledge of the topic. However I just really find it odd that everything was working so well for literally months for me and suddenly many issues. I orginally thought, oh great more hardware issues with my controller. But then I think marlin would have shown the same symptoms and problems in completion of prints would it not?

This first print is of a fan duct I was printing. both are from the same gcode file and yes both quit at about the same level. However the Marlin print in the background is clearly much better and more defined. The Marlin print was accidentially cancelled by a helpful cat on the keyboard that suddenly demanded love and attnetion and I mean now sort of thing, LOL.
photo(2).JPG
This print of a bear was completed by both firmware and is included simply to be complete. I believe that repetier completed this print solely due to the fact that it was not long enough a print to arrive at the lockup point. All very short quick prints complete. Only the longer and more involved print run long enough to have time to reach the lockup point. repetier is in the foreground and Marlin in the back.
photo (91).JPG

This cat print shows the two repetier prints that failed next to the Marlin print in the right side. An interesting point about these prints is that the two failed prints actually took twice as long to print as much as they did in comparison to the Marlin print which is of better quality and finished in half the time. I double checked the settings and all values were matched so I cannot explain this fully. The two repetier prints on the left were printed with 2 versions of repetier, the offical current seemecnc version and the middle one was printed with the newest Alpha development version of repetier (which is packed with TONS of wizzo cool new features and fun stuff so I really hope to be running it TBH)
photo (92).JPG
All of the above prints printed at a layer height of .1mm. Not all failed and successful prints are shown, various slicers were used for both firmware variants but when comparing, the same gcode generating file from the same slicer is only used for comparisons. For example kiss generated gcode file was the same file to produce the print on Marlin and Repetier, slic3r same dealio. And I also used Simplify creator 3d and the very newest Cura recently posted to our forums, labeled closed beta.

The new cura really impressed me with it's output gcode files and I will be giving it more attention than I have previously. It may be simple and have a limited feature set of adjustable user options, but they seem to have things right.

I also printed with cura and creator, but there were other variables and issues with these hosts (mostly due to my inexperience with them I fully admit) so only repetier host was used for the apples to apples comparisons of firmware.

To be honest I have always been firmly in the repetier firmware camp of believers, and although I did find marlin to be easier to flash and have it setup with less fuss (far less doming adjustments for me for some reason, it seemed to just work right from the get go) repetier seemed to have a nicer feature set and my machine audibly seemed to like it's movement routines better. Unfortunately these tests and the lockup issues with repetier make it a non-contender until I can figure out why it locks on me and why I am not getting as presentable a print out of it in any version out there. I am going to try jumping to my ramps board this evening from my rambo and see if the results are similar or if my Rambo is just being a bitch about repetier.

Any thoughts/suggestions/ideas or requests for tests or values will be welcomed.

Thanks for your time and thoughts on this weird situation guys!

Gord
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Re: Print just stopping dead after about 1 hour.

Post by Polygonhell »

Have you tried forcing the ASCII protocol in repetier?
He sets the top bit in the first byte to signify a binary command, but if that bit is corrupted, it used to cause issues much like you are describing, as the firmware waits for a retransmit, but expects ASCII rather than binary.
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Re: Print just stopping dead after about 1 hour.

Post by Flateric »

Ya, as described above I did try that. But I am thinking it must be a hardware issue specific to repetier, is this even possible? I have been printing the entire evening with first Marlin on this Rambo and then both repetier and Marlin on my ramps without issue.

Is it possible for my Rambo hardware to work just fine with Malin but not with repetier? Or is this a different problem.

I think I have been at this problem for so long I am starting to lose my prespective on it and feel like I am now guessing wildly in the dark but cannot come up with a clear path towards a solution.

I remember the issue with repetier locking way back just before seeme had adopted it. I thought this issue was completely resolved?
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Re: Print just stopping dead after about 1 hour.

Post by Eaglezsoar »

Polygonhell wrote:Have you tried forcing the ASCII protocol in repetier?
He sets the top bit in the first byte to signify a binary command, but if that bit is corrupted, it used to cause issues much like you are describing, as the firmware waits for a retransmit, but expects ASCII rather than binary.
Polygonhell, how do you force the ASCII protocol in repetier?
Why would this be necessary? Some have problems, some don't.
Flateric has indicated that Marlin doesn't exhibit the same problem.
It is all very confusing to me, Repetier had the best reputation among the users of the Rostock Max
now we have received three reports on this forum alone that Repetier has the problem with stopping.
There seems to be a problem in Repetier that needs to be acknowledged then fixed.
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Re: Print just stopping dead after about 1 hour.

Post by Flateric »

You can select protocol type as "Auto", "Repetier binary" or "ascii" in the printer connection control panel.

Let's not jump all over repetier being a failing until we actually know that to be true. In the past it was a bug that caused the lockups, that was apparently addressed (maybe?)

It could still end up being my hardware here, I don't know at all as of yet and would hate to cause any other users to make decisions to change to Marlin or Repetier until I have all the facts and can present them in a repeatable form, them allowing educated choices to be arrived at.
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Re: Print just stopping dead after about 1 hour.

Post by Eaglezsoar »

Flateric wrote:You can select protocol type as "Auto", "Repetier binary" or "ascii" in the printer connection control panel.

Let's not jump all over repetier being a failing until we actually know that to be true. In the past it was a bug that caused the lockups, that was apparently addressed (maybe?)

It could still end up being my hardware here, I don't know at all as of yet and would hate to cause any other users to make decisions to change to Marlin or Repetier until I have all the facts and can present them in a repeatable form, them allowing educated choices to be arrived at.
I agree that we should not jump all over Repetier at this point however there are more and more reports of the same failings that you experienced that I have already provided
links for. If we should start to see a pattern, and perhaps we already are, something must be done because I have no desire to switch to Marlin.
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Re: Print just stopping dead after about 1 hour.

Post by geneb »

I still want to see how it does printing from the SD Card.

Also, if you haven't tried it yet - print from Pronterface.

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Re: Print just stopping dead after about 1 hour.

Post by Polygonhell »

File a bug on the main repetier GitHub, he's pretty responsive, but you'll need to give him enough information to reproduce it.

It could well be a repetier issue, but it seems odd that only 3 people are reporting it, unless John has changed the version he's synced to, or there is something else contributing. Everyone is using Rambo electronics and everyone is running a delta bot, with similar if not identical settings.

Have you tried copying the offending files to SDCard, from repetier host? This exercises the parsing code independent of the motor code, if that fails, it would at least be an indicator if the issue is in the parsing code. Is there anything in the log when it stops working?

If you use Marlin, repetier host behaves a little differently, so it might not be a bad idea to try a print from pronterface.
All these open source projects go through phases of stability/instability, that's why I won't upgrade firmware without a very good reason, and I'm especially wary about taking the latest unreleased anything.
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Re: Print just stopping dead after about 1 hour.

Post by Christian79 »

I had the problem on large prints. My solution was to print from the SD card and I have not had any issues since. And yes the SD card prints of the same sliced file worked when that file would fail hooked to my MAC.
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Re: Print just stopping dead after about 1 hour.

Post by Flateric »

No crashing yet when using pronterface. I'm on my 3rd test print, so we'll wait a few more before we call it a for sure.
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Re: Print just stopping dead after about 1 hour.

Post by Eaglezsoar »

Flateric wrote:No crashing yet when using pronterface. I'm on my 3rd test print, so we'll wait a few more before we call it a for sure.
Have you come up with a solution instead of using pronterface all the time? I am glad that you isolated it to the host instead of the firmware, just
wondering what a long term solution would be.
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Re: Print just stopping dead after about 1 hour.

Post by karlo »

Similar issues here. After a couple of failed prints, I have resorted to always printing from SD. No issues after that.
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Re: Print just stopping dead after about 1 hour.

Post by Flateric »

No issue with sd card, but some progress with repetier host.

If you have ever locked mid print, you owe it to yourself to go and get a high quality USB cord. It did make a difference for me. Also forcing ASCII has helped a fair bit as well. However, lockups still occur. Just had one right now.

I still cannot explain why in the past I had zero issues however.
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Re: Print just stopping dead after about 1 hour.

Post by lordbinky »

Maybe you can try a new cable from monoprice of exactly the length you need, since shorter is better for minimizing noise.
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Re: Print just stopping dead after about 1 hour.

Post by Flateric »

I almost forgot!

One benefit of forcing the ascii mode is that sometimes the freeze or halt is more of a "really long" break your printer is taking. Wait up to 10 minutes and it often starts up again as if nothing happened.

Can someone explain why the "HE double hockey sticks" this would happen?
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Re: Print just stopping dead after about 1 hour.

Post by geneb »

One of the issues with USB is going to be line noise - any electrical interference can play holy hell with the data stream going to the printer and the acks coming back. Imagine having a dirty phone line back in the dial-up BBS days. Same deal. This is why a lot of people (myself included) would much rather see an Ethernet based printer over a USB one.

Keep the USB cable away from AC power cables as best you can. You can also help damp out noise by looping the USB cable through a ferrite choke (similar to this: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index ... Id=2103222 - my personal preference is a few loops through a donut shaped choke instead of the clip-ons).

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Re: Print just stopping dead after about 1 hour.

Post by kbob »

Flateric wrote:I almost forgot!

One benefit of forcing the ascii mode is that sometimes the freeze or halt is more of a "really long" break your printer is taking. Wait up to 10 minutes and it often starts up again as if nothing happened.

Can someone explain why the "HE double hockey sticks" this would happen?
If you write software, what I'm about to say will probably make sense. If not, sorry for the gibberish. (-:

I've seen this kind of behavior where a variable believed to be small positive goes negative, or an unsigned variable goes huge. Here's a simple example.

Code: Select all

    uint32_t var;
    ...
    while (var > threshold) {
        do_something();
        --var;
    }
Normally, var enters that loop with a value not much bigger than threshold, it iterates a few times, then moves on. But every once in a while, var gets miscalculated and set to a negative value. But it's unsigned, so it stores, say, -3 as 4294967293. Then it spends a long time in that loop.

If that was happening, and it took 10 minutes to get unstuck, then the loop is only a couple of clock ticks long. If it were a 16 bit variable instead of 32 bits, it would be more like 100,000 clock ticks, plenty of time do get into all sorts of mischief.

Are you certain that it only comes unstuck in ASCII mode? That would make a good bug report right there -- it's a bug that happens in both binary and ASCII, but recovers in ASCII. Have you talked to the Repetier developers yet?

Also, if you can get a better estimate of the time it's stuck for, that would help too.

It's also possible that the bug is in an interrupt routine, and it's locking out the serial port for 10 minutes. It just happens that the ASCII protocol recovers from that, but the binary one doesn't. Heck, at this point just about anything is possible.

This feels just a little too repeatable to be electrical noise, especially when Marlin fixes it completely.
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Re: Print just stopping dead after about 1 hour.

Post by Flateric »

Further messing around has also proven that if "ping pong" communication is turned on I do not get the locks. Have not tried this in binary yet, frankly I'm sick of not finishing prints and would like a few success again.
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Re: Print just stopping dead after about 1 hour.

Post by lordbinky »

Damnit, now mine is doing this. Guess I better start following Flateric's footsteps. I'm going to have to figure out the SD card thing, it pisses me off using repetier to load it to the SD card, takes foooorreeeeevvvveeeerrr....
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