Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount. RELEASED!

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bvandiepenbos
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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount.

Post by bvandiepenbos »

I prefer M3 over 4-40 screws.
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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount.

Post by travelphotog »

bvandiepenbos wrote:I prefer M3 over 4-40 screws.



I can tap your spacers to M3 if you would like me to. I had thought to go with 4-40 on the idea that if a screw was lost a simple trip to a decent hardware store could replace a 4-40 while M3 screws are sometimes much harder to track down locally. I can go either way. Any votes on Metric or SAE sizes guys? Either 4-40 or M3? Which ever we decide I will use moving forward.
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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount.

Post by nitewatchman »

I find that this arrangement works well for me. Very simple, very straight forward. The E3D Hot End is clamped to the Yellow Jacket Plate with the inner three holes and the Yellow Jacket Plate is clamped to the Effector with the outer three holes.
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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount.

Post by bvandiepenbos »

travelphotog wrote:
bvandiepenbos wrote:I prefer M3 over 4-40 screws.



I can tap your spacers to M3 if you would like me to. I had thought to go with 4-40 on the idea that if a screw was lost a simple trip to a decent hardware store could replace a 4-40 while M3 screws are sometimes much harder to track down locally. I can go either way. Any votes on Metric or SAE sizes guys? Either 4-40 or M3? Which ever we decide I will use moving forward.


Either is fine with me, I was mainly thinking about users outside the USA not able to get SAE easy, or at all.
Most any local hardware, Lowes, Menards etc. around me has metric screws.

you already bought 4-40 for this project, right? so just go with those for now.
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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount.

Post by travelphotog »

nitewatchman wrote:I find that this arrangement works well for me. Very simple, very straight forward. The E3D Hot End is clamped to the Yellow Jacket Plate with the inner three holes and the Yellow Jacket Plate is clamped to the Effector with the outer three holes.



I have seen this way and understand it works well for those who like an under slung hotend. I wanted to keep mine mounted up higher as I need every inch of print height I can get as most of the prints I need my Max for are 13-14" tall. I also wanted a system without any nuts to deal with when changing heads or putting on a dial indicator for calibration. I also do not own a Yellowjacket yet ( though I do plan to pick up a few now so I can switch out my V6 and Volcano with less hassle ). So for me when I sat down to make my mount I was thinking along the lines of making it easier to change things out. I admit I was also looking for an excuse to put carbon fiber spacers on my Max. Once I started down that path I choose to mill out as much of the material as I felt would leave behind a strong mount and with with lighter hardware to share weight off the effector plate area. I have in mind to do much the same at some point to the cheap skates, either with trick trucks or seeing how badly I can mess it up on my own.
http://713maker.com/ Custom aluminum and carbon fiber hot end mounts for the Rostock Max and Orion.

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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount.

Post by Jimustanguitar »

I'd actually prefer M3 as well, but both are easily acquired and it doesn't really matter in the end.

What thread sizes are used for the other parts?

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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount.

Post by Jimustanguitar »

Hey NiteWatchman, what's that look like from below? I'm curious how much clearance there is through the hole in the effector platform. I actually thought that it wouldn't clear the heater wires and thermistor connector so I've never tried it.

Either way though, I'll happily spend the extra weight if it means that I have more carbon fiber :) If I did the underslung design like that, I think I'd want to create a new effector platform that mounts to the hot-end directly anyway.

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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount.

Post by travelphotog »

bvandiepenbos wrote:
travelphotog wrote:
bvandiepenbos wrote:I prefer M3 over 4-40 screws.



I can tap your spacers to M3 if you would like me to. I had thought to go with 4-40 on the idea that if a screw was lost a simple trip to a decent hardware store could replace a 4-40 while M3 screws are sometimes much harder to track down locally. I can go either way. Any votes on Metric or SAE sizes guys? Either 4-40 or M3? Which ever we decide I will use moving forward.


Either is fine with me, I was mainly thinking about users outside the USA not able to get SAE easy, or at all.
Most any local hardware, Lowes, Menards etc. around me has metric screws.

you already bought 4-40 for this project, right? so just go with those for now.



Really it would be pretty easy to have both. I can put up a M3 tap and getting a hold of the screws over the net is easy enough. Since it does not really change the spacer cap aside from the hole size, it will still fit in my tap jig which is all I really care about. I am still wrapping my head around the idea of interest in the mount and such. I just did want to get away from the thicker screws and try to go as small as I felt I could.

But moving forward I can stock the 4-40 and the M3. With the new spacer I need to reorder the correct sized titanium screws anyway so I can look into grabbing M3 screws then also.
http://713maker.com/ Custom aluminum and carbon fiber hot end mounts for the Rostock Max and Orion.

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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount.

Post by travelphotog »

Jimustanguitar wrote:I'd actually prefer M3 as well, but both are easily acquired and it doesn't really matter in the end.

What thread sizes are used for the other parts?



Everything I had designed was on 4-40 from the whole thing. The 4-40 screws with a flat head and slanted base center the screw just right in the bottom of the effector plate holes. I used button head flat bottomed 4-40 screws on the top carbon fiber mounts and also for the V6 locking ring.

I am guessing m3x0.5 screws are what you guys are wanting?
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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount.

Post by bvandiepenbos »

yes M3 x .5 pitch
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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount.

Post by nitewatchman »

travelphotog wrote:
nitewatchman wrote:I find that this arrangement works well for me. Very simple, very straight forward. The E3D Hot End is clamped to the Yellow Jacket Plate with the inner three holes and the Yellow Jacket Plate is clamped to the Effector with the outer three holes.



I have seen this way and understand it works well for those who like an under slung hotend. I wanted to keep mine mounted up higher as I need every inch of print height I can get as most of the prints I need my Max for are 13-14" tall. I also wanted a system without any nuts to deal with when changing heads or putting on a dial indicator for calibration. I also do not own a Yellowjacket yet ( though I do plan to pick up a few now so I can switch out my V6 and Volcano with less hassle ). So for me when I sat down to make my mount I was thinking along the lines of making it easier to change things out. I admit I was also looking for an excuse to put carbon fiber spacers on my Max. Once I started down that path I choose to mill out as much of the material as I felt would leave behind a strong mount and with with lighter hardware to share weight off the effector plate area. I have in mind to do much the same at some point to the cheap skates, either with trick trucks or seeing how badly I can mess it up on my own.

I swap out the entire effector. Unplug the harness, uncouple the Bowden tube and remove the arms. Quick change to effector with dial indicator, or back to the SeeMe Hot End just requires resetting the z height.

Moving to mag arms soon and it will be even simpler.

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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount.

Post by travelphotog »

nitewatchman wrote:
travelphotog wrote:
nitewatchman wrote:I find that this arrangement works well for me. Very simple, very straight forward. The E3D Hot End is clamped to the Yellow Jacket Plate with the inner three holes and the Yellow Jacket Plate is clamped to the Effector with the outer three holes.



I have seen this way and understand it works well for those who like an under slung hotend. I wanted to keep mine mounted up higher as I need every inch of print height I can get as most of the prints I need my Max for are 13-14" tall. I also wanted a system without any nuts to deal with when changing heads or putting on a dial indicator for calibration. I also do not own a Yellowjacket yet ( though I do plan to pick up a few now so I can switch out my V6 and Volcano with less hassle ). So for me when I sat down to make my mount I was thinking along the lines of making it easier to change things out. I admit I was also looking for an excuse to put carbon fiber spacers on my Max. Once I started down that path I choose to mill out as much of the material as I felt would leave behind a strong mount and with with lighter hardware to share weight off the effector plate area. I have in mind to do much the same at some point to the cheap skates, either with trick trucks or seeing how badly I can mess it up on my own.

I swap out the entire effector. Unplug the harness, uncouple the Bowden tube and remove the arms. Quick change to effector with dial indicator, or back to the SeeMe Hot End just requires resetting the z height.

Moving to mag arms soon and it will be even simpler.


Yeah for me that is not such a good option since from day one I had the tricklaser arms (which I LOVE!) but one thing for sure, those things are a bear and a half to put on the effector plate. I am guessing the stock ares are far simpler to change out like you talk about. Part of me wishes they were that easy to change out but I love them so much that I am cool with not messing with them and going these route.
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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount.

Post by nitewatchman »

Jimustanguitar wrote:Hey NiteWatchman, what's that look like from below? I'm curious how much clearance there is through the hole in the effector platform. I actually thought that it wouldn't clear the heater wires and thermistor connector so I've never tried it.

Either way though, I'll happily spend the extra weight if it means that I have more carbon fiber :) If I did the underslung design like that, I think I'd want to create a new effector platform that mounts to the hot-end directly anyway.

Actually fits quite nicely. The E3D without the fan and mounted to the Yellow Jacket Plate drops easily through the SeeMe Effector. The Thermistor connector is tucked away and can be a little tedious to plug in but it is not so bad. The hot end wires and the top socket solder connection fits as well. I also used the same Screw-in Thermistor on the E3D that I use on the SeeMe Hotend so the two Hotends can be swapped back and forth without having to reset the EEPROMs. Biggest change I need to make is to throw the clamp back in the Tormach and open up the hole that Bowden tube passes through, it is a little awkward to release the tube clamp.

I like the underslung Hotend. It provides clearance to see what is going on at the business end of the nozzle. I have a ring LED that fits nicely to the effector (not on in the photo) and three extended layer fans that mount conventionally to the three tab SeeMe Effector Plate. I was initially concerned that if the nozzle tip were positioned substantially below the arm pivots of the effector that the stability would be affected. This has proven to be a bigger theoretical issue than a real problem.

The underslung Hotend loses about 37mm of height, my machine envelop is currently ~357mm with the effector parked at home. If I require additional height I can change back to the conventionally mounted SeeMe Hotend. I think that I will lose some more height when changing to magnetic arms, I will initially extend the arm length to 300mm rather than 269mm to gain stability at large diameters.

This works for me, of course YMMV and some people prefer possum over groundhog for Sunday dinner.

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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount.

Post by travelphotog »

It has really been one of "those" days today so I am sorry this update is so late in coming. Here is what the spacers look like fresh off the mill.
2015-01-08 01.09.24.jpg

And here is on the E3d
2015-01-08 00.50.02.jpg

And the stock hotend
2015-01-08 00.56.55.jpg
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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount.

Post by jdurand »

Are those spacers milled from a plate? I ask because we got a small lathe for doing things like that, hadn't really considered milling them.
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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount.

Post by travelphotog »

jdurand wrote:Are those spacers milled from a plate? I ask because we got a small lathe for doing things like that, hadn't really considered milling them.



Yes since I do not have a lathe I had no choice but to mill them from plate. Overall they go fast and are not too hard to mill. I plan on getting a lathe later but I have so little need for it overall.
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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount.

Post by travelphotog »

We all know what these are for..

2015-01-08 15.15.33.jpg
2015-01-08 15.25.16.jpg


So in about an hour so so we will see if we get any good results.
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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount.

Post by Jassper »

That's a nice work space you got set up there by the way. I to have the slotted tables on both Shapeoko's, in fact I think I got the info from one of you other post.
Thanks for sharing.
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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount.

Post by travelphotog »

Jassper wrote:That's a nice work space you got set up there by the way. I to have the slotted tables on both Shapeoko's, in fact I think I got the info from one of you other post.
Thanks for sharing.



Anytime and thank you! The work space was a gift from my fiance who is a NASA engineer so she understands how nice a good work space can be. I need to add a vacuum system to the mill and also get it enclosed so I can keep things cleaner and work in deeper material with smaller endmills and not have to attend it so much to avoid breakages. But first I have to enclose my vacuum cleaner and do some house routing. I also need to mill out my end stop switch holders once I decide which ones I want to try next.. These tend to throw a false hit every 10-15 hours of mill time which crashes what ever job I have running when they are no where near a trip zone.


Have you guys milled much aluminum on the on your Shapeokos? I am very interest to see how the two spindles compare side by side with the same endmill in 6061.
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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount.

Post by travelphotog »

Before
2015-01-08 15.11.34.jpg

After 2Hrs in debur compound
2015-01-08 18.12.34.jpg

2015-01-08 18.12.jpg

Running a polishing cycle now.

in 2-3 hrs should have something more to show.
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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount.

Post by Nareikuk »

travelphotog wrote:Any votes on Metric or SAE sizes guys? Either 4-40 or M3? Which ever we decide I will use moving forward.


I vote M3 - getting those weird sizes imperial sizes is a pain :-)

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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount.

Post by Khalid Khattak »

I dont know what software you are using or what sorta endmill /bevel tool you are using / rigidity of machine but you can improve your finish by 1st rough machining leaving stock 0.3mm and then final profile path cutting the 0.3mm with high spindle RPM and slow feed.

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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount.

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Khalid Khattak wrote:I dont know what software you are using or what sorta endmill /bevel tool you are using / rigidity of machine but you can improve your finish by 1st rough machining leaving stock 0.3mm and then final profile path cutting the 0.3mm with high spindle RPM and slow feed.



It is a shapeoko 2 which is not very rigid for milling aluminum. I also cut these pretty fast as beta prototypes. I will be redoing my toolpaths and trying to smooth everything out as best I can on the finals. This piece I used in the tumbler shots was done with a new endmill I was trying out and I pretty much took to big of a cut and it chattered on me which is what I get for trying too deep of a cut at too fast of speed with aluminum on a Shapeoko. It was too aggressive of a cut and the mill made sure to show it as you can see. Thank you for the milling advice and I will be doing a SLOW final cut on the next round of prototypes. I just got too greedy and tried to cut faster and deep with a new mill instead of sticking with what I should have. I am really pushing the limit (past it really) of what a Shaoeoko with belt driven axis should be milling over all. I am hoping later this year to pick up a much more rigid CNC mill. I have only have the Shapeoko for about 4 months and before this I had never done anything with a CNC mill or any milling of any sort. I am very much learning as I go along and I am always open to any advise to help me learn more.
Last edited by travelphotog on Fri Jan 09, 2015 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount.

Post by Jassper »

travelphotog wrote:
Anytime and thank you! The work space was a gift from my fiance who is a NASA engineer so she understands how nice a good work space can be. I need to add a vacuum system to the mill and also get it enclosed so I can keep things cleaner and work in deeper material with smaller endmills and not have to attend it so much to avoid breakages. But first I have to enclose my vacuum cleaner and do some house routing. I also need to mill out my end stop switch holders once I decide which ones I want to try next.. These tend to throw a false hit every 10-15 hours of mill time which crashes what ever job I have running when they are no where near a trip zone.


Have you guys milled much aluminum on the on your Shapeokos? I am very interest to see how the two spindles compare side by side with the same endmill in 6061.


We haven't tried alum yet but want to now that I see you are doing it slow speed and taking very little at a time I take it. So far I have only done plastic and MDF. Where do you buy your end mills from? I'm looking for a good 1mm for doing text in plexi
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Re: Aluminum and carbon fiber E3d V6 mount.

Post by nitewatchman »

Jassper wrote:Where do you buy your end mills from? I'm looking for a good 1mm for doing text in plexi

You might want to check into this type of cutter. http://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-3-175mm-C ... 27f62e7f44 I have found them to work infinitely better than small endmills at a fraction of the cost.

I use these in various sizes to letter everything from tools to machined parts to AR-15 Lowers. My Tormach is limited to 5140 RPMs so I run the cutters at 5000 RPM and about 5 IPM. The photo below shows the information I put on a 65-45-12 Ductile Iron casting. The letters are cut 0.015" to 0.020" deep (0.4mm to 0.5mm) and I get 300 to 400 parts per cutter, cycle time is about 2 minutes. The text code is developed by one of the Wizards included in Mach 3.

These come directly from the PRC by mail and require about 10 days to 2 weeks to arrive. I keep 50 or 60 on hand ranging from 0.1mm to 1.0mm tip diameters. When a small one dulls or breaks, you can easily grind the tip to a larger diameter size.

Hope this helps.
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