Dual extruders

[LorenOlepi]

First Print = different support
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5EwPDhGvxs

Did you try dissolving the HIPS with limonene yet?

In process as I just got the limonene in yesterday. Any tips? I would like to be able to thin it out some how since it was so expensive.

[LorenOlepi]

Just gave the first print that had the hips support a bath in limonene. It didn't come out clean as a whistle but it did melt the support material. I ended up getting a 100% pure limonene and think it could be diluted because it "melted" the ABS similar to an acetone vapor bath and it only took about 2 hours to dissolve the HIPS were I read it could take 24 hours. I tried using some other citrus based cleaners that were about 5% limonene on the raw hips material but it had no effect, so there is still a lot of room for testing.

Note: it could be that my ABS filament is crap and thats why it melted because I have had a difficult time with this role of black (kinda why I wasted it on the test). I suppose I can test it on a good roll

PS: Don't mind the poor print quality...it was the first print with duals. The machine is nice and calibrated now

[Broose]

Nice.

With regards to diluting, I saw this post (https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic ... Os3lmLrgbo):
"I just received a gallon of the limonene, and tried to see if it
really does dissolve the HIPS filament. It dissolved it completely in
under four hours. I also put some filament in a cleaning solution I
made with about 1/4 cup of limonene, a squirt of Dawn dish washing
liquid, and 1 3/4 cups water. The filament dissolved in under six
hours in that. "

[krak]

I have worked with other support dissolving devices that heat the water bath up to 70C and circulate the water. This might also work for you reduce the time the parts needs to remain in the bath.

[LorenOlepi]

I have worked with other support dissolving devices that heat the water bath up to 70C and circulate the water. This might also work for you reduce the time the parts needs to remain in the bath.

Cool what kind of material ... I just printed out 4 test hubert cubes with HIPS support material and plan on running different test on them by the end of the week . I will report back my findings

[Generic Default]

I'm just wondering if you changed your firmware in any way other than what you listed in this thread. I'm trying to get dual extruders working, but every time I set the NUM_EXTRUDERS variable to 2, nothing will work. The fan won't spin, the steppers for the extruders don't work, and the heaters don't work either.

I tried changing all of the variables you listed and I also changed the stuff for Foshon's dual extrusion thread.

Help please!

[LorenOlepi]

Did you change the pin setting that neochrome found? On page 2 of this thread?

[Generic Default]

Yep, I did all of the changes from earlier in this thread and from Foshon's thread. As soon as I upload the firmware with NUM_EXTRUDERS set at 2, it doesn't work.
The LCD screen doesn't display any temperatures (neither does the repetier host control panel), and I can't move any motors.
If I set it back to NUM_EXTRUDERS 1 and re-upload the firmware, the temperatures show up on the LCD and the control panel and I can move the motors.
Switching to 2 extruders in the repetier host printer options lets me switch between them, except the buttons control the temperature and motor of extruder 1 only regardless of which extruder I have selected in the control panel. It doesn't show the temperature of the 2nd extruder's thermistor, only the 1st one. The hotend and case fans don't work now that I switched the fan pin to #define EXT0_EXTRUDER_COOLER_PIN 8 in the configuration file.

I tried reinstalling the firmware from the seemecnc download page, but that didn't help. Basically, nothing is working right when I set NUM_EXTRUDERS to 2.
I attached genebs picture of the wiring with my current wiring setup annotated. Tell me if I'm doing something wrong!

[LorenOlepi]

Attached you will find my latest configuration and pin file... note that I also changed some other settings like turning off the beep (did it every tool change) and the preheat temps. If you find differences from what was posted please share back with the community so they too can run the duals
Note your offsets may be different depending on how you set yours up

Configuration.h

(48.1 KiB) Downloaded 350 times

pins.h

(34.67 KiB) Downloaded 307 times

In Repetier host go to config --> prninter --> number of extruders = 2

In slic3r endure you have it set to 2 extruders in printer settings and put in your offsets as well

Also here is what I have for my Start G-code in slic3r under printer settings --> custom G-code. This is because if you start switching between t1 and t2 when its homed the height gets messed up and will hit the bed. Having the tool change lower then home will allow it to switch around properly

G28 ; home all axes
G1 Z270 F500 ; brings to a safe zone to switch T0 and T1

Good luck....
s

[LorenOlepi]

Also make sure to go through all of your eeprom settings in reptier host... heres a snap shot of mine

[Generic Default]

Thanks for posting your firmware files! I uploaded them to my rostock, but unfortunately nothing works when I have NUM_EXTRUDERS set to two. I couldn't control the extruder motors or heaters, but the effector plate did move into the offset position when I switched between extruder 1 and 2 in repetier host.

As soon as I switched to NUM_EXTRUDERS 1, everything started working again.

Did you have to change your rambo wiring in any way besides plugging in the new thernistor input and stepper motor cord?


I think it's something wrong with the firmware still. As soon as I set NUM_EXTRUDERS to 2, the red lights on the rambo stop working for the heaters and stuff, which means there is no signal being sent to those pins. The LCD temperatures read def/ 0 degrees instead of 25.5/0 degrees like they do when NUM_EXTRUDERS is set to 1. I'm using the exact same firmware on the exact same version of the rambo board, but we are getting completely different results.

?????????????

Without a support material extruder, rostocks are pretty limited in build-able part geometry. I've been trying to make a few simple cylindrical pieces that could easily be made on a cnc lathe since the beginning of the summer, but one thing after another keeps popping up and preventing me from making stuff. I really hope I get these dual extruders working soon!

Thank you for helping me and everyone who is also trying to get dual extruders set up.

[LorenOlepi]

Generic... wish I knew but this is all I got.
Seems that something must be up with your connections/wiring

[Generic Default]

Could you take a look at the picture a few posts up and just check that it's the same as your wiring?

Also I just noticed that with your configuration and pin file, the fans only turn on when the extruder heat is active. My fans are connected to the Fan 0 output on the rambo. Before your firmware the fan could be turned on whether or not the heater was active.

[LorenOlepi]

The pic looks correct... as far as the fan goes I don't see it as a problem. Why would you want it on when there is no heat anyway?

[foshon]

def/0 means your thermistor is defective. It puts rep host into dry run to stop from melting your hot end. You have either a connection in the wrong place or a bad connection.

[Generic Default]

I have two thermistors plugged into the connectors in that picture. Both of them work fine when I have NUM_EXTRUDERS set to 1. When I set it to two, the LCD says def/0.

So the thermistors definitely aren't defective, and they are connected to the right thing. Why does switching the NUM_EXTRUDERS to 2 cause this to happen? Are they being switched to a different pin or something?

[Generic Default]

Problem solved! (I think)

After switching all of the E2 components (heater, thermistor, motor) to the E1 plug slots, I saw that all of them worked except the thermistor. After a bunch of failed continuity testing I narrowed it down to a white wire. It turns out that all of my problems were caused by a discontinuous thermistor crimp. I bought a ribbon of 40 crimped single female pin wires from amazon and some of them are defective.

Now that I can control both motors and both thermistors it seems to be working fine. It looks like dual extruders are going to work for me! FINALLY!

Thank you to everyone who helped me out here.

[designfactore]

Hey guys,

Also just got dual extrusion going thanks to you all! Has anyone figured out how to turn off the annoying chirping from the LED panel piezo that happens on each extruder change during printing? Hehe, hopefully that makes sense to someone!

[Generic Default]

#define FEATURE_BEEPER false

In the configuration file. That will disable it completely; if you just want to turn off the extruder switch beep, you will probably have to search through all of the firmware files for it.

[designfactore]

Thanks GD!

So I'm running into a different issue with Repetier/Slic3r and dual extruders, this time regarding support material.

When I set the support material to extruder2, Slic3r does this funky thing where it generates support material starting below the virtual print bed. If I set it back to extruder1, it does not.

I don't have some odd Z offset setting for extruder2. I tried this on a Vista PC and new Mac, and found the same issue.

Anyone else run into this? It's a problem because at printtime, the firmware prints the "underground layers" all at the bed surface, while non-support layers keep advancing up. Weird to see the hotend move back DOWN to the bed for support and then back up to the model.

[designfactore]

I figured it out on my own, a head's up worth knowing about:

The issue is with dual extruders and having any amount of "Lift Z" in Slic3r>Printer Settings>Extruder1.

Settings that to zero solves the problem.

Bummer, the Lift Z is needed to prevent some "ooze" issues with having two hotends waving over your printing.

[Generic Default]

It looks like you're further ahead of me with dual extruders!

I printed my own triple extruder effector and mounting pieces so now I have an E3d and a seemecnc hotend on mine. The problem I'm running into now is with leveling. My nozzle tips are at the same level in the middle of the build plate, but as they move toward a tower, the tower side of the effector gets tilted down at a very slight angle. The angle is too small to see by eyeball (<1 degree) but it can add a Z height difference between the nozzles of about 0.7mm toward the edge of the build plate.

Since the effector side toward the tower is pitched down, it must mean that the cheapskate on that tower is too low. Is there any firmware setting that changes this? I've been playing with delta radius and diagonal arm length for the last two hours, but neither one seems to do anything.

I have magnetic arms that are 283.75mm +-0.05mm from ball end to ball end, which after subtracting the 0.375 inch ball, means that my exact arm length is 274.23 mm.
I have the arm length set in the firmware to 268.3 mm, which is a lot shorter than 274.23 but it's giving me the correct tolerances on printed stuff. I don't understand why my firmware values have to be 6mm shorter than reality, but that's the only way I can get dimensionally accurate parts.

Has anyone else had this problem? It seems like it's impossible to print with dual extruders when the effector plate is tilting towards the towers.


EDIT;

I think it might be that the towers aren't parallel. The arms are the same, the radius is calibrated, the scale is calibrated, the nozzles are level.....
Can anyone confirm that badly aligned towers would cause the effector to tilt? I'll have to figure out a way to align them perfectly if that's the reason.

[Generic Default]

It's been two weeks since I've had all of the supplies for dual extruders and I still don't have it working! I bought a square to get the towers perpendicular, and now that they are perpendicular, I still have the nozzle level problem. It seems that every time I move the effector platform towards or away from the Z tower, the effector platform tilts on a roll axis parallel to the Y axis of the machine. So since one extruder is on the right side of the Z tower and the other extruder is on the left, they move up and down relative to each other a lot, around one millimeter over the distance of the build plate.

I'm also noticing that towards the edge of the build plate, manually moving the X axis with the LCD panel causes the nozzle to raise or lower about 1/2 a millimeter from the build plate in a single step ( the Z height changes by 1/2 mm when the X position changes by 1/2 mm).

[designfactore]

Hey GD,

If you still suspect that one cheapskate is too low, maybe you just need to adjust the end stop on that one tower. Turn the endstop adjustment screw clockwise to effectively raise the Cheapskate in relation to the other two, or turn the screw counterclockwise to lower the Cheapskate

[krak]

I have worked with other support dissolving devices that heat the water bath up to 70C and circulate the water. This might also work for you reduce the time the parts needs to remain in the bath.

Cool what kind of material ... I just printed out 4 test hubert cubes with HIPS support material and plan on running different test on them by the end of the week . I will report back my findings

Sorry I missed the post. The material is listed as "ABS-like" and the support is not listed by a name. I believe the support material is HIPS, and the solvent is a type of critic acid. I plan on testing it with limonene when I get a few free cycles.

Here is a good aritcle using HIPS and limonene, but I guess you guys already know most of this:
http://www.3dppvd.org/wp/2013/02/solubl ... -material/