Arghh! ABS is so hrd!

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dseebauer
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Arghh! ABS is so hrd!

Post by dseebauer »

I've been trying to get a few ABS pieces printed for days now and all I get is stuff like this (ABS Spaghetti!)

Seriously though, all my ABS prints seems to have same problems. Skirt/brim constantly lift and bubbles, or cracks form in the layers. Very frustrating! I'm running with the following settings if anyone might be able to tell me what is right or wrong here that would be great!

Rostock Max V2 (only PEEK fan running)
CuraEngine slicer (.2mm quality)
240 (actually 237) extruder temp
90 bed temp
41mm/s print speed (46mm/s perimeter, 81mm/s infill)
Using purple glue stick on glass
ABS filament from SeeMeCNC.

I am just about ready to add enclosure side walls to control temp of surrounding air. But generally not seeing drafts or temp swings in the room. Would love to hear some thoughts.

Dave
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ABS Spaghetti!
ABS Spaghetti!

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Captain Starfish
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Re: Arghh! ABS is so hrd!

Post by Captain Starfish »

That's got to be frustrating.

Temps sound good, might be worth trying to paint mouse-ears on the corners and along the edges of the brim with ABS juice on the bigger parts to help keep the thing down. I find Elmer's is great for small pieces but once they get longer than about 2" on any side, it starts letting go. If the part comes loose you can expect spaghetti.

Might also be worth trying a thin raft on the bigger pieces.

The main thing is to focus on one problem at a time. I'd start with bed adhesion because there are known alternatives and fixes to that. If you nail that and still have sketti, then at least you've knocked out one unknown.

dseebauer
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Re: Arghh! ABS is so hrd!

Post by dseebauer »

Thanks for the advice and encouragement. I'll try some ABS juice and see if I can get the adhesion better. It has been as you said. Bigger the parts get the more trouble it is.

If I understand it correctly, raft will put some space between the part and the bed? I presume to give it some forgiveness to what is happening with regards to shrink etc?

I was also thinking I might need to slow down a bit (or alot). I printed some ABS pieces early on when we first finished the build and they went well. Since then I have been playing around with various things, speed, temp, slicers, etc, Seems like it is going in the wrong direction. Taking a step back may be the order of the day. Lower temps and slower speeds.

richardphat
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Re: Arghh! ABS is so hrd!

Post by richardphat »

I had that issue for several reasons.
Mainly caused by.

Belt loose
Epic uneven bed surface (curve is spotted even by bad eyesight)
Zero Level calibration
Filament colour

At least, the first 3 you can adjust them. Filaments can be annoying because you dont know what type of pigment they have used to colour the ABS and it does change the extrusion temperature. Had a batch of red and brown PLA filament from China, one has to be printed at 200 and the other one 240 and not to mention they didn't adhere on the bed in a similar way.

Can't say about filament from SMC, it's worth to keep that in mind also.

dseebauer
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Re: Arghh! ABS is so hrd!

Post by dseebauer »

Well, i tried the ABS juice. I could not find a consistent recipe out there. So my early attempts had the mix to thick, and made a mess of the glass. Still haven't been able to clean it up properly. In the end after many cleanings of the glass and re-applications, and cleaning a suspected clogged nozzle, and adjusting temps and enclosing the machine to hold some heat, I am still no closer to printing again. Very disappointing.

My next step is to dry the filament which is something I have not dealt with at all. Never had to, and although the larger prints would warp some, they held on and printed. When extruding I do get "pops" out of the nozzle. does that mean moisture?

After that not sure, but here are some thoughts that I would appreciate the feedback on,

Drying filament
Replacing or flipping glass over and trying from fresh start
Replacing nozzles
Retension belts after warmup
Reflashing firmware and going back to baseline profiles
Adding fully heated enclosure
Tear it all apart and start stomping on the remains (just kidding!)

I have no way to measure bed flatness, but I am able to calibrate it to the four points recommended (each tower and center). So it does not seem too out of flat.

I'm not in love with ABS, but I have rolls of it I want to get thru. richardphat mentioned filament color. I wonder, if it's not more the quality of the supplier. ABS can be made different ways and if the raw stock is formulated using a component that inhibits adhesion like mold release (or is just contaminated) it may leave behind a nasty on the glass so all future prints are problematic. Feels like that is what happened here maybe. I tried a yellow roll from Amazon, and I want to say since it's been nothing but trouble.

I'll keep plugging.

Thanks for the responses.

Dave

Steve123
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Re: Arghh! ABS is so hrd!

Post by Steve123 »

Dave,

This line got me.

"Tear it all apart and start stomping on the remains (just kidding!)" lol

Been there! Still kinda there! But keep plugging, you'll get there

Try some Aquanet hair spray, I've had better results with it.

Enclose the printer, any draft and temp change can affect your print. I think i read in here somewhere, somebody said,they do not dare even fart around their machine!

And do a brim on your print.

And try some PLA.

Good luck!

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gestalt73
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Re: Arghh! ABS is so hrd!

Post by gestalt73 »

Hey there, a little late to the party, but here are my exact steps that I follow on every print. Some of it works, some of it may be voodoo, but since I've adopted it I don't really have any problems with lifting or curling.

For the print bed:
- single coat of elmer's purple glue stick. put on cold. give a few minutes to dry completely
- single coat of abs slurry. it's very, very thinned out. put on cold. give a few minutes to dry and put on the build plate.
- build plate at least 100c. for very large prints, I've gone up to 120c for the print bed.
- i enclose my printer using the finest of hefty trash bags, to reduce drafts and equalize the temps a bit during the print

For the model:
- for most models, I may print with a brim (KISSlicer has a brim setting, think the others do as well)
- for larger models, I'll integrate a 2cm disk, with a height at least twice your layer height, and add them to every corner
- using your modeler of choice, create a 2cm diameter by 0.44mm high disc, export to stl
- load disc and model into repetier host, or any program that allows you to arrange models on the build plate
- copy your disc as many times as you need to, for every corner
- place your disc(s) with the center exactly at every corner of your model
- save out your new model with multiple parts, then load into your slicer

For the print:
- make sure your bed is level, and your bed height is dialed in
- verify by watching the first layer. if it's too squished, or if it's too high stop the print, adjust, and try again
- if you'd like, you can coat the edges of your first layer with your abs slurry to increase adhesion.
- don't rush your first layer. keep your speed to about 10-20mm/s.

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Nylocke
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Re: Arghh! ABS is so hrd!

Post by Nylocke »

If you have ABS On your bed try some windex, which worked well for me with scrubbing.

That infill speed seems really high to me. I print at 40-50mm/sec with Cura, both perimiters and infill.

RAMTechRob
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Re: Arghh! ABS is so hrd!

Post by RAMTechRob »

You can test your draft theory by using a piece of posterboard formed into a round tube and put it over the machine once it starts. That will stop the drafts and let you know if thats the problem.

I print my infill at 80 as well with no problems.

It sounds like your abs has too much moisture.

Mac The Knife
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Re: Arghh! ABS is so hrd!

Post by Mac The Knife »

Nylocke wrote:If you have ABS On your bed try some windex, which worked well for me with scrubbing.

That infill speed seems really high to me. I print at 40-50mm/sec with Cura, both perimiters and infill.

Windex does cut through the hairspray really well.
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dseebauer
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Re: Arghh! ABS is so hrd!

Post by dseebauer »

Ok so I am learning more with every attempted print. Thanks to everyone that has weighed in here. I really appreciate it.

I have been starting to get back on track with ABS prints using all of the advice that I've been given. Although it is still very finicky, here are the three key elements that really seem to make the difference.

1. ABS Juice works well, but...
Needs to be very thin (i.e. not too much dissolved plastic)
Needs to go on when the bed is somewhat cool (~<40°C)
Needs to be applied very thinly. (Too much/thick is BAD. So no double wiping. I use a tissue and go in one direction only)
2. Bed temp change? = recalibrate the printer. (even for a 5°C difference).
3. Don't shortcut the above just because you have to go to work or the wife yells at you to got to bed. ;)

For the ABS Juice, I had watched a couple videos and it looked like there was a thickness to it based on the color of the solution, etc. In reality it seems like you need very little ABS dissolved in solution. I've been playing with some variations in Bed Temp to get the printer to start. It seems my build has a very hard time getting up to 110°C consistently (which is a temp that I see others running at for ABS). It did a couple times and it was Z calibrated at that temp, but since it is not consistent I tried 105 and then 100. Each temp requires a recal. of the Z height. Otherwise I extrude spaghetti since the clearance is too much and not adhesion. (as temp drops so does the system expansion, so the clearance increases). Since I don't keep it running all the time, I think recalibrating before every print is warranted as it seems like the expansion point is at a different place every time I turn it on.

Question. What can one do to supercharge the bed heater? I would like to run it hotter and get it there faster. I am using the original power supply from Max V2 kit, which I think is 300 Watts. I've seen mention of people getting bigger ones. Are there any recommendations? Wonder tif this beast would fit? http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications ... &rrindex=0

Thanks for hanging in there! I'm more hopeful now so I guess jumping up and down on it will have to wait. :lol:

Dave

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Renha
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Re: Arghh! ABS is so hrd!

Post by Renha »

dseebauer wrote:Question. What can one do to supercharge the bed heater? I would like to run it hotter and get it there faster. I am using the original power supply from Max V2 kit, which I think is 300 Watts. I've seen mention of people getting bigger ones. Are there any recommendations? Wonder tif this beast would fit? http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications ... &rrindex=0

There is
You don't have permission to access "http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?" on this server.
on your link.

I have bought 600W 24V power supply ( SE-600-24 for 3800 roubles, i think you could get it much cheaper where you live ), and now I could get 120 grade faster than you could get 80 with default one :)
3D printing is magic!

Sorry my engrish :-/ you could PM me in Russian.

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