ERIS Early adopter feedback

The ERIS Delta, a truly affordable entry into Delta 3D Printing
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Re: ERIS Early adopter feedback

Post by JATMN »

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Re: ERIS Early adopter feedback

Post by U.S. Water Rockets »

AlanZ wrote:One think John mentioned is that the calibration script must be run with the hot end COLD. The accellerometer is sensitive to temperature, so the nozzle must be unheated when performing the auto calibration. That said, it did not solve my bed leveling issue, so that's still open.
I find it hard to imagine that the temperature of the Accelerometer PCB where it is located is going to be the issue. From the videos and pictures I have seen, the PCB is inside the fan duct and should be nice and cool.

The reason I asked a week or so ago how the accelerometer was wired to the Rambo was because I have seen in the past that the I2C bus is not very happy running a long distance on wires. I figured that there was a microcontroller on the PCB next to the accelerometer, and the microcontroller used an endstop signal to tell the Rambo that contact was made. I was surprised to learn that the I2C bus ran to the to hot end, and thought that they must be using an I2C differential driver or something to get it to work over the long wiring without interference.

Now that you say that the accelerometer only works with the hot end cold, I suspect it's not a heat issue. I think you're seeing the I2C bus picking up interference from the hot end heater PID switching.

It could also potentially be the hot end fan is creating vibrations that mess up the accelerometer, but my first guess is the heater switching on/off is screwing with the I2C bus.

It wouldn't be hard to hack an I2C differential driver on each end of the wires and see if that helps with the issue. If someone wants to try on their early adopter unit, I could probably tell you how to do it if someone points me to the schematics.
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Re: ERIS Early adopter feedback

Post by AlanZ »

As far as the temperature affecting the accelerometer, I am just relaying the information I heard directly from John Oly.
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Re: ERIS Early adopter feedback

Post by U.S. Water Rockets »

AlanZ wrote:As far as the temperature affecting the accelerometer, I am just relaying the information I heard directly from John Oly.
I wasn't saying the information or source was in question. I just wanted to inform everyone that there could be another cause for the issue that perhaps had not been considered, and temperature issues could be blamed for something else that could be fixed quite easily.
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Re: ERIS Early adopter feedback

Post by AlanZ »

I understand and appreciate considering the alternatives.
If I recall correctly, John was mentioning the manufacturer's operating temperature parameters/specs for the accelerometer that's currently being used in the Eris.

I mentioned to John and JJ that calibrating with a cold hot end is counter-intuitive to those of us who use a Rostock Max... whereby calibrating is best performed when the nozzle and heated bed are all up to operating temperature (where any flexing or expansion can be taken into account).
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Re: ERIS Early adopter feedback

Post by guanu »

It's a combination of a couple things... yes, in testing (even with the heat turned off, but at temp) you can get false hits but not have them when it is cold, so temp does play a factor.. second is gunk on the nozzle, if you have filament in the hotend and heat it up, then run the calibration the melted bit of plastic on the tip will cause it to fail. See gene's video, and that is exactly what was causing his false hits when he ran calibration.

The way I wrote the code for the calibration was that if the second tap is more or less than 0.1mm different than the first tap, it considers it a failed tap, both taps must be within 0.1mm of each other for it to consider it a good tap. So if there is melted plastic on the nozzle, or something that can cause the hotend to not get a solid clean tap, it will reset and try again.
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Re: ERIS Early adopter feedback

Post by U.S. Water Rockets »

guanu wrote:It's a combination of a couple things... yes, in testing (even with the heat turned off, but at temp) you can get false hits but not have them when it is cold, so temp does play a factor.. second is gunk on the nozzle, if you have filament in the hotend and heat it up, then run the calibration the melted bit of plastic on the tip will cause it to fail. See gene's video, and that is exactly what was causing his false hits when he ran calibration.

The way I wrote the code for the calibration was that if the second tap is more or less than 0.1mm different than the first tap, it considers it a failed tap, both taps must be within 0.1mm of each other for it to consider it a good tap. So if there is melted plastic on the nozzle, or something that can cause the hotend to not get a solid clean tap, it will reset and try again.
Is there any chance of adding some kind of automatic wiping to the software? That would probably help.

Another thing that bugs me is that other printers I have seen have a ooze removing step before they start a print where it moves the nozzle away from the print and does a purge and wipe on the build plate, to get that ooze string off the nozzle and out of the build area before printing. I hate having to sit there with tweezers and try and grab that string just before the print head drops to the plate at the start of the print. Has anyone gotten something like this to work with the Rostock/Orion/Eris?
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Re: ERIS Early adopter feedback

Post by geneb »

I like the idea of a dedicated purge/wipe operation, but I think you're nuts for using tweezers. :) You need a whole lot less dexterity to wipe the little bugger's nose with a clean bit of shop towel. :)

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Re: ERIS Early adopter feedback

Post by Mac The Knife »

And all this time I thought printing a brim was enough to clear the snot.
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Re: ERIS Early adopter feedback

Post by AlanZ »

I use forceps... I don't want my fingers anywhere near the hot end.

As a matter of coincidence, just last night I donated a few forceps to my local MakerSpace... I got nervous watching students with their hands way too close to places they should not be.
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Re: ERIS Early adopter feedback

Post by U.S. Water Rockets »

Mac The Knife wrote:And all this time I thought printing a brim was enough to clear the snot.
The problem is really that the plastic (especially PLA) drools out of the hot end as it reaches temperature and forms a 2" long icicle that hangs from the end. The brim operation cleans off the icicle but leaves it in a random spot on the build plate. So, what happens to me is this blob of string is sitting there and gets printed on/over. Sometimes the hot end snags on the thing because it didn't lay flat and it pulls up some of the first layer. Other times the string snags on the hot end and melts and leaves a blob on the side of the nozzle that can fall off at any time... usually after it sat there for a few hours and turns into a black hard cinder. The charred plastic debris usually ends up embedding itself into the print. This seems all the more likely when printing with a bright color on a final print.

So, I usually have to babysit the thing and clean it the instant it goes to print.
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Re: ERIS Early adopter feedback

Post by garfi3ld »

AlanZ wrote:I use forceps... I don't want my fingers anywhere near the hot end.

As a matter of coincidence, just last night I donated a few forceps to my local MakerSpace... I got nervous watching students with their hands way too close to places they should not be.

They are really cheap for prime users right now as well

http://www.amazon.com/Precision-Forceps ... B00EKQ7FY4
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Re: ERIS Early adopter feedback

Post by Eric »

Cheap wood chopsticks work pretty good. One is enough for a quick wipe, or two if you want a gripping action. This is also one of those cases where non-conductive tools are a good thing, especially if you don't have spare fuses.
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Re: ERIS Early adopter feedback

Post by IMBoring25 »

What printers have you used with an automatic purge? That should be a function of the slicer. It would be possible to write a post-processor to add that functionality to Slic3r.
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Re: ERIS Early adopter feedback

Post by Mac The Knife »

IMBoring25 wrote:What printers have you used with an automatic purge? That should be a function of the slicer. It would be possible to write a post-processor to add that functionality to Slic3r.
Some people will complain even if you hang them with new rope. No skin in the game, but they wanta be the boss.
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Re: ERIS Early adopter feedback

Post by Nylocke »

The Lulzbot printers all have wipers now (the TAZ 6 has a bunch of features brought in from the mini, including this) that the printer wipes off all the snot on before printing/tramming. Would be nice to get something like that on our printers. Maybe a little fold out thing on a servo, or some clever mechanically activated swing out arm that gets pushed in and out by one of the carriages or a flag on the belt.
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Re: ERIS Early adopter feedback

Post by U.S. Water Rockets »

Mac The Knife wrote:
IMBoring25 wrote:What printers have you used with an automatic purge? That should be a function of the slicer. It would be possible to write a post-processor to add that functionality to Slic3r.
Some people will complain even if you hang them with new rope. No skin in the game, but they wanta be the boss.
I'm sorry if suggesting useful features violates the forum rules. I'll keep my suggestions to myself from now on.
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Re: ERIS Early adopter feedback

Post by Mac The Knife »

Sorry, I don't see where you had suggested that the Eris should have autopurge, Now, there have been some inventive solutions people have come up with, using a micro servo, to wipe the nozzle.

If my previous comment seemed snarky, I blame it on a car forum I was just on, where some of the members seem to think they should have the build quality of a luxury car, the performance of a supercar, at the price of a yugo.
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Re: ERIS Early adopter feedback

Post by geneb »

Wiping with a thick washcloth or clean shop rag really is safe - your "time on nozzle" is often less than a second and the material is a "good enough" insulator to make it a safe process to use.

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Re: ERIS Early adopter feedback

Post by U.S. Water Rockets »

Mac The Knife wrote:Sorry, I don't see where you had suggested that the Eris should have autopurge, Now, there have been some inventive solutions people have come up with, using a micro servo, to wipe the nozzle.

If my previous comment seemed snarky, I blame it on a car forum I was just on, where some of the members seem to think they should have the build quality of a luxury car, the performance of a supercar, at the price of a yugo.
I didn't call out "autopurge" in my suggestion, since I never heard that term before. I just described the symptoms I see and suggested that other printers I have seen do a good job with their own solutions.

One really simple idea I could suggest is to move the extruder as far off the build area as possible while heating, and then doing an extrude and retract before printing to get that drool string to fall off and land away from the printed part.

Another idea I had was a cover for the nozzle that closes while heating and keeps the drool inside, then wipes it when opening.
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Re: ERIS Early adopter feedback

Post by Xenocrates »

Both of those things would require the slicer to support it, which means at very least adding a chunk of code to the preamble. It could be done though. They are also pretty cool. I think that the Max might have trouble with a wipe area, due to the kinematics of the system already having issues at the edge of the build area. Admittedly, the longer arms they moved to improved this, and it is possible that a wiper could be added (Although unlike a gantry system, you can't have one built into the end of the gantry that moves with you for free). It would either be initial wipe only, or require an additional axis motor (To lift it), as the parts while not certain to obscure the area the arms would need to travel through, are likely to. Which would require more slicer support, as it would need to be iterated upwards after each layer, or firmware support (Where the Z-height of the hotend is matched by the wipe platform by the firmware. However, even if it were initial wipe only, that would be an improvement over nothing.

The cover idea is simultaneously more interesting, and more technically difficult. The failure modes would be potentially very frightening as well, depending on the cover material (If it's some form of plastic, it may melt, and metals add large amounts of mass to the hotend.). Not to mention that there would need to be some form of motor to move it, and even a small stepper or cam operated system would add an annoying amount of mass (Of course, you could drive it with a bowden cable, and have the motor be elsewhere). But then, you need to design it such that the cover is open at rest, otherwise if there is a system failure, you will ruin the part, fill the cover with crud, or break your glass. It would also need to be designed/adjusted for every nozzle, which I'm not a fan of.

There is obviously room for improvement in the space, especially on delta designs.
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Re: ERIS Early adopter feedback

Post by U.S. Water Rockets »

I had something simple in mind with a servo motor and a metal wiper/cover thing.

Excuse the crudeness of my model. I didn't have time to build it to scale or paint it.
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Re: ERIS Early adopter feedback

Post by cjyohe »

Sorry... was down sick there for a couple of days.
Thanks for the suggestions... and given my previous MaxV2 experience I probably should have thought of this, but it escaped me - I think my issues were coming from a bad previous calibration - which then made it almost impossible to calibrate automatically. I may be a little off but here was what I went through.

After getting the feedback and thinking through it - i had been calibrating hot by sheer luck (I had moved the printer to different locations and thus had to cut/unload/load filament) so just on the off chance, ran it cold. Still no luck. Still running into the rails and jerking on the home. Tried this on and off for 30 min or so taking video and thinking about it. Also noticed that in this case the hot end platform gets tilted at a slight angle which likely wouldn't be good.

At this point I knew it wasn't custom setting related as I had used 2 new pcs with fresh MC installs and setting imports.

On a whim (not sure why...I guess it was because i figured removing gravity from helping the equation might take a little extra force off) I flipped the machine over and tried the calibration. Got much further and the second time it worked like a charm.

Flipped it right side up and it's working like charm still.

Then it hit me.
When it was not working the home points were near the edge of the bed - when it does, they are near the furthest out white circle.

Can anyone explain how the calibration is working in software currently? My thinking is that likely what was happening is that if the calibration hits a bad cycle or somehow the eeprom gets set wrong, the calibration is using an eeprom value and if that value is too large then it essentially tries to calibrate a bed that is too large for the printer - totally allowable as far as the board is concerned, but not by the mechanics of the printer, which bind and screw up the calibration (over and over). Seems a little far fetched, but possible I guess.

Also super easy for those of us using these kinds (or any really) printer before, but for new users it may be a bit of a hurdle.
If this is the case either a script to easily reset to the default value, or a limit in the calibration.

Robber Rex is now coming to life on the build plate.
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Re: ERIS Early adopter feedback

Post by AlanZ »

If you don't mind, can we move general nose wiping enhancements and the like to another thread (because it's not really specific to the Eris, and would benefit the larger community) and dedicate this thread to feedback from the early Eris adopters?
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Re: ERIS Early adopter feedback

Post by TedMilker »

[img]http://i.imgur.com/MSfQmdB.jpg[/img]

Prints pretty nice with the settings provided. Decent amount of stringing(I already picked some off before taking the picture). I also should have mouse-eared the legs or something because they lifted off the bed from contraction and messed up a couple layers. In my defense, this is the first time I've printed with straight PLA(I've always used IMPLA from Diamond Age), it's been awhile since I printed anything and I don't normally print toys like this.

Feedback for settings:

Default retraction probably needs to go up a bit more.
Settings need more testing with bridging. Didn't do well on the calibration cube's top at all.
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