Upgrade or throw away?

All things related to the Rostock MAX 3D Printer, the worlds FIRST Delta kit!
untitled86
Printmaster!
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:10 am

Upgrade or throw away?

Post by untitled86 »

I purchased a year ago and never really got my printer working properly. I could print calibration objects sometimes, but it seemed like things constantly needed to be adjusted. Most of my actual prints failed.

I had started with ABS, more recently I acquired some PLA and that seemed like it worked much better. ...But now I keep overheating and clogging the filament in the filament sheath near the top of the hotend. My printer is stock, the only upgrade I purchased was the glass Oynx bed.

Anyways, I need a working 3D printer. I'm at the point where I'm ready to buy a makerbot or something pre-assembled. Should I just do that?

I bought my printer over a year ago, I figure a lot of things have changed. By now the community here should know what works best where. So, what upgrades should I buy to bring my Rostock Max up to speed, or should I just give up on it?
cope413
Printmaster!
Posts: 446
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:52 pm
Location: Orange County, CA
Contact:

Re: Upgrade or throw away?

Post by cope413 »

I think you should give up on it and sell it to me for $500
Fellow Philosophy majors unite!

"The proverbial achilles heel of property monistic epiphenomenalism is the apparent impossibility of ex-nihilo materialization of non-structural and qualitatively new causal powers."
User avatar
Nylocke
ULTIMATE 3D JEDI
Posts: 1421
Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:43 pm
Location: Iowa

Re: Upgrade or throw away?

Post by Nylocke »

I think someone is desperate for a printer.... If I were you, I'd get an E3D and slap it on there, they work great, never had any problems with the one I installed on my works MAX or the 3mm one on my Ultimaker. Its is the only hot end I truly recommend to anyone. Greatest thing about it is its all metal, so no parts to melt and you can print with any material, so no replacement plastic bits to buy if they fail and no extra money to spend on upgrades or a new all metal hot end when you decide to try polycarb or nylon :)
[url=https://www.youmagine.com/designs/ezflexstruder]The EZFlexStruder on Youmagine[/url]
User avatar
CJGerard
Printmaster!
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:07 am
Location: Dayton, OH

Re: Upgrade or throw away?

Post by CJGerard »

Your gonna have problems with what ever 3d printer you buy unless you spend an insane amount of money on it. The guys at SeeMeCNC are good about helping out and the guys on the forum here are just flat out awesome!!! Since this is a new technology there are going to be road bumps and setbacks. I purchased my rostock because:

1- I didn't have an insane amount of money to throw around
2- Because of the crazy amount of help and support from the community.
3- The deal clincher was touring SeeMeCNC facility, I met Partdaddy and he showed me around. Everyone there could be making a ton of money doing something else, but they are passionate about what they do and what they make. The reason you max is now outdated is because they constantly look for flaws and ways to improve their design, then incorporate them into the product as fast as they can while making it so the older versions can be upgraded as well.

This is the type of company that i like to buy stuff from. Take a look around and see how many RS-Max's are for sale compared to other printers, then look at the price. In many cases they are more expensive or the same price as buying a new one. For a small company in Indiana, this speaks volumes. At the end though its still up to you to make your final decision.

Personally, my choices would come down to either keeping the max and fixing it, or selling it and buying an Orion.
Boss 1 - "I'm tiered of arguing with you! You come up with the MOST Stupid-Outlandish-Impossible way to do something & then you walk out into the shop and DO IT and IT WORKS. Its no fun anymore."
Boss 2 - "Huh? Chris is a Ninja?"
User avatar
Toyguy
Printmaster!
Posts: 121
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:39 pm
Location: Vermont

Re: Upgrade or throw away?

Post by Toyguy »

I have very little experience but my freshly built MAX is working quite well. It still needs some tuning, and I still need to do some learning, but I really cannot complain. A business near me that does contract 3D printing has 2 MAXex, an Orion and a Makerbot. They hate the Makerbot, claiming it has been out of service more often than not. That's hearsay, but they make their living doing 3D prints and they generally print on the Rostocks.

I did quite a lot of investigation before buying my MAX, and I just couldn't see what Makerbot brought to the table for the money they charge. Given the maturity of their technology, there's no reason that machine shouldn't sell for much less.

If it were me, I'd work on the MAX. Make sure you get the new extruder and delta arms, or get the Trick Laser arms to avoid that potential issue. Maybe pick up a new hot end with the new nozzle design, or at least the new nozzle. Make sure you have a PEEK fan and get a layer fan set up. Repeat the key parts of the setup - square the towers to the base and the top plates. Use Gene's manual to tune and set Printer Radius and Z height. Make sure your firmware and Repetier Host are up to date. Then try some calibration objects and post here for help adjusting it.
untitled86
Printmaster!
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:10 am

Re: Upgrade or throw away?

Post by untitled86 »

So, I should buy this set of arms?

http://tricklaser.com/Carbon-Fiber-Tube-Arm ... M-CFTX.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My arms, and the joints, worried me before. Once, 8 hours into a print, the pin holding one of the arms in place slid out of place causing chaos.

What about that E3D hot end? Is that the best hotend for these printers? Who should I buy it from? If anyone knows what hotend and fan setup work best, please post a link to the product so I can buy it. I didn't see a fan kit on the seemecnc site.
User avatar
Toyguy
Printmaster!
Posts: 121
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:39 pm
Location: Vermont

Re: Upgrade or throw away?

Post by Toyguy »

Yep, that's the arms I have and they are rock-solid. They come with a set of rubber anti-lash straps and they require no sanding or filing.

I don't have an E3D, but I will soon. There's now a US distributor for them and I believe they come complete with a fan and mount. They have a post here on the forum somewhere.
User avatar
CJGerard
Printmaster!
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:07 am
Location: Dayton, OH

Re: Upgrade or throw away?

Post by CJGerard »

I will be getting my new E3D hotend first. Then maybe upgrading my arms, I'm a toolmaker by trade so i kinda had the advantage while sanding my arms to fit and i'm kinda happy with them right now. I can see where a lot of people that don't physically make stuff for a living can go wrong on the arms though. The trick laser arms or the new seemecnc arms would probably help out quite a bit.

IF you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask the members of the forum. They have helped me out alot. :)
Boss 1 - "I'm tiered of arguing with you! You come up with the MOST Stupid-Outlandish-Impossible way to do something & then you walk out into the shop and DO IT and IT WORKS. Its no fun anymore."
Boss 2 - "Huh? Chris is a Ninja?"
untitled86
Printmaster!
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:10 am

Re: Upgrade or throw away?

Post by untitled86 »

Is this what I need?

http://e3d-online.com/E3D-HotEnds/E3D-V5-1. ... tal-HotEnd" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Are there any other parts I'll need to attach this to my rostock max?
untitled86
Printmaster!
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:10 am

Re: Upgrade or throw away?

Post by untitled86 »

CJGerard wrote:The trick laser arms or the new seemecnc arms
Those new seemecnc arms are much less expensive. Are they really comparable, performance wise?
User avatar
CJGerard
Printmaster!
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:07 am
Location: Dayton, OH

Re: Upgrade or throw away?

Post by CJGerard »

http://forum.seemecnc.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=2808" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Check this thread out in the forums for the hotend. There is a US supplier for it.

Also here is a revew of the new seemecnc arms on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_Lb_igsG1g" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As i said, i still have my stock arms but i have heard good things about both the new seemecnc arms and the trick laser arms.
Boss 1 - "I'm tiered of arguing with you! You come up with the MOST Stupid-Outlandish-Impossible way to do something & then you walk out into the shop and DO IT and IT WORKS. Its no fun anymore."
Boss 2 - "Huh? Chris is a Ninja?"
User avatar
Jimustanguitar
ULTIMATE 3D JEDI
Posts: 2631
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:35 am
Location: Notre Dame area
Contact:

Re: Upgrade or throw away?

Post by Jimustanguitar »

Depending on when you bought your kit, you may or may not have the EZStruder. I've got to sing its praises, if you've got Steve's gear reduction extruder you should upgrade.

I was having a lot of trouble on my Rostock, and I upgraded to the EZStruder and a hotends.com JHead and I wish I'd done both sooner. I also have the carbon fiber trick laser arms, that's a must do as well. Brian makes great parts. They sell an LED ring and other accessories too.

Also, make sure you're using Repetier firmware instead of Marlin and all that good stuff too.
geneb
ULTIMATE 3D JEDI
Posts: 5200
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:47 pm
Location: Graham, WA
Contact:

Re: Upgrade or throw away?

Post by geneb »

You don't need a new hot end. You DO need a fan on the PEEK section to prevent PLA from jamming.

The pin holding the arms fell out because you didn't tighten the screws properly. They don't magically back out.

The new-style injection molded arms work great! I've got three machines that use them and zero "DAB" problems. :)

g.
Delta Power!
Defeat the Cartesian Agenda!
http://www.f15sim.com - 80-0007, The only one of its kind.
http://geneb.simpits.org - Technical and Simulator Projects
User avatar
Nylocke
ULTIMATE 3D JEDI
Posts: 1421
Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:43 pm
Location: Iowa

Re: Upgrade or throw away?

Post by Nylocke »

If you get an E3D get a bowden 1.75 version, it'll save you some annoyances. Dunno what your talking about Jim, I use Marlin on all of my printers, including the MAX I built :P
[url=https://www.youmagine.com/designs/ezflexstruder]The EZFlexStruder on Youmagine[/url]
cope413
Printmaster!
Posts: 446
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:52 pm
Location: Orange County, CA
Contact:

Re: Upgrade or throw away?

Post by cope413 »

Guys, c'mon, you're all just giving him a lot of work. I already generously offered $500 for his machine. I'll up it to $505 to cover the time he needed to read all of your supposed "help".
Fellow Philosophy majors unite!

"The proverbial achilles heel of property monistic epiphenomenalism is the apparent impossibility of ex-nihilo materialization of non-structural and qualitatively new causal powers."
User avatar
Eaglezsoar
ULTIMATE 3D JEDI
Posts: 7185
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:26 pm

Re: Upgrade or throw away?

Post by Eaglezsoar »

cope413 wrote:Guys, c'mon, you're all just giving him a lot of work. I already generously offered $500 for his machine. I'll up it to $505 to cover the time he needed to read all of your supposed "help".
You're too generous. Offer him $503 and use the other $2 to buy some more capacitors.
User avatar
Nylocke
ULTIMATE 3D JEDI
Posts: 1421
Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:43 pm
Location: Iowa

Re: Upgrade or throw away?

Post by Nylocke »

I would offer him at least $700, for all the time and effort he put into it. Its $1000+ for the whole kit, and he's already assembled it mostly, watchu doin cope 0.o
[url=https://www.youmagine.com/designs/ezflexstruder]The EZFlexStruder on Youmagine[/url]
untitled86
Printmaster!
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:10 am

Re: Upgrade or throw away?

Post by untitled86 »

The $500 seems fair to me. But after I spend $$$ on these upgrades, I'll probably want something like $700 + shipping. ...IF I can't get it to work.

So far I'm hearing....

1) Trick Laser Arms - More expensive, maybe overkill, worth the peace of mind.
http://tricklaser.com/Carbon-Fiber-Tube-Arm ... M-CFTX.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2) New hotend with fan on PEEK section. I'm thinking E3D Bowden...
http://www.filastruder.com/products/all-metal-e3d-hotend" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

3) EZStruder? I hate the extruder on my Rostock Max. ...Even though it seems like it's been working flawlessly. What parts do I need to buy to upgrade this? Is this the kit? ...
http://seemecnc.com/collections/parts-acces ... ld-end-kit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks again for all your help.
User avatar
CJGerard
Printmaster!
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:07 am
Location: Dayton, OH

Re: Upgrade or throw away?

Post by CJGerard »

untitled86 wrote:The $500 seems fair to me. But after I spend $$$ on these upgrades, I'll probably want something like $700 + shipping. ...IF I can't get it to work.

So far I'm hearing....

1) Trick Laser Arms - More expensive, maybe overkill, worth the peace of mind.
http://tricklaser.com/Carbon-Fiber-Tube-Arm ... M-CFTX.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2) New hotend with fan on PEEK section. I'm thinking E3D Bowden...
http://www.filastruder.com/products/all-metal-e3d-hotend" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

3) EZStruder? I hate the extruder on my Rostock Max. ...Even though it seems like it's been working flawlessly. What parts do I need to buy to upgrade this? Is this the kit? ...
http://seemecnc.com/collections/parts-acces ... ld-end-kit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks again for all your help.
The E3D doesn't have a peek section, its all metal and can go to higher temps.

I Have the EZStruder on my RS-Max, it seems like it is alot less complicated than the old extruder and more reliable. It also moves the filiment to the top instead of the side so the machine itself takes up less space.

Sounds like your gonna keep your max. I hope everything works out for you. :)
Boss 1 - "I'm tiered of arguing with you! You come up with the MOST Stupid-Outlandish-Impossible way to do something & then you walk out into the shop and DO IT and IT WORKS. Its no fun anymore."
Boss 2 - "Huh? Chris is a Ninja?"
User avatar
Jimustanguitar
ULTIMATE 3D JEDI
Posts: 2631
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:35 am
Location: Notre Dame area
Contact:

Re: Upgrade or throw away?

Post by Jimustanguitar »

Nylocke wrote:Dunno what your talking about Jim, I use Marlin on all of my printers, including the MAX I built :P
Marlin works very well, there's not a problem with it or anything like that. Repetier is just "smarter" in how it calculates tool movements (especially speed) plus it's the currently supported firmware that's getting updates and bug fixes that are specific to the Rostock. That's why I advise using it. If it's not broke, don't fix it :) but if you're already frustrated with your machine it might be a fresh step in the right direction. (no kitty litter pun intended)
untitled86
Printmaster!
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:10 am

Re: Upgrade or throw away?

Post by untitled86 »

CJGerard wrote:
untitled86 wrote:The $500 seems fair to me. But after I spend $$$ on these upgrades, I'll probably want something like $700 + shipping. ...IF I can't get it to work.

So far I'm hearing....

1) Trick Laser Arms - More expensive, maybe overkill, worth the peace of mind.
http://tricklaser.com/Carbon-Fiber-Tube-Arm ... M-CFTX.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2) New hotend with fan on PEEK section. I'm thinking E3D Bowden...
http://www.filastruder.com/products/all-metal-e3d-hotend" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

3) EZStruder? I hate the extruder on my Rostock Max. ...Even though it seems like it's been working flawlessly. What parts do I need to buy to upgrade this? Is this the kit? ...
http://seemecnc.com/collections/parts-acces ... ld-end-kit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks again for all your help.
The E3D doesn't have a peek section, its all metal and can go to higher temps.

I Have the EZStruder on my RS-Max, it seems like it is alot less complicated than the old extruder and more reliable. It also moves the filiment to the top instead of the side so the machine itself takes up less space.

Sounds like your gonna keep your max. I hope everything works out for you. :)

The fact that I didn't know what the peek section was gives you a glimpse into how much I don't know. Thanks for the help, I need it.
untitled86
Printmaster!
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:10 am

Re: Upgrade or throw away?

Post by untitled86 »

Jimustanguitar wrote:
Nylocke wrote:Dunno what your talking about Jim, I use Marlin on all of my printers, including the MAX I built :P
Marlin works very well, there's not a problem with it or anything like that. Repetier is just "smarter" in how it calculates tool movements (especially speed) plus it's the currently supported firmware that's getting updates and bug fixes that are specific to the Rostock. That's why I advise using it. If it's not broke, don't fix it :) but if you're already frustrated with your machine it might be a fresh step in the right direction. (no kitty litter pun intended)
I've been using the Marlin firmware. I'll also try switching to Repetier. So to re-cap, I will...

1) Buy this new hotend with fan on mid section which should prevent the PLC from jamming...
http://www.filastruder.com/products/all" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... e3d-hotend

2) Buy the Trick Laser arms...
http://tricklaser.com/Carbon-Fiber-Tube" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... M-CFTX.htm

3) Buy the EZStruder...
http://seemecnc.com/collections/parts-a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... ld-end-kit

4) Switch to the Repetier firmware.

Anything else?
User avatar
Eaglezsoar
ULTIMATE 3D JEDI
Posts: 7185
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:26 pm

Re: Upgrade or throw away?

Post by Eaglezsoar »

If you are going to use PLA you will need a cooling fan.
You will need a mount for the E3D Hotend, I recommend you purchase the bowden version of the E3D
and use this as the mount: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:137140" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
User avatar
Nylocke
ULTIMATE 3D JEDI
Posts: 1421
Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:43 pm
Location: Iowa

Re: Upgrade or throw away?

Post by Nylocke »

A cooling fan for PLA isn't an absolute must, Ive gotten away without one platy of times, including some times i probably shouldn't have, though it helps a lot to have one :)
[url=https://www.youmagine.com/designs/ezflexstruder]The EZFlexStruder on Youmagine[/url]
geneb
ULTIMATE 3D JEDI
Posts: 5200
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:47 pm
Location: Graham, WA
Contact:

Re: Upgrade or throw away?

Post by geneb »

...or you could just install a PEEK fan on your stock hot end and use that...

You CAN print for _short_ periods of time without a fan, but you're better off with one.

g.
Delta Power!
Defeat the Cartesian Agenda!
http://www.f15sim.com - 80-0007, The only one of its kind.
http://geneb.simpits.org - Technical and Simulator Projects
Post Reply

Return to “Rostock MAX”