First print shifting

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DavidF
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Re: First print shifting

Post by DavidF »

well, it should smoosh into the bed at each axis...... very perplexing. Im sure you hate it big time, but damn its so interesting!
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Re: First print shifting

Post by Nylocke »

What is your arm length and horizontal radius? Can you screenshot the EEPROM window?
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Re: First print shifting

Post by KAS »

I would almost just say put your end stop screws in the middle and erase everything. Start over fresh with a new firmware upload and re-calibrate everything.
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Re: First print shifting

Post by dylantep »

sorry it took so long for me to get around to this. heres my eeprom
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Re: First print shifting

Post by Nylocke »

Your steps per mm are waaaaaaay off. Should be 100 with 16 tooth pulleys.
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Re: First print shifting

Post by dylantep »

it was originally a little of 100 but it was moving twice as far as it should (a 10mm movement command resulted in a 20mm movement on the machine) so I brought it down to the value shown to get the most accurate movement
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Re: First print shifting

Post by Nylocke »

Steps per mm is a value you should never mess with. Adjusting that value is a bandaid for another problem. If you have the 16 tooth pulleys your steps per mm should be 100.
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Re: First print shifting

Post by dylantep »

Nylocke wrote:Steps per mm is a value you should never mess with. Adjusting that value is a bandaid for another problem. If you have the 16 tooth pulleys your steps per mm should be 100.
any Ideas on what might be the cause of it moving too far then?
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Re: First print shifting

Post by Polygonhell »

dylantep wrote:
Nylocke wrote:Steps per mm is a value you should never mess with. Adjusting that value is a bandaid for another problem. If you have the 16 tooth pulleys your steps per mm should be 100.
any Ideas on what might be the cause of it moving too far then?
Which firmware are you using?
How old is the kit?
The most obvious reason is that the uStepping for the drivers is set incorrectly, this is set in configuration.h in the firmware, early RAMBO boards did not support 16x uStepping, but those boards haven't shipped in probably 2 years.
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Re: First print shifting

Post by Nylocke »

Micro stepping might not be configured correctly, or you might have different pulleys if you did a custom build of some sorts, which it doesnt seem like you did that? Can you give us more info about your machine? When did you get it? What version of the MAX is it? Why does it have a Phebe heated bed? Its sounding like you might have one of the ones that came with a 1/8th stepping RAMBo boards and possibly the 15 tooth pulleys.
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Re: First print shifting

Post by Polygonhell »

I just looked at your posting history, and it appears you have an early V1 Max which means the board only supports 8x uStepping, in which case the correct steps per value is 53.333333.
Later I'll grab the eeprom settings from mine and post.
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Re: First print shifting

Post by dylantep »

Polygonhell wrote:I just looked at your posting history, and it appears you have an early V1 Max which means the board only supports 8x uStepping, in which case the correct steps per value is 53.333333.
Later I'll grab the eeprom settings from mine and post.
That would be wonderful. Thank you.
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Re: First print shifting

Post by Polygonhell »

You can and should ignore the Extruder2 settings, you likely won't have them in your eeprom setting, the extruder steps is setup for an EZStruder not the original Extruder, the PID values are likely miles off what you need because I'm running a Kraken rather than the original extruder. But the mechanical stuff should be mostly correct for a V1.
FWIW The biggest issue with the V1's as they came from SeeMe was the Extruder, they are tricky to get the tension just right on and with softer plastics have a tendency to jam the plastic in the extruder body just after the pinch roller.
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Re: First print shifting

Post by dylantep »

Thank you. Ill give you're settings a shot. Also, do you know where in the firmware you change the pulley teeth count? It was at 20 and I changed it to 15 (which is what mine are) but I didn't notice any difference in the movement after the change. I'm thinkin maybe I didn't change the right line.
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Re: First print shifting

Post by Polygonhell »

You don't need to change then tooth count, it's just used to calculate the steps per mm, so you can just set that in the eeprom.
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Re: First print shifting

Post by dylantep »

so I used the EEPROM settings you provided. The strange movement problem is still occurring except now when I move 50mm in any direction it does half of it, pauses for a second and then finishes the movement. i'll upload a video when I get a chance.
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Re: First print shifting

Post by dylantep »

Polygonhell I'm guessing you have a max v1 as well? would you be willing to send me you're config.h file? maybe I can see if that will solve my movement issues
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Re: First print shifting

Post by Polygonhell »

I run slightly different firmware than most here, and like most V1's I have modifications that impact the configuration.h settings, I also run 2 extruders and a kraken hotend, so all the extruder/hotend configuration will be incorrect, and you'll at least have to disable the second extruder to get it to even move. In addition I know I have changes in the LCD code and pins.h which may cause issues with the LCD and/or stepper motion.

There is also a good chance I never corrected some items in the configuration.h like steps per mm because I just set them in the EEPROM.

Having said that your welcome to it

Also the way you describe the motion is not necessarily wrong.

Repetier has an issue with fast, very long linear moves on delta printers, it will move about half way pause and continue the move, this might be an artifact of my playing with delta segments settings, mine does it every time the head moves down after homing at the start of a print, it's harmless, since you never see moves like that while a printing.
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Re: First print shifting

Post by dylantep »

good to know about the movement. So with further testing I have discovered that if I go to z0 in the middle of the bed and put a piece of paper under the nozzle it slides around just fine. however, if I move to a far side of the bed and then move back the paper is now stuck between the bed and the nozzle. If I do a G28 and then move back to z0 in the middle the paper slides again.

You got me thinking about the LCD though. Mine is not currently plugged in because when I did plug it in it caused strange movements. could this be the cause of my problem?
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Re: First print shifting

Post by dylantep »

well it seems using your config file got rid of the squishing into the bed. It seems to be moving pretty flat now. Unfortunately the shifting is still occurring :(
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Re: First print shifting

Post by Polygonhell »

dylantep wrote:good to know about the movement. So with further testing I have discovered that if I go to z0 in the middle of the bed and put a piece of paper under the nozzle it slides around just fine. however, if I move to a far side of the bed and then move back the paper is now stuck between the bed and the nozzle. If I do a G28 and then move back to z0 in the middle the paper slides again.

You got me thinking about the LCD though. Mine is not currently plugged in because when I did plug it in it caused strange movements. could this be the cause of my problem?
Then you are losing steps.
How tight are your belts?
If they are too tight, they place undue lateral load on the stepper motor bearings and that can result in the force required to move the carriage being excessively high.
You can also try turning up the stepper current in configuration.h
I'd suggest you try moving the carriages by hand, but unless you know what it's supposed to feel like, it's not all that useful. All 3 should feel about the same though.

The issue can also so be electrical, noise on the stepper control lines.
Or heat related, you really need a fan blowing on the backside of the early RAMBO boards.

On the LCD, that sounds a lot like noise or possibly a bad RAMBO, the early V1's shipped with 2 sets of cables for the LCD, you MUST use the shorter set.
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Re: First print shifting

Post by dylantep »

I loosened the belts a smidge and added a fan to the RAMBO and still had the same issue. I'm not sure where electrical noise might be coming from, routed the stepper and the motor in opposite directions for the tower that I think is causing the problem. The only other thing I could think of is that I made an extension cord for that stepper line because it couldn't reach the rambo. Maybe that is causing problems?

The other issue I thought of is that when I was building the machine I had trouble getting one of the towers perfectly perpendicular to the rest of the machine. I thought I got it pretty damn close but maybe it has a very slight angle to it? would this cause the issue I am having?
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Re: First print shifting

Post by Polygonhell »

Ni that level os skew can only really be caused by missed steps.
Extension might be it, if it wasn't done well I had an issue with a second exrtruder that turned out to be a bad plug in the connector I used, it mostly worked unless it didn't.
Badly crimped connector can also do it.
I would verify everything feels the same when moving the towers by hand, if they do feel the motion of the steppers while printing, should at least let you identify which axis is the issue. Swap the bad axis with a known good one at the Rambo board (turn off the power for this, you can easilly destroy the drivers pluging or unpluging cables), it the failure still in the same direction. If it is the issue is most likely the driver on the RAMBO, or a mechanical problem with the tower in question, if it moves to the new tower, it's the stepper or its wiring.
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Re: First print shifting

Post by drunkenmugsy »

dylantep wrote:well it seems using your config file got rid of the squishing into the bed. It seems to be moving pretty flat now. Unfortunately the shifting is still occurring :(
I am totally new and dont know shit but your print looks like a hot gooey mess. What are you printing and at what temp?
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Re: First print shifting

Post by dylantep »

Polygonhell wrote:Ni that level os skew can only really be caused by missed steps.
Extension might be it, if it wasn't done well I had an issue with a second exrtruder that turned out to be a bad plug in the connector I used, it mostly worked unless it didn't.
Badly crimped connector can also do it.
I would verify everything feels the same when moving the towers by hand, if they do feel the motion of the steppers while printing, should at least let you identify which axis is the issue. Swap the bad axis with a known good one at the Rambo board (turn off the power for this, you can easilly destroy the drivers pluging or unpluging cables), it the failure still in the same direction. If it is the issue is most likely the driver on the RAMBO, or a mechanical problem with the tower in question, if it moves to the new tower, it's the stepper or its wiring.
The towers feel the same by hand. I swapped the x and z motors on the RAMBO and then when I tried to do a G28 command and the z tower (plugged into x on rambo) hit the endstop and kept going. I swapped the motors back and could do a G28 just fine. The strange thing is and doing a M119 command returns x_min:H x_max:L y_max:L z_max:L. Whats the x_min:H? I get that the rest are for the endstops but I have no idea what that is for.
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