PEI print bed surface experiments

Nylocke · Post by **Nylocke** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:52 pm

I print Nylon by flipping the glass and covering the underside (bare glass) with Scotch Permanent glue. You should be able to do the same thing with the Ninjaflex, the backside still works.

Renha · Post by **Renha** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:10 am

if you have 2 or more hotends, you could use raft ABS layer

dunginhawk · Post by **dunginhawk** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:07 am

yeah i do have a dual hot end.. thats not a bad idea .. i definitely need to get some removeable somethings, because i want smooth PLA, Matte ABS, something else for ninja.. its getting crazy haha.
good ideas.

JFettig · Post by **JFettig** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:56 pm

Has anyone printed PETG on PEI? I'm getting a spool today and I'm just contemplating what to print it onto, and what temps. It seems like really hot bed with glue stick is go-to for most, haven't seen much about printing on PEI yet.

JFettig · Post by **JFettig** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:02 pm

2 test parts, one at 90c, one at 70c, both stuck fine... gonna start a pretty large 3.5 hour print at 75c, we'll see what happens!

3D-Print · Post by **3D-Print** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:51 pm

JFettig wrote:2 test parts, one at 90c, one at 70c, both stuck fine... gonna start a pretty large 3.5 hour print at 75c, we'll see what happens!

Awesome. Did you print it on PEI? I just reviewed some T-Glase as well. What is your extruder temp?

JFettig · Post by **JFettig** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:26 pm

Yeah, on pei, much bigger print on there right now. 240c nozzle right now. Need to experiment more.

Turned it up to 250c, got way more clear, less goobers(it had so much pressure in the nozzle, even large retracts was causing it to ooze out during rapids). trying 260c now.
http://i.imgur.com/XuWwguw.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

BenTheRighteous · Post by **BenTheRighteous** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:06 pm

I printed a shower rod bracket out of PETG not too long ago. I don't remember if I used 260 or 270 for the extruder but I do remember having to get my PEI *really* hot for it to stick - 115c. Anything less and the corners wouldn't stick as they were being laid down.

Might've had something to do with the fact that I was printing .7mm layers, dunno, I didn't try anything thinner since I was going for clarity.

EDIT: I lied, the extruder was only 212, that could've made a difference too.

JFettig · Post by **JFettig** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:58 pm

Just finished the print, it stuck good at 75C, this is ESUN PETG. I took the part off right away, took a lot of effort to get it to pop off. I'll print the same part again tomorrow, all at 260C, this time I'll let it cool down to see if it pops itself off.

My settings:
.4mm E3D nozzle
.2mm layer height
4 bottom layers 6 top
15% infill, 200% extrusion
50mm/s with cooling enabled in S3d
260C nozzle
75C bed(PEI, smooth side 1500grit sanded)
~38C chamber temp

The stuff printed at 240C makes all sorts of cracking noises when I flex the part - I believe its the 15% infill pulling away from the walls.

JFettig · Post by **JFettig** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 8:42 am

I just printed another part on PEI and broke it taking it off! It was stuck down hard! I'm going to try lowering my bed temp significantly for the next one.

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:36 am

It is important to make sure your Z height is set properly. If it is too low, this will happen.

What happens is that most folks squish the first layer to get it to stick to other surfaces. Then when they move to PEI they naturally do the same. But PEI does not need the squish to stick! Same with temperature, many folks increase temperature of extrusion and hot beds to compensate for other problems.

Try printing my single layer calibration object and measuring it. It is also easier to remove and you'll know when you peal it off if you are too close. Finally, for some big/odd parts, a little shot of refrigerant in a can will pop it right off.

Cheers,
Michael

JFettig · Post by **JFettig** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:40 am

That might have been the problem because I was calibrated for 235C and I was running 260C, it was squished down quite a bit.

I shot a previous 4mm thick part with a can of air upside down, the part potato chipped right off - huge curl but it came right back as the part continued to cool. I was quite surprised.

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:33 am

Great!

Concentrate a blast just on an edge. That will start it to lift and not affect the entire part. Works well for me.

imyz · Post by **imyz** » Sun Mar 15, 2015 2:36 am

@mhackney thanks for pointing me to this fantastic build surface, it works like a wonder!

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:07 am

Glad to help! I'm on a mission to convert all PLA and ABS printers to PEI!

3D-Print · Post by **3D-Print** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:29 pm

I love the PEI surface so much I ordered and extra sheet as a backup to have on hand. FYI, when ordering from Amazon it was on back order for almost 4-weeks. It is unquestionably in demand.

PEI Rocks. It works awesome every time. Thanks again mhackney!!

Nareikuk · Post by **Nareikuk** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:27 am

I had quite a lot of trouble trying to get ABS to stick to PEI. That was eventually solved with some help from mhackney to get the first layer right and also by increasing the bed temperature to 105C. Now that is way hotter than mhackney recommends, but it turns out that it is only 88C when measured with a real thermocouple rather than relying on the thermistor. Reducing the bed temperature reduces the 'stickiness' quite a bit for ABS.

teoman · Post by **teoman** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:06 am

Yes indeed. Mine will not print at 105. It works rather nicely at 115. But that reading is probably incorrect. As 1 the thermistor is not to be trusted. 2 i have an aluminium sheet between the glass and the bed, 3 the PEI is also limiting the temperature. So i have no idea what the actual temperature on the pei surface is. But 115 works for me

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:13 am

As always, when I report a temperature for a hot end or bed temperature, it is an accurate temperature measured with a calibrated external thermocouple. It takes a good 10-15 minutes for the heated bed to equilibrate AFTER the onboard thermistor reports the target temperature. Once it does, you might find that you can lower the bed temperature. But if you can actually measure the surface temp, that would be best.

Tonkabot · Post by **Tonkabot** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:40 am

I just ordered my PEI yesterday from McMaster Carr. It should be here today (apparently in stock in town, $5 for local delivery service)

7576K11 Ultem Film, .003" Thick, 24" X 12" $17.66 http://www.mcmaster.com/#7576k11

Will I need to fasten it to the glass with [high quality] double stick tape, glue, or something?

I ordered a cyclops from the Brits, no idea when it will get here. I am still debating if I want to pay the prototype pricing for the silicone bed heater - they want $270 for 3. If I can get two people to commit I'll do it. (500W or so, runs off AC I'll build the required SSR* and throw it in.)

* actually an opto-isolated Triac is what is needed, I already have the circuit and tested it

JFettig · Post by **JFettig** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:55 am

You should have gotten .030", not .003" I don't think anyone has had any luck with the film

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:38 am

Tonkabot, make sure you get the 0.030" thick material, not the thin film stuff.

Please read my recap thread http://forum.seemecnc.com/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=7452" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; on how to apply it. It will take you 5 minutes and you'll save a lot of headache.

Tonkabot · Post by **Tonkabot** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:17 pm

oops. I was going from memory and thought you guys suggested the .003 which is sitting on my desk here now....

I did think it was odd that Mcmaster seemed to beat Amazon's prices, should have been a tip off...

They don't have .030, but they have .040 for $19 : 0.040" ±0.004" 8685K41 $19.89

Is .040 okay? Amazons .030 'usually ships in 1 to 2 months' and costs $17 for a 12x12, so McMasters is not bad.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#8685k41

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:19 pm

Yes, read my thread, it tells all about McMaster 0.040" and Amazon 0.030" material.

Tonkabot · Post by **Tonkabot** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:06 pm

techstorage wrote:I am running out of glue sticks, so time to install this update.

I have a thin copper sheet .032", ULTEM PEI sheet .003" and 3m tape to make the sandwich on my Max v2 with an extra glass plate I purchased from Seemecnc.

Should I put any Kapton tape between the hotbed and copper sheet? I read in this post some also have attached the metal to the hotbed so it is fixed all the time. I am thinking of doing this with the copper on my printer also and don't want to short anything out for the hotbed.

Any advice would be great.

So they tell me 0.003 won't work. Techstorage, did you have good luck with the .003 PEI or is that a typo?

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PEI print bed surface experiments

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