E3D V4 All metal hotend

[aerouta]

Have you correctly assembled the nozzle and heat break and tightened them at 300°C as per the instruction sheet? It is imperative that you do so or you could have the sorts of problems you're reporting.

Ok, I will work on changing the firmware to allow for 300c. I haven't loaded FW to the in almost a year and I am afraid that doing so will set me make in more ways than one. Is there a checksum or CRC that I can check to make sure that I upload the same firmware that is currently on the board. I would hate to update an old config file to the board with on old delta radius or something.

[mhackney]

No there isn't and you most certainly will have to edit Configuration.h for your printer. AND as I said before, this new version will require you to completely recalibrate so your old delta radius is not going to help any more than likely - except get you in the ballpark.

[McSlappy]

AND as I said before, this new version will require you to completely recalibrate so your old delta radius is not going to help any more than likely - except get you in the ballpark.

Oh man, I was hoping I wouldn't have to do that.

So why does it need a new number, anyone know what changed?

Oh well, it'll be like changing my underpants - a hassle, but a good idea every few months.

[mhackney]

No, they just redid the code for the delta calibration. Mine was actually pretty far off with the new code.

[aerouta]

What did you do with canola oil? Also, dang, I want one of those.

I took a filament cleaner, something like this, and cover the sponge, microfiber cloth in my case, with canola oil. Obviously, not so much that it's dripping but enough that it will give an even coat to the filament.

I think I found this tip on reprap forums.

This is interesting. Did you have issues with the extruder gripping the filament after it'd been oiled up? As anyone else tried this?

[aerouta]

Just to give an update, I've pulled mine off the machine, I can't reliably print PLA with it, even ABS jams if I try significant retracts with it.
A lot to like about it, but it's too unreliable for the bulk of the material I print with.

Hey poly, I noticed some issues at first with it as well and it ended up being the stainless portion was not perfectly aligned with the alu portion and created a minor little lip inside for things to catch and stall one.

Here's what I did to fix.

I took the nozzle offand the heater block.

Then I tightened the stainless into the aluminium after removing and cleaning it's threads. The purpose here is to get it to sit exactly where you want it to be for it's happy little life. Then I took a long drill bit the exact same diameter as the feed tube for the stainless (and aluminium) and ran this up through the stainless a few times on a drill to ensure that the path junction between the stainless and the aluminium portion were burr free and perfect smooth and aligned and met perfectly. I do not think they do this at the factory and the ever so slight edge catches the filament at the junction right at the thermal break and causes issues.

I never experienced the resistance that you mentioned with PLA or ABS. Try this out. I speculate that they manufacture the stainless and the aluminium seperately and ever so slight variances in the centering cause this little shoulder inside. After smoothing this edge out when you have things seated for your specific hotend I am betting you'll be golden.

Hope this helps.

I only discovered this because when I was tapping the threads for the PTF connector I ran the bit through to clean any possible shavings out that might have plugged the tip. Then I discovered the ever so slight edge I speak about and got it before my first use of the hotend.

As anyone else tried this?

Flateric- would you still recommend to try this to resolve a PLA jamming issue.

Polygonhell - did you ever get a replacement hotend? Did you have better luck with it?

[Flateric]

Just to give an update, I've pulled mine off the machine, I can't reliably print PLA with it, even ABS jams if I try significant retracts with it.
A lot to like about it, but it's too unreliable for the bulk of the material I print with.

Hey poly, I noticed some issues at first with it as well and it ended up being the stainless portion was not perfectly aligned with the alu portion and created a minor little lip inside for things to catch and stall one.

Here's what I did to fix.

I took the nozzle offand the heater block.

Then I tightened the stainless into the aluminium after removing and cleaning it's threads. The purpose here is to get it to sit exactly where you want it to be for it's happy little life. Then I took a long drill bit the exact same diameter as the feed tube for the stainless (and aluminium) and ran this up through the stainless a few times on a drill to ensure that the path junction between the stainless and the aluminium portion were burr free and perfect smooth and aligned and met perfectly. I do not think they do this at the factory and the ever so slight edge catches the filament at the junction right at the thermal break and causes issues.

I never experienced the resistance that you mentioned with PLA or ABS. Try this out. I speculate that they manufacture the stainless and the aluminium seperately and ever so slight variances in the centering cause this little shoulder inside. After smoothing this edge out when you have things seated for your specific hotend I am betting you'll be golden.

Hope this helps.

I only discovered this because when I was tapping the threads for the PTF connector I ran the bit through to clean any possible shavings out that might have plugged the tip. Then I discovered the ever so slight edge I speak about and got it before my first use of the hotend.

As anyone else tried this?

Flateric- would you still recommend to try this to resolve a PLA jamming issue.

Polygonhell - did you ever get a replacement hotend? Did you have better luck with it?

Actually no, I would not recommend doing this anymore with the production E3D hotends. The discussion you are quoting here is from a early batch of the hotends and was corrected immediately by E3d. I have bought many more E3D hotends (like a total of 6 now I think) and the issue has not been present in any of the hotend again.

By all means check the bore for it's alignment "smoothness" manufacturing errors can occur to any company at any time. I however strongly doubt that this will be a bore alignment issue. Poly did I believe get a replacement hotend but I am unsure of his satisfaction level with it. I don't want to speak for him, but I believe he came to the conclusion that the E3D did function with PLA but perhaps not to the same level as a genuine J-head hotend for example.

Perhaps he will notice this thread and chime in or you could PM him and ask him to have a look here.

[mhackney]

I can say definitively that my V5 E3D performs amazingly well with PLA. I've got several hundred hours of full-on production printing on it now with nary a jam. Make absolutely sure to set t up by the instructions (heating to 300°C) AND it is critical to get the PTFE Bowden tube seated all the way properly. Check when it is assembled and with no nozzle attached that you can push your filament through with no indication of a snag or excess friction.

[aerouta]

Thanks guys... I guess sometimes it's just the filament. I spent days having printing errors. For some reason the grey PLA jams after a few hours regards what I tried. The wine red PLA printed perfectly the first attempt. I purchased both the red and the grey from the same vendor on eBay.

Now all I need is some primer and an airbrush

[mhackney]

It could be a difference in extrusion temps for these 2 different PLAs. What temp are you printing? Perhaps the grey needs higher or lower.

[MSURunner]

It could be a difference in extrusion temps for these 2 different PLAs. What temp are you printing? Perhaps the grey needs higher or lower.

Dyes CAN affect printing temps. Don't be afraid turn it up a bit and see what happens. The nice thing I've noticed about the E3D is with the active cooling the small heat zone allows for you to turn the heat up without severely degrading retraction performance.

[mhackney]

Agreed MSURunner.

Do the "extrude into air while you twiddle the temperature" test to help figure out the ideal temperature for the filament.

Be systematic. For PLA, I start at 190°C and lower the temp 3° after each successful 50mm extrusion test. If the material extrudes 50mm at 50mm/s then I lower it -looking for the point where the material does not extrude well (skipped steps on the extruder, not a nice bead, etc).

It's good to know what this point is for each of your materials. Then do the reverse, increase by 3° to see how the properties of the extrusion change. When you get the "snap, crackle, pop" with PLA, you are at the upper end.

[aerouta]

Well, I tried the air extrude and it worked fine for a wide range of temps. I can print smaller pieces just fine with the grey. The issue it that it fails several hours into the print. So what seems like the ideal temp during the air extrude test still jams the hotend.

[mhackney]

Can you correlate anything like maybe the room temperature decreasing a few degrees or speeding up the print?

I have found that you do need to go 5°+ hotter with the E3D or you can get starving, etc. It has such a small heated volume and with the thermistor-heater cartridge feedback loop, temps may fluctuate quite a bit in the hot end - no measurements, this is just a hypothesis.

[MSURunner]

Well, I tried the air extrude and it worked fine for a wide range of temps. I can print smaller pieces just fine with the grey. The issue it that it fails several hours into the print. So what seems like the ideal temp during the air extrude test still jams the hotend.

I had a similar issue and noticed it was occurring at a fairly consistent height. Turns out the heated bed was impacting the printing environment and as the height increased and the temperature dropped, the hotend wasn't providing enough heat to cleanly extrude the material.

[mhackney]

aerouta, out of curiosity do you have a part cooling fan mounted on your effector and if so, can you show a photo please.

I just had a problem and though "crap, now I'm jinxed!" that turned out to be related to my fan. It blows sort of pointed down towards the nozzle. As I was printing a long piece with lots of fill that caused the fan to deflect even more up to the nozzle I started getting the "tat, tat, tat" of skipped extruder steps. I turned up the heat and it went away (+5°) then I started investigating and realized the fan position so I turned the fan down to 25% and started dropping the temp again in 3° increments a full 15°! I think the nozzle is pretty isolated from the heater block (and thermistor) that maybe at the very tip it can "freeze" momentarily and lead to a blockage. More work to investigate but turning the fan down solved the problem and salvaged the part.

[aerouta]

aerouta, out of curiosity do you have a part cooling fan mounted on your effector and if so, can you show a photo please.

I just had a problem and though "crap, now I'm jinxed!" that turned out to be related to my fan. It blows sort of pointed down towards the nozzle. As I was printing a long piece with lots of fill that caused the fan to deflect even more up to the nozzle I started getting the "tat, tat, tat" of skipped extruder steps. I turned up the heat and it went away (+5°) then I started investigating and realized the fan position so I turned the fan down to 25% and started dropping the temp again in 3° increments a full 15°! I think the nozzle is pretty isolated from the heater block (and thermistor) that maybe at the very tip it can "freeze" momentarily and lead to a blockage. More work to investigate but turning the fan down solved the problem and salvaged the part.

After an entire weekend of hearing "tat, tat, tat" and knowing that it means a failed print is imminent, I cringe just reading it. I'll snap a photo later this evening. Room temp stayed fairly constant. And the printing environments (heat bed included) were identical between the red and grey prints. mhackney- have you tried all the filaments you purchased from the vendor you bought that red pla from? I am pretty sure we order from the same vendor.

The heat bed may have somthing this do with this. Even though nothing was really noted by the hotend thermistor. I can try and test this.

[mhackney]

It probably is the same vendor since that is the only source of that wine red I've found. I am printing his silver now and all of the others already and they all work fine. But, different pigments are used in each so temperatures can vary. The blue-green prints best 5°C higher than the wine for instance.

When the tat, tat, tat happens, you can help the extruder by manually pushing the filament from below to get it to start to feed again.

One thing I've noticed - I put a little flag (piece of masking tape with black Sharpie on one side) on the shaft of the EZStuder. When I hear this tat, tat, tat I look at that flag and I see that it actually REVERSES about 5-10°. I do not understand that at all. It would take a LOT of force to reverse a stepper like this, stalling happens but on all of my CNC equipment (2 mills, a router and a lathe) I have never seen a stepper reverse when it skips steps. Makes me wonder if there is something in the gcode (using KISS). I am going to peruse some code and see. What slicer are you using?

[dpmacri]

It probably is the same vendor since that is the only source of that wine red I've found. I am printing his silver now and all of the others already and they all work fine. But, different pigments are used in each so temperatures can vary. The blue-green prints best 5°C higher than the wine for instance.

When the tat, tat, tat happens, you can help the extruder by manually pushing the filament from below to get it to start to feed again.

One thing I've noticed - I put a little flag (piece of masking tape with black Sharpie on one side) on the shaft of the EZStuder. When I hear this tat, tat, tat I look at that flag and I see that it actually REVERSES about 5-10°. I do not understand that at all. It would take a LOT of force to reverse a stepper like this, stalling happens but on all of my CNC equipment (2 mills, a router and a lathe) I have never seen a stepper reverse when it skips steps. Makes me wonder if there is something in the gcode (using KISS). I am going to peruse some code and see. What slicer are you using?

Assuming the filament is not going through the hot-end, when the extruder motor finally skips, won't the filament have compressed a bit and essentially act like a spring to push back the stepper? At least that's my theory for when this happens .

[mhackney]

Have you ever tried to move a stepper that is powered up? You have to overcome the holding force which is quite high on these little buggers. The "retract" that I observe is a lot more than the spring effect of compressed PLA could provide. It's an odd thing!

[DavidF]

I also have the masking tape flag on my extruder LOL funny.
As far as the kick back, its a magnetic thing it think. Arrange a set of magnets in a circle N, S, N, S, N, S, And then arrange another set to form an inner circle. The fields will line up north south on the inner and outer rings, once the holding power of the magnets is broken the magnets will re align to the next field.....Hope that makes sense...

[dpmacri]

Have you ever tried to move a stepper that is powered up? You have to overcome the holding force which is quite high on these little buggers. The "retract" that I observe is a lot more than the spring effect of compressed PLA could provide. It's an odd thing!

Yeah, they're tough little buggers . But perhaps the skipping is due to an overheated mosfet and so the motor loses all of it's holding power momentarily while the mosfet shuts itself down for a split second .

[neurascenic]

Using a Kapton flag here.

[geneb]

What you're seeing is is a classic "skipping" extruder.

What happens is that it's unable to feed filament into the hot end at the rate it's currently doing it and the filament and bowden combine to make a spring that at a certain point will make the stepper motor reverse direction for a short distance when it's in the middle of a forward step. You'll see the bowden tube bounce a tiny amount when this happens - that's the "spring" releasing its energy into the stepper motor. The lower the drive current, the more easily a stepper will skip.

The skipping is caused by a filament restriction of some kind - be it feeding too fast for the temperature, a partial or complete clog, or a thick spot in the filament increasing the friction in the bowden or hot end itself.

g.

[mhackney]

Interesting Gene, I've never seen this reversing behavior on skipping extruders. The Steve's extruder and Greg's extruder just skipped without reversing. Maybe its related to geared vs direct drive? At 200 steps per revolution and 16 micro steps, a skipped step would be very little movement.

I'm wondering, now that I am paying close attention, if the grooves the extruder leaves on the surface of the filament might not snag somewhere - maybe a transition from PTFE to PTC or hot end, and that can be fairly random based on geometry. I have been continuously measuring the input diameter of my filament and it is very consistent and when you look in the Bowden, there is lots of free space (which in itself is a problem with hysteresis). With the E3D, this tube goes right down to the hot end so there is nothing in the path except the PTC at the extruder end and the hot end itself. The hot end ID is right at 2mm I believe (from a visual inspection) so maybe the fuzz raised on the filament can snag the edge randomly.

The PTFE tubing provided with the Kraken and E3D have a much smaller ID, plenty of room for the filament but not the kind of excess the stock PTFE has. I haven't switched over to this material yet.