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My Slic3r Results

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:24 pm
by cquinby
Lurking on the Yahoo groups learning what I can and now decided it was time to share my experience.

I am running the complete kit with the bearing upgrade. Printing 1.75mm ABS to an acrylic plate with blue painters tape.

Things I have noticed that make a huge difference in print quality. (Some say setting the machine up in metric is a must but I believe this to be a myth, I set it up both ways and it works fine either way).

Mach3 Settings:

1. Get your steps per as accurate as possible, measure and measure again. (Use the axis calibration in the Settings tab of Mach3)
2. Figure your backlash in all three axis. Try to get as much out as possible but there will always be some to deal with.
3. Once you reduce your backlash as much as possible it is time to setup Mach3's backlash comp (works great on these machines). Set the backlash of each axis, set Speed % to 100. Now go into General config and set your shuttle accell to 0.005 (if this number is larger it starts causing pausing during direction changes).
4. Save your settings. (I usually exit Mach3 and restart it just to be sure the changes took.
5. After you calibrate your extruder (do this at about 50mm/min) Go into motor tuning and set your velocity for A axis as high as you can without loosing steps and put the accell to about 50% of your max velocity. I found by doing this I could eliminate bulges in the filament when the X and Y stop to raise the Z axis to the next level. For example, right now my velocity is set to about 1600mm/min and accell is set to 800mm/sec. When I get to the Slic3r settings I will explain how the previous values help.
6. Save your settings again!
Now your Mach3 should be setup pretty well.

Slic3r settings that I use:

I have a few profiles, 0.3mm layer height, 0.25mm, 0.2mm, 0.15mm, 0.10mm (still working on this one).

What I have noticed is that I can go faster when at lower layer heights (more consistent fill rates).

Print Settings tab:
First layer height ratio set to 0.9
Retraction set to 3mm (this is where the faster velocity of the A axis comes into play along withe fast acceleration this prevents blobs when changing layer height and moving from one area of the print to the next) This one setting dramatically changed my prints.

Lets key in on the Printer and Filament tab:
The figures I have changed from the default SeeMeCNC config are:
Nozzle Diameter 0.490mm (this was done as the top layer was not completely filling all voids.
Measure your filament! Mine is 0.168mm
Perimeters set to 35 for 0.2mm and lower and 30 for 0.25 and 0.30mm layer heights.
I found Bridge set to 25 worked great (see the cubes below).
Solid infill set to 30
Infill set to 40

As I drop layer height I increase speeds a few mm/sec. Adjust to your liking.

With all this the only issue I have is lifting in corners as I don't have a heat bed yet (well I do but need to modify the machine to make it fit). Lifting is minimal now that I am wiping down the blue tape with acetone.

Extruder temp measured on top side of the aluminum is around 425 degrees F.

Here is Vader key chain done at 0.30mm layer hegiht
0.30mm Layer height
0.30mm Layer height
Here is two cubes, one done before calibrating axis and setting backlash comp in mach at 0.30mm (left) and the second done at 0.20mm to the right. Notice the improvement in the bridge!
cube1.jpeg
cube2.jpeg
Lastly two tone whistle done at 0.15mm layer height. I was astonished with this one, it was the best print yet!
whistle.jpeg
I hope this helps some folks out! Been at this for a week and finally feeling like the parts are coming out as expected. Now off to modify the H1 to accept a MK1 heat bed!

Re: My Slic3r Results

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:26 pm
by Chris Muncy
Great write-up Chris!

Can you post the Mach3 settings that you are using? They will be the same for all of us (with the exception of those building a tank...)

Screenshots would be great too.

Re: My Slic3r Results

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:43 pm
by Dave_Sohlstrom
LOL

Re: My Slic3r Results

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:35 am
by cquinby
Chris Muncy wrote:Great write-up Chris!

Can you post the Mach3 settings that you are using? They will be the same for all of us (with the exception of those building a tank...)

Screenshots would be great too.
Chris,

Ya I can do that. Settings won't be the same (Trust me, every machine is a little different) but it should get folks in the ballpark. For example, the base H1 file that was out on the Yahoo Groups did not work for me at all. When I did a 20mm test cube the dimensions were actually 16mm x 21mm when printed. Once this happened I spent a few hours trying to get my steps per as accurate as possible. Getting accurate settings is much easier on my CNC mill as you have easy ways to setup measuring devices, little tricky with the H1 but was able to do it.

I have some work to do this morning and will try and get some screen shots posted later today.

Re: My Slic3r Results

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:33 pm
by cquinby
OK, here we go loading up screen shots!

Calibration: Found in the Settings Tab
calibration.jpg
calibration.jpg (17.78 KiB) Viewed 20625 times
Resulting motor tuning from calibration
x axis.jpg
y axis.jpg
z axis.jpg
Calibrate A Axis will 100mm/min or less to get a accurate steps per setting. I guess my Accell is higher than I stated above... Problem with trying to remember info! LOL
a axis.jpg
backlash.jpg
general config.jpg
Slic3r Settings for 0.3mm layer hieght (just what I started working from)
slic3r print settings.jpg
slic3r printer and filament.jpg
slic3r start end.jpg
Hope this helps.

Re: My Slic3r Results

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:44 pm
by Chris Muncy
Very nice.

How did you determine your backlash?

Re: My Slic3r Results

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:59 pm
by cquinby
Dial indicator or DTI on each axis and coverted to mm from inches.

El Hoss has a good video on the concept. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buXHZ_McbOY

Re: My Slic3r Results

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:00 pm
by mhackney
"El Hoss" - I love it!

For those of you not in the know, Hoss is a legend on the Benchtop forum on CNCZone. Then man is amazingly talented. He's done all sorts of CNC conversions, auto tool changers, etc. He's working on 3D printers now. Primarily a Prusia that he built. He just competed a double extruder for doing 2 colors.

cheers,
Michael

Re: My Slic3r Results

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:14 pm
by cquinby
mhackney wrote:"El Hoss" - I love it!

For those of you not in the know, Hoss is a legend on the Benchtop forum on CNCZone. Then man is amazingly talented. He's done all sorts of CNC conversions, auto tool changers, etc. He's working on 3D printers now. Primarily a Prusia that he built. He just competed a double extruder for doing 2 colors.

cheers,
Michael
Figured you would catch that one Michael! :lol: Wonder if and when he will build his H1...

Re: My Slic3r Results

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:40 pm
by Chris Muncy
Wasn't he known by another handle on youtube and something happened?

Re: My Slic3r Results

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:32 pm
by Dave_Sohlstrom
Chris Q

Just watched the video. do you recall how much backlash you found on your machine?

I will be testing this next chance I get.

Re: My Slic3r Results

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:36 pm
by cquinby
not sure... I started chatting with Hoss about a year ago when I bought his plans for the G0704 conversion. Now I'm working on a belt conversion and I think i have bad bearings in the head stock, can't get over 4,300 rpm when I'm geared for 8,000... Got some new bearing sitting on the dining room table, just need to find time to isntall.

Re: My Slic3r Results

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:45 pm
by Dave_Sohlstrom
I should of said H-1.

Do you fly helos. I soloed a hughs 300 way back in 1980 then ran out of money.

Re: My Slic3r Results

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:30 pm
by cquinby
Dave_Sohlstrom wrote:Chris Q

Just watched the video. do you recall how much backlash you found on your machine?

I will be testing this next chance I get.
Sorry Dave, missed your post!!! :roll:

I have the backlash figures in a screen shot on the previous page. They are in mm as that is what the machine is currently setup in. To be honest I left my machine a little loose, I tried to tighten up the belts and did not like the results. Maybe the skatebearing mod will allow me to tighten up the backlash but for now this is working good.

Re: My Slic3r Results

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:34 pm
by cquinby
Dave_Sohlstrom wrote:I should of said H-1.

Do you fly helos. I soloed a hughs 300 way back in 1980 then ran out of money.
Sore subject.... I have once and figured it would drain my pocket book faster than all my other hobbies combined (firearms, motorcycles, rc helis, rc helis, rc helis... you get the picture). I build and fly Scale RC helicopters and fly those instead. Not sure that they are any cheaper though. Operating miniature turbines is a little pricey...

Ever get bored and want to see the crazy crap people build on my forum go check it out and don't, let me repeat that, DO NOT start that hobby.... :D http://www.scalerchelis.com

Re: My Slic3r Results

Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:14 am
by Fastest1
Chris Muncy wrote:Wasn't he known by another handle on youtube and something happened?
HossMachine is his Youtube name. He hasnt had any issues there but there were a few problems on the Zone at 1 time but they have been cleared up now. I credit myself with motivating Hoss to jump into the 3D printer world as I had seen them at a Houston Hackerspace meeting and was amazed. He ignored me until Xnaron showed a well printed cover with a switch mount he made for his G0704. When Hoss saw the quality, he was in! He will bring some great ideas and his execution speeds are incredible. To think he is active on at least 2 threads that change dramatically every day. He always has some additions to each project. Meth?

Re: My Slic3r Results

Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:31 pm
by Chris Muncy
I really need/want/should go to the houston hacker space.....

Maybe we should meet up there.

Re: My Slic3r Results

Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:08 pm
by JTCUSTOMS
Fastest1 wrote:
Chris Muncy wrote:Wasn't he known by another handle on youtube and something happened?
HossMachine is his Youtube name. He hasnt had any issues there but there were a few problems on the Zone at 1 time but they have been cleared up now. I credit myself with motivating Hoss to jump into the 3D printer world as I had seen them at a Houston Hackerspace meeting and was amazed. He ignored me until Xnaron showed a well printed cover with a switch mount he made for his G0704. When Hoss saw the quality, he was in! He will bring some great ideas and his execution speeds are incredible. To think he is active on at least 2 threads that change dramatically every day. He always has some additions to each project. Meth?

I think we all would get a lot more done with 24hrs a day at home, and no wifey! lol

Re: My Slic3r Results

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:49 am
by Hossmachine
JTCUSTOMS wrote:
Fastest1 wrote:
Chris Muncy wrote:Wasn't he known by another handle on youtube and something happened?
HossMachine is his Youtube name. He hasnt had any issues there but there were a few problems on the Zone at 1 time but they have been cleared up now. I credit myself with motivating Hoss to jump into the 3D printer world as I had seen them at a Houston Hackerspace meeting and was amazed. He ignored me until Xnaron showed a well printed cover with a switch mount he made for his G0704. When Hoss saw the quality, he was in! He will bring some great ideas and his execution speeds are incredible. To think he is active on at least 2 threads that change dramatically every day. He always has some additions to each project. Meth?

I think we all would get a lot more done with 24hrs a day at home, and no wifey! lol

I got more done than you when I WAS working too. Now I'm disabled in a wheelchair i have time at home
but can't get access to most of my equipment in the basement. I'm stuck working out of a spare bedroom, I have to order everything online because I can't run out to the store and yes i don't have a wifey to do the cooking and cleaning. Yeah I got it easy don't I. :roll: Got plenty of time now for the new hobby since I can't use the time going out shopping, dinner or movies, visiting family and friends, working the yard, etc,etc. KMA.

Re: My Slic3r Results

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:01 pm
by JTCUSTOMS
Hoss, that statement was not meant to be disrespectful. Take it any way you want though as you have done in the past.
Was the KMA really necessary? Why such hostility?
Anyway, I hope you can gain some mobility to access your basement machine shop.

Re: My Slic3r Results

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:21 pm
by Hossmachine
JTCUSTOMS wrote:Hoss, that statement was not meant to be disrespectful. Take it any way you want though as you have done in the past.
Was the KMA really necessary? Why such hostility?
Anyway, I hope you can gain some mobility to access your basement machine shop.
I call BS, you knew my situation from cnczone and knew i'm home 24hrs and why yet you think it's
something to lol about. you've been hatin for a long time and need to grow up cornbinder23.
Hoss

Re: My Slic3r Results

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:47 pm
by JTCUSTOMS
Call BS all you want, I do not pay attention to your personal life or situation, I have said it before and I will say it again you offer a great deal of inspiration and a wealth of knowledge to people in this hobby. I am not hating.

BTW, here is 1 of they MANY messages I received after our last "discussion"

I just had to smile...
When I saw Hoss dumping on you in the 'move the 3D printer threads' discussion, I just had to smile, because I've been in that same position before (along with other frequent cnczone contributors as well).

While Hoss has made tremendous contributions to hobby-level cnc machining, he is notoriously thin-skinned with a super-short fuse, apparently able to dish it out but unable to take it, completely unable to gracefully admit when he is in the wrong, totally unable to take a gentle hint, bears a grudge seemingly forever, and can be astonishingly humorless at times. At times it seems like he's playing a game of "good Hoss, bad Hoss".

But my interpretation of your comments (and the embedded smileys) leads me to believe that you have just the right attitude for dealing with his obtuseness. It's not necessary to be a cult-of-Hoss member - it's perfectly OK to take the good stuff while discarding the trash.

That is all... :-)


Have you ever received any messages like this about me? Just curious ;)

Re: My Slic3r Results

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:12 am
by Hossmachine
I can probably guess the 2 or 3 other haters just like you that message came from who just like you are always reading my threads but instead of appreciating the info, for some reason feel the need to put me down.Would you like to read the hundreds of complimentary emails and PM's I get thanking me for my help.
a few bad apples are to be expected,.maybe if your threads were as popular you'd gather your own group of haters that have no real reason to hate but for envy. Just like here, someone gave me a compliment and your response is a put down.
ever hear the phrase, if you don't have anything nice to say, say nothing. a good motto you might want to adopt.
Hoss

Re: My Slic3r Results

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:41 am
by michaellatif
*sigh* really fellas? You are going to hold a pissing match here on the SeeMeCNC forum?
I for one don't care about who said what to who about anyone. Take it private. Please.

-Mike
P.S. If I were a moderator you two could consider this a warning, next time I would ban you. Just food for thought ;-).

Re: My Slic3r Results

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:52 am
by JTCUSTOMS
Fellow seemecnc'rs I apologize for airing dirty laundry here.
Won't happen again.

Dun!!