Controller options?

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:32 pm

I'm just poking around to see what other control options there are. I do not want to continue with Arduino based boards. The firmware is spaghetti. I love the Smoothie firmware, very clean and relatively easy to develop new modules, I even contributed one last year (TemperatureSwitch). But, I don't know if it's my board or what but I have not been able to print more than 3 successful prints with the smoothieboard since getting it last May. I've fought and fought with it and I REALLY want it to work. I just don't know if I have a haunted board or if something else is up.

I do know that my board out of the box had issues. It had the wrong current set resistor on the extruder driver. The smoothie guys mailed me a replacement surface mount resistor and I replaced that. That was 4 weeks of pain and agony to figure out. Then, I went through 4 failed SD cards. Turned out to be a solder bridge on the USB port that shorted randomly. Another 6 weeks of pain to figure out. There were a couple of other little gremlins and by August I shelved it and the mini kossel I built as my smoothie development and hotend test printer. Last week I finally decided to beat the beast as I really need another printer to experiment with while my Rostock is churning out fly fishing reels.

I upgraded to the new software, calibrated the kossel and actually got 3 good prints in a row! And they were really quite nice prints. Then things turned south again. Running from a Mac, the SD card mounts automatically if you connect via USB. If you forget to unmount before resetting the board, there is more than a low probability of corrupting the SD card. I wanted to avoid that so investigated the ethernet connection. Turns out it sort of works. Unfortunately, ethernet support is a little mish-mash. I can't upload gcode via the built in web server. The python file transfer script timed out and I had to modify it to allow transferring files to the board over tcp. That took a few days to figure out and just when I did yesterday, my board is failing again. When I start a print, the extruder goes haywire - fast forward, stops, fast forward - and way over extrudes filament and ultimately skips steps and eats the filament at the hobbed gear. I checked all the wiring and connector, no change. I temporarily hooked up a different known good stepper motor with all new harness and connector. It was not attached to the extruder, just a simple test. It also goes haywire. I refreshed the firmware with known good working and the config and config-default files but still having issues.

So, back to the original question, are there any other (high quality) alternatives and if so, which ones. I'd prefer a reasonably modern and advanced firmware. The Arduino model is broken - you should be able to save a binary image to upload later or to recover from without needing to recompile. Smoothie is great in that way, all configuration is done in the config text file. The firmware binary does not get touched unless you want to upgrade it when new features or fixes come out. And when you do, it uses the same config file so you don't have to reconstruct your config overtime.

Cheers,
Michael

JFettig · Post by **JFettig** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:46 pm

Sounds like you just need to start over with the smoothie.

Other options are BBB capes, I'm picking up a smoothie for my next project but I really considered BBB and Replicape but in the end I decided I don't want to mess with linux again(always seems to be more work than its worth to run)

The only other board that has interested me is the Alligator board but it doesn't seem to be available yet.

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:05 pm

What firmware does the BBB use?

Yeah, now I'm between a rock and hard place with the infamous "group buy" for smoothie boards. I'm in on it but it might be a while before the discount code goes out. I'm a bit impatient right now, I have time now that I might not have in a week or two.

JFettig · Post by **JFettig** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:11 pm

BBB uses linuxcnc, or Machinekit which is a linuxcnc build, its an actual CNC controller

BBB=beaglebone black if you happened to miss that

Yeah... I'm kinda wondering how that group buy will actually work.

teoman · Post by **teoman** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:27 pm

I was pondering the same thing. But the price is good, and you never know when the rambo might fail. So having it as a spare would be advantageous.

I also have my eyes on the repli cape but it is not that widespread yet. I would prefer other to get one and figure out how to get it to work with our rostocks. I know that is selfish but unfortunately I just don't have the luxury of investing time in to that at the moment.

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:50 pm

Yup, I knew that BBB was not better business bureau!

Wolfmanjm has stepped in to save the day. Par for the course for me...

Apparently the ezStruder steps per mm config (92.4) is too low and odd things can happen. This was fixed recently and the latest edge Firmware.bin IS WORKING (yah!). Now I am trying to figure out why my fork build is failing.

Post by **Eaglezsoar** » Sat Feb 14, 2015 4:46 pm

Michael, do you remember the value of the new current set resistor that they sent you?

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Sat Feb 14, 2015 4:49 pm

Nope, they didn't tell me either. It was a mistake on my board. I'm not aware of any others with this issue.

johnoly99 · Post by **johnoly99** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 7:41 pm

FYI guys,

I spent last weekend up in Detroit at i3 with none other than Jason Kridner (@Jadon) aka the founder of Beagleboard.org We set up a Rostock MAX v2 and had it running controlled motion with The BBB and BeBoPr original shield. I started a github repo for our work on it, so you could be able to replicate our results. Unfortunately we ran out of time, and the weather wasn't cooperating for our drive home so we didn't get any actual printing done, but we did have motion and fairly NICE at that!

Also, Whoisjoecarr stopped by Friday night too, and picked up the Lansing Library's Orion.

Check our facebook and twitter pages and vine for pics and videos
https://www.facebook.com/seemecnc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's a link to the repo on github
https://github.com/seemecnc/beaglestock" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; There isn't much in there except a link to the SD card image we used. It's machinekit, so most but not ALL of the linuxCNC stuff translates as far as documentation goes. It's obviously not mainstream yet by any means, but it's a big jump towards Beaglebone powered 3D printers, at least in my book

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 7:46 pm

Hey John, I watched your BBB progress on Facebook. It looks very interesting. From a developer's perspective I really like the purpose-built smoothie firmware. The code is very modular and it is quite easy to extend. But, smoothie is already running out of umph with it's V1 hardware and it will be a while before the v2 hardware is available.

Quick question on the BBB firmware, are machine specific configurations compiled in like repeater and marlin or in a configuration file like smoothie? Once you work with a config file it is a major pain to go back to compiled configurations!

Cheers,
Michael

ps - check out the progress I've made with DropLit in my build thread!

bubbasnow · Post by **bubbasnow** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:00 pm

i got bbb and bebopr++ running on my big delta.. love it, they are always tinkering with stuff on the Google groups and willing to implement change if something needs it.

as for the machine configurations they are loaded every instance via hal/ini... you can use the same machine with different configs with different layouts. for example when i have the laser on i dont use the extruders/thermistors/hotends so i totally remove them from my config. and when i print i just load a different machine.

because its running Linux, i just setup a network folder, and save my slice/dxf and hit the print button.

stock bebopr++ can only drive 4 steppers, i got peppr so i could do 5 (dual extrusion), and i hear you can even get up to 10 with a mux board

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:05 pm

I've looked all over and can't find where to buy a BBB and BeBoPr setup. Where did you get yours?

bubbasnow · Post by **bubbasnow** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:08 pm

i emailed Bas directly, he ships from EU, i think there were some vendors stateside that were selling the bebopr-bridge but ++ is newer

https://github.com/modmaker/BeBoPr/wiki ... -plus-Cape

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:16 pm

Thanks. That's too bad that distribution a year after the board was released is still so limited. The forum "where announcements will be made" has not been updated for almost a year. Is this shield viable? are there any alternatives that are more mainstream?

thanks,
Michael

bubbasnow · Post by **bubbasnow** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:30 pm

Yea that site is abandoned. he is very active on the MK google groups site instead. i see people doing group buys on the delta forums often. I've had no issues with it, and great correspondence when i need help through email. CRAMPS is an alternative, but i don't know what Charles Steinkuehler has for stock on these. http://blog.machinekit.io/

bdjohns1 · Post by **bdjohns1** » Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:06 pm

I've had pretty good luck (a couple dozen decent prints - haven't been running my printer much lately) running with a Smoothie hooked up to a BBB that's running Octoprint. I was using a Raspberry Pi to run Octo for a while, but the USB/ethernet shared bus made for painfully slow uploads at times, and some other random weirdness.

The BBB is pretty solid driving the Smoothieboard, and I don't have to worry about the SD card mount issues and such. Plus, if I do decide to go to a MachineKit setup at some point, well, I've already got the BBB part.

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:47 pm

That's interesting! My experience with the RPi running Octoprint was also not that great. I liked Octoprint though. I like this idea and will likely give it a shot.

I also did exchange emails with Bas, he's traveling this week but will send me pricing next week.

Regards,
Michael

Batteau62 · Post by **Batteau62** » Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:01 pm

-Bump
Ok, I'm posting this- https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... Nqs_S-zEBY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; -here because I want one

but also because I'm bumping this to see if anyone has any new "realistic" controller options, other than those discussed. Particularly wondering if there are any dual processor options like this board: https://www.amaker3d.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; I realize it's custom to their printer but I like the dual processor logic. I also get that the cost would go up. I personally would pay more for a board/controller that has lots-o-horsepower.

kevinbragg · Post by **kevinbragg** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:39 am

I use a BeagleBone Black with the BeBoPr++ running LinuxCNC in the MachineKit image. I agree that the hardware has "limited" vendors, however, Bas is very responsive. In fact just today I emailed him because I blew a fuse with my SeeMeCNC heated bed running too high a current from my power supply. He responded in hours with the exact specification of the fuse (which was also in the manual) but included links where I could buy replacements, and even said he'd ship me one if worst came to worst.

I have no 3D printing experience, and jumped in feet first at the BBB + BeBoPr solution. So far I haven't had any regrets.

bubbasnow · Post by **bubbasnow** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:23 am

kevinbragg wrote:I use a BeagleBone Black with the BeBoPr++ running LinuxCNC in the MachineKit image. I agree that the hardware has "limited" vendors, however, Bas is very responsive. In fact just today I emailed him because I blew a fuse with my SeeMeCNC heated bed running too high a current from my power supply. He responded in hours with the exact specification of the fuse (which was also in the manual) but included links where I could buy replacements, and even said he'd ship me one if worst came to worst.

I have no 3D printing experience, and jumped in feet first at the BBB + BeBoPr solution. So far I haven't had any regrets.

try to keep an eye out for a d1d40 crydom ssr, you can use it to pass the bed currents without blowing the board fuse.

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:10 am

Thanks guys. It looks like the BBB with a cape is probably the only other viable option right now. I just really have a high degree of reluctance to go down the Linux path for the controller. I've worked with Linux since almost Day 1 for servers, desktops, embedded systems and even machine control and it has been a PIA every step of the way. Purpose built controllers like Smoothie are so much simpler, especially from a development perspective. No extra cape to decide on, purchase, configure, etc. As close to an Arduino-based controller plug and play option as could be and perhaps even easier given the configuration is not compiled in.

I suppose this dearth of higher end controllers is an example of supply & demand. If there were reasonable demand, someone would have a more mainstream (i.e. in distribution) solution by now.

Bas has been very helpful answering emails and I look forward to getting pricing from him this week now that he is back. Not sure what I'm going to do yet, my primary hesitation is really the Linux OS. I should probably spend some time looking at that. Is there an emulator for MachineKit or can you run it in a VM to explore does anyone know?

JFettig · Post by **JFettig** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:43 am

How straight forward is it to configure a BBB with linuxcnc to run a delta? If the smoothie group buy takes much longer I might give up on it and get a BBB.

teoman · Post by **teoman** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:56 am

Get a BBB anyways.

You can always use it for something else.

JFettig · Post by **JFettig** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:29 am

You're right, it would be silly to not have one

JFettig · Post by **JFettig** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:07 pm

Just bought a BBB Rev C, CRAMPS from Pico Systems and 5x DRV8825 drivers. I think I'm going to skip the smoothie.
My shopping list:
http://amzn.com/B00LC1924G" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://amzn.com/B0044QMAFY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://amzn.com/B0060AU5MW" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://amzn.com/B003MTTJOY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://pico-systems.com/osc2.5/catalog/ ... ucts_id=35" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.pololu.com/category/154/drv ... gh-current" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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