Analog_Banana's Rostock Max in the UK

[analog_banana]

Hi all - this isn'y going to be an ultra-comprehensive build log - I'll just cover any changes I come across in the UK edition of the Rostock Max, and anything unusual that crops up..

I bought a Rostock Max from http://creativemachines.co.uk/store/index.php
They were very helpful, Machine was available instantly from stock, Delivery was 2 days, good courier, well packaged, all parts were present, so top marks all-round.

UK Rostock kit differences (for the MDF version):

Due to some Melamine-relatetd health laws it seems we can't have laser-cut Melamine-faced MDF here,
So the laser cut parts are bare MDF, which has in my eyes, a slightly unsightly "burnt toast" look.
So I roller painted all the MDF parts with black B&Q MDF paint. (£18 for 500ml - phew!)
Using a mini-roller was the way to go - The finish is not beautiful, but it's smooth, no brush marks and looks a bit more presentable.

The Acetal Bearing covers were black rather than the white ones in the build guide, so watch out for that - I initially thought they were missing.
Also, the T-slot nuts are nickel/chrome square in my kit - in the build guide they are black rounded rectangles.

Build has been going ok - I'm not rushing it, the sanding of the joints is a pain, but I think I'm there..

I'm having a hard time mounting the Cheapskates, so I will have a quick search for solutions on the board, then post photos of the build...

[analog_banana]

So I've assembled the cheapskates - but once fitted onto the rails I can't tighten the axle supports enough to fit the rails - It's like the bearing covers are too fat, or the rail is too thick - I need to be able to tighten the axle support bolts by about 4mm more..

See attached jpg.. Click on it to see a higher-res image...

AnalogBanana Rostock Max

[ApacheXMD]

You tighten these axle supports last just to to tighten everything up. They don't tighten all the way

[analog_banana]

Ok - the reason I'm worried is in geneB's pdf manual the whole assemble seems to fit together tightly - the axle support is flush, whereas I cannot close that gap..

geneB's example below...

[foshon]

I suffered from the same confusion initially. It is difficult to see in the picture but there is a gap. Please forgive my handwriting that is horrible even when drawing with a mousepad.

[img]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8123/8630799577_973223bfc4_n.jpg[/img]
gap by foshon, on Flickr

[analog_banana]

Good news then, thanks for the advice Foshon! I'm going to keep building..

On closer examination, I found that all my axle supports have (I don't know what to call it) "laser skew"
i.e. the cut sides are not true square, as if the laser cutter took the cut at a slight angle.

It's definitely not helping with precision, but I will attempt to compensate..

[analog_banana]

Seems to be working now - quite a nice action - no slop and tension is adjustable via the axle support scres.

All this confirmed by the vendor, and he says he'll look into the laser cutter skewing.

extra tip:

get a Lazy Susan -
Put the Rostock Max on Lazy Susan while assembling - saves a lot of time by all rails instantly accessible for adjustment.

[foshon]

MHackney posted something refering to the method that a laser cuts ends up in tapered cuts. Its a cone not a line, or something to that affect.

[geneb]

Scroll down to "Beam Angle" on this page -> http://spikenzielabs.com/SpikenzieLabs/ ... ow_To.html and you'll see EXACTLY what is going on.

If you're seeing a significant angle on the cut parts, it's likely because the laser has gotten out of focus. It won't take much at the power levels they're using to put a steep angle on that kerf.

g.

[Bluemalu]

I don't feel so alone this side of the pond, good to see how you dealt with the MDF, I coated mine with Rustins.
How's the build going? Did you shim any parts? I spent a day applying 6mm melamine shims to reduce the slack in pegs (did I waste my time?)
I got white acetal bits, not sure if they are done in the UK or it's just the framework.
The first cheapskate I mounted I thought was OK till I did the second one and that had minimal play, to make life easier I applied a drop of superglue to the axle support bolts.

[analog_banana]

Hi BlueMalu,
I didn't shim any parts - I didn't find much play in the slots - less than half a mm each side of most.
I did use some tiny brass shim washers to compensate for oversanding on the arm joins.
I'm trying to calibrate the Onyx bed now.. But I can't get this command to work in Repetier:

M303 P1 S60

It's supposed to tune the onyx bed, but it just tunes the hot end again - I dunno if this is cos the UK kits come with Ramps rather than Rambo.

[analog_banana]

Major update: First Print
Apparently it's not essential to tune the bed, so I moved on to trying a test print:

NEED... MORE... PLASTIC...
I'm not getting enough filament out of the nozzle...

What I know id probably correrct:
Temperature = correct - nozzle is heating up to 185 degrees (0.5 mm nozzle)
Feedrate = correrct - If I type in 100mm to the repetier extrude box, Steve's Extruder spits out exactly 100mm of filament.

What may be wrong?
Steve's extruder is not gripping the filament hard enough - while it can extrude 100mm with no load, maybe the load of squeezing it through
a tiny hole is making it slip, maybe I need to tighten the feed jaws?
Maybe there is an obstruction in the hot end / teflon sleeve inside the hot end?
Maybe I have the settings wrong in the firmware / slicer / repetier settings.
Maybe some other thing?

If anyone has any tips I'd be really grateful

[foshon]

Will it extrude in free air? I have read that some users of Steve's extruder mark the filament so that there is a visual indicator of slippage. You may want to try increasing temps a bit (5 degrees at a time), I have a spool of PLA that needs 195 to extrude well.

[analog_banana]

Thanks Foshon,
It will extrude into free air - but maybe not producing as much filament as I'd expect.
The motorised feeding of filament seems robust - so I think the hot end temp may be the issue.
I'm using "Jet" PLA from Amazon.co.uk - as that's currently the only next day filament vendor I can find. Maybe it needs a higher temp.

I have a "Rainbow Fun Pack" on the way from Faberdashery and 1.2kg of white PLS from Replicator Warehouse, so I will be able to try a few options soon.

Creative Machines have been very helpful as always, so I have a series of checks to perform..

[analog_banana]

So I've been testing the hot end temperature with a digital meat thermometer.
It has a probe that's just the right size to drop down to the end of the extruder barrel with the teflon tube removed.
See photo..

Is this likely to give me an accurate temperature reading?

Here are the results:

thermistor says 220c >>>> meat thermometer = 203c
thermistor says 190c >>>> meat thermometer = 178c
thermistor says 95c >>>> meat thermometer = 89c
thermistor says 30c >>>> meat thermometer = 30c

The Salter Digital Meat thermometer has a range of 0-230c
Perhaps more accurate than the thermistor in my hot end?
The thermistor readings match at 30c, but diverge by 17c at the upper working temperatures...

So for now I will be assuming a reading of 203c is actually 190c.

[foshon]

You can check the accuracy of your probe by measuring boiling water, mine read 99C. If it is accurate there are a handful of different thermistors to try in the firmware. The setting is a single digit selection in the Configuration.h file.

[analog_banana]

First Print!

I made the following changes:
set repetier to 203c (which measures as 190c)
Switched to Faberdashery Red PLA from their Rainbow Fun Pack
Added a 12v Peek fan to the hot end.

Not sure which change made the difference, but something's working,
The banding is caused by the peek fan switching itself off every few minutes.

I have the 12v 25mm fan runnnig from D9 on the Ramps 1.4 - Which also seems to stop the heated bed reaching specified temperature.
I'm searching for the right pins and method to run the peek fan.

The cube actually looks a lot better in real life - just the fan thing making it irregular.
There's plenty of room for improvement, but vertical resolution and accuracy is looking very promising

Thanks for the forum help..

[cambo3d]

i can't stress enough how important it is to calibrate your hotend temperature with a thermocouple meter, to what your reading in rephost.

if you don't do this you will never know how accurate your temperatures are and it will effect your print quality

[analog_banana]

Cool time to calibrate a bit more I guess - Can anyone recomend a good, cheap thermocouple meter or probe thermometer for this task?

[Eaglezsoar]

http://www.amazon.com/Channel-Digital-T ... hermometer

or

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0084J ... d_i=507846

[kbob]

Cool time to calibrate a bit more I guess - Can anyone recomend a good, cheap thermocouple meter or probe thermometer for this task?

I got an Extech MN35 from Amazon. I see that Amazon.co.uk also carries it. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Extech-MN35-Dig ... xtech+mn35

The manufacturer claims that it is accurate to ±1℃.

The US version includes the thermocouple probe. Amazon.co.uk did not state that the UK version has those, so check carefully.

Here is the US URL. http://www.amazon.com/Extech-MN35-Digit ... tech+mn-35

[kbob]

Oops, Eaglezsoar beat me to it (by over eight hours!)

[cambo3d]

amprobe tmd50 works good for me.
http://www.amazon.com/industrial-scient ... B005GFHYA8

[analog_banana]

Thanks for all the recomendations!

I've purchased dual-probe thermometer similar to Eaglezsoar's recomendation.
It was £16.99 - only £3 more than the meat thermometer I was using,
which will now be sanitized and returned to the kitchen.
Now I just have to wait for it's successor to show up...

[analog_banana]

So I bought the thermometer described above.
The calibration checks out to about 1 degree in boiling water and crushed ice.
But...
The probes have black heatshrink insulation on the end that has the text 125c printed on
- so I'm guessing this heatshrink on the probes will melt as soon as I put them in the hot end..

Has anyone experienced this with K-Type probes?
I'm going to remove the heatshrink - I can't see any reason to risk leaving it on...
The length of the probes is covered in woven fiberglass sleeving that looks like it would be fine for high temperatures.