Anyone tried polyetherimide sheeting over their borosilicate glass when printing ABS? ABS is supposed to adhere to this material really good when its heated and release easily when it's cooled down.
Here's a few links:
(Note the 2 reviews on Amazon praising this material for 3D printing with ABS):
http://www.amazon.com/Polyetherimide-Op ... roduct_top
McMaster sells the stuff too:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#ultem-sheets/=nq38pq
These guys use it too, but it's reinforced with glass for continuous use (scroll down a little on the right to read about their print surface):
http://kuehlingkuehling.de/shop/kuehlin ... inter-kit/
I've been primarily printing PLA, but going to start soon w/ ABS so I'm wondering if this polyetherimide stuff will make my 3D printing life easier? Any thoughts?
Polyetherimide Bed for Easy ABS Release
-
inventabuild
- Printmaster!
- Posts: 137
- Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 10:53 pm
Re: Polyetherimide Bed for Easy ABS Release
Save your money and use Aquanet extreme hold hairspray.
g.
g.
Delta Power!
Defeat the Cartesian Agenda!
http://www.f15sim.com - 80-0007, The only one of its kind.
http://geneb.simpits.org - Technical and Simulator Projects
Defeat the Cartesian Agenda!
http://www.f15sim.com - 80-0007, The only one of its kind.
http://geneb.simpits.org - Technical and Simulator Projects
Re: Polyetherimide Bed for Easy ABS Release
inventabuild wrote:Anyone tried polyetherimide sheeting over their borosilicate glass when printing ABS? ABS is supposed to adhere to this material really good when its heated and release easily when it's cooled down.
Here's a few links:
(Note the 2 reviews on Amazon praising this material for 3D printing with ABS):
http://www.amazon.com/Polyetherimide-Op ... roduct_top
McMaster sells the stuff too:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#ultem-sheets/=nq38pq
These guys use it too, but it's reinforced with glass for continuous use (scroll down a little on the right to read about their print surface):
http://kuehlingkuehling.de/shop/kuehlin ... inter-kit/
I've been primarily printing PLA, but going to start soon w/ ABS so I'm wondering if this polyetherimide stuff will make my 3D printing life easier? Any thoughts?
that's the first time ive heard of this stuff, might have to try it out.
My rostock build log http://forum.seemecnc.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=1228
Re: Polyetherimide Bed for Easy ABS Release
It is also Wayne Static approved.geneb wrote:Save your money and use Aquanet extreme hold hairspray.
g.
Re: Polyetherimide Bed for Easy ABS Release
I've been using Finesse on another printer with good results (on Boro glass). Couldn't find Aquanet.geneb wrote:Save your money and use Aquanet extreme hold hairspray.
g.
-
cope413
- Printmaster!
- Posts: 446
- Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:52 pm
- Location: Orange County, CA
- Contact:
Re: Polyetherimide Bed for Easy ABS Release
I don't know why people don't use more PET tape. I rarely ever need juice - only on prints with small footprints - and my prints pop right off when cooled.
It's cheap, easy to apply, and it works
It's cheap, easy to apply, and it works
Fellow Philosophy majors unite!
"The proverbial achilles heel of property monistic epiphenomenalism is the apparent impossibility of ex-nihilo materialization of non-structural and qualitatively new causal powers."
"The proverbial achilles heel of property monistic epiphenomenalism is the apparent impossibility of ex-nihilo materialization of non-structural and qualitatively new causal powers."
Re: Polyetherimide Bed for Easy ABS Release
Hairspray for the majority of my needs (cheapest largest can from walmart, just make sure the spray you choose has "Vinyl Necdecanoate Copolymer" in it).
And for everything else that is particularly difficult usually to print with I have found that UHU glue stick is a magic single choice solution.
[img]http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.46637772 ... 5&c=7&rs=1[/img]
Your biggest problem will be removing the part from the glass, not curl anymore. Here is the process I use with Nylon 618 &645, Polycarbonate, High Impact Crystal ABS and even often with plain old ABS.
Clean your glass with a razor blade, then wipe it clean with alcohol.
For all of the materials I just listed EXCEPT plain old ABS, pre-heat your bed to 40c, then with firm but quick movements spread the glue from the UHU stick onto the area that you will be utilizing for your print. Allow this to dry. It should look fairly shiny, not milky, and very even and smooth. Alot like the clear coat on a car. If it is milky you have put too much glue on or not allowed it to dry completely.
1st layer adhesion is critical as it always is, but you will find it far easier to tune this first layer and have it stick by adjusting your bed height adjustment modifier in your slicer of choice. If you print with a 5-10mm skirt or raft I can almost garrentee you'll get zero curl even for very thin large flat objects that span the entire bed.
Yes you print at only 40c for all of those high temp filaments.
To remove your part you have two or three choices. Cause it is going to be very stuck to that glass.
1st choice, good for thicker printed items that have no delicate edges is to keep a meat cleaver by the printer and in a sort of abrupt yet firm and sliding motion "crack" the part free. Generally causes it to fly across the room. Don't swing the thing. at it obviously. Both hands supporting the none ouchie side works nicely. Slide under smoothly but suddenly.
2nd choice, good for very thin items that are very derlicate that you do not wish to introduce warp into. Allow the bed to cool to room temp and release the skirt by sliding the cleaver under the skirts edge all away around. Then reheat to 50-60c, again gently try to slide under the edge of part, it's ok if you make no progress yet. Cool part again to room temp. Generally it will simply fall noff at this point perfectly flat and perfect. If not keep repeating jumping slightly higher (10c each time) and it will come loose.
3rd choice, only good for very thick parts, heat your bed to 120c and slide knife under part and it will come right off.
Often I do not even need to reapply glue for 2 or 3 prints after initial applications. Depends on how much stays stuck to parts when removed.
I find the UHU glue works far far better than the elmers glue stick. Perhaps because the UHU glue stick is not non-toxic and not for kids. So do not eat the glue stick anyone. I hope that I didn't have to say that in present company, but you never know.......Look at my own avatar for example.
He looks like he would love glue stick of any type!
And for everything else that is particularly difficult usually to print with I have found that UHU glue stick is a magic single choice solution.
[img]http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.46637772 ... 5&c=7&rs=1[/img]
Your biggest problem will be removing the part from the glass, not curl anymore. Here is the process I use with Nylon 618 &645, Polycarbonate, High Impact Crystal ABS and even often with plain old ABS.
Clean your glass with a razor blade, then wipe it clean with alcohol.
For all of the materials I just listed EXCEPT plain old ABS, pre-heat your bed to 40c, then with firm but quick movements spread the glue from the UHU stick onto the area that you will be utilizing for your print. Allow this to dry. It should look fairly shiny, not milky, and very even and smooth. Alot like the clear coat on a car. If it is milky you have put too much glue on or not allowed it to dry completely.
1st layer adhesion is critical as it always is, but you will find it far easier to tune this first layer and have it stick by adjusting your bed height adjustment modifier in your slicer of choice. If you print with a 5-10mm skirt or raft I can almost garrentee you'll get zero curl even for very thin large flat objects that span the entire bed.
Yes you print at only 40c for all of those high temp filaments.
To remove your part you have two or three choices. Cause it is going to be very stuck to that glass.
1st choice, good for thicker printed items that have no delicate edges is to keep a meat cleaver by the printer and in a sort of abrupt yet firm and sliding motion "crack" the part free. Generally causes it to fly across the room. Don't swing the thing. at it obviously. Both hands supporting the none ouchie side works nicely. Slide under smoothly but suddenly.
2nd choice, good for very thin items that are very derlicate that you do not wish to introduce warp into. Allow the bed to cool to room temp and release the skirt by sliding the cleaver under the skirts edge all away around. Then reheat to 50-60c, again gently try to slide under the edge of part, it's ok if you make no progress yet. Cool part again to room temp. Generally it will simply fall noff at this point perfectly flat and perfect. If not keep repeating jumping slightly higher (10c each time) and it will come loose.
3rd choice, only good for very thick parts, heat your bed to 120c and slide knife under part and it will come right off.
Often I do not even need to reapply glue for 2 or 3 prints after initial applications. Depends on how much stays stuck to parts when removed.
I find the UHU glue works far far better than the elmers glue stick. Perhaps because the UHU glue stick is not non-toxic and not for kids. So do not eat the glue stick anyone. I hope that I didn't have to say that in present company, but you never know.......Look at my own avatar for example.
He looks like he would love glue stick of any type!
"Now you see why evil will always triumph! Because good is dumb." - Spaceballs
Re: Polyetherimide Bed for Easy ABS Release
I had to take an astronomy class in college. I still can't believe every time they talked about the sun, they had to say do NOT stare at the sun....Flateric wrote:I hope that I didn't have to say that in present company, but you never know.......
At that point in a persons education if you can be talked into looking into the sun, much less coming up with the idea on your own.....well... Some may consider me a bad person for my thoughts on that one.
Re: Polyetherimide Bed for Easy ABS Release
Sorry I missed what you said I was too busy eating my paste and gluesticks......LOL.
KIDDING!
LOL, I know what you mean man. The examples of how intelligent and advanced we are can be seen everywhere.
Unfortunately the signs of how little progress has been made and how dumb we are can also be seen everywhere.
At this point I would also like to draw attention to my oh so very true sig....
vvvvvvvvvv
KIDDING!
LOL, I know what you mean man. The examples of how intelligent and advanced we are can be seen everywhere.
Unfortunately the signs of how little progress has been made and how dumb we are can also be seen everywhere.
At this point I would also like to draw attention to my oh so very true sig....
vvvvvvvvvv
"Now you see why evil will always triumph! Because good is dumb." - Spaceballs
Re: Polyetherimide Bed for Easy ABS Release
Thanks for the UHU lesson Flateric, I've never felt the need for more than hairspray (sometimes a double coat and re calibrating the print bed is needed), but it's always good to have options.
Q: Are people using some kind of enclosure when printing ABS on the Max? I print ABS on a Replicator 1 regularly, and found it essential to enclose the printer to get away from warping and poor layer adhesion. Now, the room the printer is in is AC'd, so it is quite chilly.
I was a weird kid.
Q: Are people using some kind of enclosure when printing ABS on the Max? I print ABS on a Replicator 1 regularly, and found it essential to enclose the printer to get away from warping and poor layer adhesion. Now, the room the printer is in is AC'd, so it is quite chilly.
I used to stare at the sun when I was about four or five. I have a couple spots burned in my vision.lordbinky wrote:I had to take an astronomy class in college. I still can't believe every time they talked about the sun, they had to say do NOT stare at the sun....Flateric wrote:I hope that I didn't have to say that in present company, but you never know.......
At that point in a persons education if you can be talked into looking into the sun, much less coming up with the idea on your own.....well... Some may consider me a bad person for my thoughts on that one.
I was a weird kid.
Re: Polyetherimide Bed for Easy ABS Release
I picked up some of this (super hold though) just at random and it works fairly well. For some purposes I have to lay down a thick coat, but it works. Shortly before the end of the print I manually reduce the bed temp by 10C. By the time it's lost 5C or so the print will "snap" right off.geneb wrote:Save your money and use Aquanet extreme hold hairspray.
g.
Questions? Ask in a thread - PMs are off.
AI Calibration | Dimensional Accuracy Calibration | Hand-Tune your PID | OctoPi + Touchscreen setup | My E3D hot end mount, Z probe, fan ducts, LED ring mount, filament spool holder, etc.
AI Calibration | Dimensional Accuracy Calibration | Hand-Tune your PID | OctoPi + Touchscreen setup | My E3D hot end mount, Z probe, fan ducts, LED ring mount, filament spool holder, etc.
-
inventabuild
- Printmaster!
- Posts: 137
- Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 10:53 pm
Re: Polyetherimide Bed for Easy ABS Release
Found this little write up on the Kühling&Kühling website about using polyetherimide as the printing surface for a variety of plastics without having to prep the surface. If I'm reading this correctly it sounds like PLA, ABS and other printing plastics will stick well to it and then you just flex the sheet to peel the plastic part off. With this in mind I'm going to take the plunge and buy some to test it out (just hope it lasts a long time because the material is kind of pricey).
From: http://kuehlingkuehling.de/2013/04/02/d ... ercooling/
New advanced maintenance-free continuous polyetherimide print bed
Recently we chose FR4 as an already amazingly reliable print surface for ABS plastic under raised temperature conditions like 70°C used within our build chamber, but there’s one material that still beats the pants off FR4. It’s a really hard to source, aerospace grade glass fabric polyetherimide (PEI) composite and incredibly expensive in smaller volumes, but yet worth every cent you pay for it. We finally found a good supplier and as we will order larger volumes, the individual price tag will be entirely manageable.
Not only does ABS stick to this print surface like glue, without leaving any residue after removing the printed parts by gently flexing the sheet, but so do PLA, PVA, HIPS and possibly even more. This material serves as a true universal, continuous use print surface, that doesn’t require any preparational work except of occassionally removing finger prints with some IPA between two prints. Reliability and usability at its best, this material really makes a difference. Wait for another video to follow shortly illustrating the main advantages during a common printing procedure.
From: http://kuehlingkuehling.de/2013/04/02/d ... ercooling/
New advanced maintenance-free continuous polyetherimide print bed
Recently we chose FR4 as an already amazingly reliable print surface for ABS plastic under raised temperature conditions like 70°C used within our build chamber, but there’s one material that still beats the pants off FR4. It’s a really hard to source, aerospace grade glass fabric polyetherimide (PEI) composite and incredibly expensive in smaller volumes, but yet worth every cent you pay for it. We finally found a good supplier and as we will order larger volumes, the individual price tag will be entirely manageable.
Not only does ABS stick to this print surface like glue, without leaving any residue after removing the printed parts by gently flexing the sheet, but so do PLA, PVA, HIPS and possibly even more. This material serves as a true universal, continuous use print surface, that doesn’t require any preparational work except of occassionally removing finger prints with some IPA between two prints. Reliability and usability at its best, this material really makes a difference. Wait for another video to follow shortly illustrating the main advantages during a common printing procedure.
Re: Polyetherimide Bed for Easy ABS Release
Im a big fan of the purple to clear washable Elmer's gluestick, for ABS I get the bed to 100-110, and for Nylon it works wonders at 110, and comes right off after its cool. Another plus is, because its washable, you can take your part and just wash the left over glue off if any sticks....