Which Arms

maxman · Post by **maxman** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:46 am

Just like to know a few opinons on which arms I should upgrade to.

Trick-Laser ?

Xnaron Printable Mag Arms

Or

The new Moulded arm from SEEMECNC

Also please try to take into account cost, hassle factor and performance per buck

Thanks

Post by **Eaglezsoar** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:02 am

maxman wrote:Just like to know a few opinons on which arms I should upgrade to.

Trick-Laser ?

Xnaron Printable Mag Arms

Or

The new Moulded arm from SEEMECNC

Also please try to take into account cost, hassle factor and performance per buck

Thanks

Another factor to consider is which arms make it easier to change hot ends. The magnetic arms win hands down on that one.
The new arms from SeeMeCNC is what I would start with and work on the Xnaron arms while you are printing with the arms
that are inexpensive and now due to no sanding, easy. If you are not concerned with the ease of changing to different Hot Ends
I would start with the SeeMeCNC arms and if the quality is not what you expected, invest in the arms from Trick Laser.

Jimustanguitar · Post by **Jimustanguitar** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:43 am

The new style OEM arms are fine to get started on. Most of the reason that people used to need to upgrade doesn't exist anymore. You used to have to file down the arms to get the right tolerance and rotational friction on the U-Joints, but the new machined design that SeeMe uses now eliminates that variable.

When it is time for an upgrade, I really like the Trick Laser arms. The mag arms are definitely a plus for quick swaps, but there's something about having a tight, rigid connection that just seems like you can crank up the speed a bit more. Plus if you experiment with some of the different ways to ditch the bowden setup and go for direct extrusion, the trick laser arms will hold up to the extra weight and inertia.

Did I mention... Carbon Fiber

Post by **geneb** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:41 am

The new arms make it very easy to change out effector ends.

g.

cope413 · Post by **cope413** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:20 pm

Why and how often are people changing out hotends?

I've always seen that as a "pro" for mag arms, but I've never really understood the reason for it.

Is it if you want to use them for a specific filament and only run that filament through it?

Jams?

I don't know why I would ever want to change my E3D out...

Polygonhell · Post by **Polygonhell** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:12 pm

cope413 wrote:Why and how often are people changing out hotends?

I've always seen that as a "pro" for mag arms, but I've never really understood the reason for it.

Is it if you want to use them for a specific filament and only run that filament through it?

Jams?

I don't know why I would ever want to change my E3D out...

I use an E3d for everything except PLA, where it's a pain in the ass and I use a JHead.

lordbinky · Post by **lordbinky** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:38 pm

I can't speak for the new arms, of the other two options:

If you don't want the hassle, definitely the trick laser arms. They are direct replacements for the arms.

Magnetic arms require a printer outputting useable prints for their creation. Then you have to trust your manufacturing capability which is in part determined by available tools or be able to order the rods at the proper length, either way you need the arms the exact same length. For the bearings you need to either weld/epoxy/glue/adhere them to screws which are then attached to printed effector and carriage mount or you use the designs that you directly adhere the bearing to those components, effort and tools are up to you. You don't need fancy tools if you have time and patience. The extra effort can be very much worth all the effort and hassle, on the other hand anything other than near perfect construction has the potentional to drive you insane. There is the additional bonus that you can keep improving your arms and upgrading them quickly and well as the effector/printhead. Swapping to nylon printed cups is awesome once I gained that print ability.

Post by **Eaglezsoar** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:18 pm

lordbinky wrote:I can't speak for the new arms, of the other two options:

If you don't want the hassle, definitely the trick laser arms. They are direct replacements for the arms.

Magnetic arms require a printer outputting useable prints for their creation. Then you have to trust your manufacturing capability which is in part determined by available tools or be able to order the rods at the proper length, either way you need the arms the exact same length. For the bearings you need to either weld/epoxy/glue/adhere them to screws which are then attached to printed effector and carriage mount or you use the designs that you directly adhere the bearing to those components, effort and tools are up to you. You don't need fancy tools if you have time and patience. The extra effort can be very much worth all the effort and hassle, on the other hand anything other than near perfect construction has the potentional to drive you insane. There is the additional bonus that you can keep improving your arms and upgrading them quickly and well as the effector/printhead. Swapping to nylon printed cups is awesome once I gained that print ability.

Why do you feel nylon is better for the cups? I know that it is stronger than ABS but the ABS cups seem to be completely functional or are they? That's a decision I need to make which
is why I am asking.

Jimustanguitar · Post by **Jimustanguitar** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:26 pm

My guess is for wear and friction.

lordbinky · Post by **lordbinky** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:04 pm

I initially did it for the friction which was noticeably reduced without slop, I would say it was almost like the ABS but with good lubrication. I was motivated further by one of the bearings wearing into a cup and making contact with the magnet giving me a squeek.

I can't say how the nylon actually holds up yet though. The ABS cup's texture was glossy smooth, and the nylon cup's were at their original printed texture. So there are surface area differences, but overall I'd say the Nylon cups were worth redoing the arms (ie making a second pair). I have all the electronics for another printer so making an extra set of arms isn't a waste if I decide to throw together something like a 3DR, which makes a difference on my outlook as well.

lordbinky · Post by **lordbinky** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:06 pm

If you have a bearing and the material already I'd say print a cup to feel the difference. Best if the bearing is already on something you can hold like the screwhead.

Post by **geneb** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:33 pm

The poll is missing an important part of the question - WHAT TASK? Printing or changing out hot ends, or both?

g.

lordbinky · Post by **lordbinky** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:50 pm

This can only be answered by pitting the arms against each other in a high speed print battle to the death on a Delta printer named Thunderdome.

Jimustanguitar · Post by **Jimustanguitar** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:44 pm

lordbinky wrote:This can only be answered by pitting the arms against each other in a high speed print battle to the death on a Delta printer named Thunderdome.

There can be only one.

cope413 · Post by **cope413** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:30 pm

What if you put 2 TL arms, 2 stock arms, and 2 mag arms on the same effector?

lordbinky · Post by **lordbinky** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:44 pm

cope413 wrote:What if you put 2 TL arms, 2 stock arms, and 2 mag arms on the same effector?

The last guy who tried never returned.....

Flateric · Post by **Flateric** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:44 am

Polygonhell wrote:
cope413 wrote:Why and how often are people changing out hotends?

I've always seen that as a "pro" for mag arms, but I've never really understood the reason for it.

Is it if you want to use them for a specific filament and only run that filament through it?

Jams?

I don't know why I would ever want to change my E3D out...
I use an E3d for everything except PLA, where it's a pain in the ass and I use a JHead.

^^Agreed, the newest revision of the E3D is the best yet for PLA, however compared to a genuine J-head from the original source is miles better still only with PLA however.

Glacian22 · Post by **Glacian22** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:05 am

cope413 wrote:What if you put 2 TL arms, 2 stock arms, and 2 mag arms on the same effector?

Don't cross the streams!

Jimustanguitar · Post by **Jimustanguitar** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:16 am

cope413 wrote:What if you put 2 TL arms, 2 stock arms, and 2 mag arms on the same effector?

If the stock arms weren't sanded sloppily, you used the zero lash TL straps, and you had perfectly printed magnet cups... You probably wouldn't be able to tell a difference.

If you were going to use all 3 at the same time, chances are that you'd end up with different length arms by a mm or so and wouldn't have a clean comparison.

Post by **geneb** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:49 pm

It certainly be entertaining to watch them calibrate that with three different arm sets on there.

For bonus rage, pair different types of arms.

(#1 SeeMe New & old #2 Seeme New & Tricklaser, #3 tricklaser & magnetic) *laughs*

g.

cope413 · Post by **cope413** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:50 pm

Flateric wrote:
^^Agreed, the newest revision of the E3D is the best yet for PLA, however compared to a genuine J-head from the original source is miles better still only with PLA however.

Good thing I hate printing with PLA. After a few weeks with Trimmer Line I don't think I'll ever print with PLA again.

lordbinky · Post by **lordbinky** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:57 pm

cope413 wrote: Good thing I hate printing with PLA. After a few weeks with Trimmer Line I don't think I'll ever print with PLA again.

Nylon: It does that to everyone when it gets cold!
PLA: Not me!

Shrinkage, it makes a difference.

cope413 · Post by **cope413** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:46 pm

Nylon has a bad rep for shrinkage and IME, it isn't deserved. It's not even close to as bad as ABS. A quick adjustment of settings and I've never had an issue printing the gears that I sell to our customers. And the gear needs to turn the drive wheel on one of these... http://alteredusa.com/

20mph, up to 260lb rider - up hills, down hills, hard acceleration, hard braking. Nylon does it all with ease.

PLA dreams of being able to do that.

lordbinky · Post by **lordbinky** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:10 pm

I think nylon for me has had less shrinkage in size, but more shrinkage force*. *shrug* Nylon does have some really desirable properties though.

*in comparison to ABS

626Pilot · Post by **626Pilot** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:11 pm

Polygonhell wrote: I use an E3d for everything except PLA, where it's a pain in the ass and I use a JHead.

I've had good luck printing PLA with my E3D hot end, even with a 0.25mm nozzle. What cooling solution are you using?

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