Print PLA on paper...

[mhackney]

That's a good idea neuracenic. So many ideas, so little time!

[enggmaug]

I tried repositionable adhesive in spray. Because of the plate being hot, it's not as repositionnable as I wish.

However, it's not the one from post-it that I tried, but from 3M.

I will now try with post it glue in a stick form, as I happen to have some.... it may work, and I'll let you know.

So, printing on paper works beautifully for me... except that PLA sticks too well to paper, and I cannot reuse the paper afterwards.

[mhackney]

That might have to do with your paper or temperature. I'm using 20# copier paper at 60°C and the parts come off nicely. I've been able to print 16 parts on the same piece of paper!

[mhackney]

So I did a little research to find a water soluble spray adhesive. I think I found something that is worth trying so I ordered a can. Worth a test and I can use it for other projects it its a flop.

Now that I'm printing a platter full of parts, I am getting a few lifts even with the Garnier extreme control. I cleaned my glass thoroughly, dried and reapplied and still have little issues here and there. There is no rhyme or reason for where it lifts and it's always one of the "petals' on these parts, everything else adheres well. Those are the buggers that caused me to go down the print on paper path to begin with. I've printed 30 of these parts on paper with no lift and 16 on glass with Garnier with about 4 lifts (on a single petal).

I'm trying an Elmers glue stick now to help hold down the paper. The only problem with it, is it was a little tough to get a thin even coat without clumps. These clumps tell-tale through the paper. If I can find the right spray adhesive, it should work much better. I don't really need a lot of adhesion, just enough to keep the paper on the glass. The other option is to print on poster board, that worked great too, was reusable and can cover a larger area because of its stiffness. But it is more expensive than paper so I'll continue my experimentation.

[cambo3d]

If you've read my build thread, I've been struggling with PLA sticking TOO well to blue tape! I recently had to buy a new roll and even though it is the same 3M brand, it seems to stick much more tenaciously to the print. I've tried every trick I know and found on the web. I end up breaking and warping parts trying to remove them. Then I came across a trick that is so simple and effective. Basically, don't print on tape, print on regular copy paper! Simply tape it down by the edges, stretched tightly. I heat my bed to 60°C for PLA and then print. The part sticks perfectly - even large parts don't "corner warp". Then, when the print is done, it comes off the bed easily with paper attached. A quick trip to the sink to soak the paper int cool water and it all comes right off! Very cool and it leaves a really nice surface finish on the part. I know it is hard to see but this is the print-down surface on a bugger of a part to remove from blue tape with out destroying:

The paper came right off without distorting the part.

BTW, this is Bling Bling Gold PLA from Faberdashery in the UK. Spectacular material! it has a little gold sparkle to it and is absolutely beautiful.

cheers,
Michael

You should try printing on vinyl sign material....stuff the sign shops use to make car graphics and signs with... i've heard it works great too.

[Eaglezsoar]

So I did a little research to find a water soluble spray adhesive. I think I found something that is worth trying so I ordered a can. Worth a test and I can use it for other projects it its a flop.

Now that I'm printing a platter full of parts, I am getting a few lifts even with the Garnier extreme control. I cleaned my glass thoroughly, dried and reapplied and still have little issues here and there. There is no rhyme or reason for where it lifts and it's always one of the "petals' on these parts, everything else adheres well. Those are the buggers that caused me to go down the print on paper path to begin with. I've printed 30 of these parts on paper with no lift and 16 on glass with Garnier with about 4 lifts (on a single petal).

I'm trying an Elmers glue stick now to help hold down the paper. The only problem with it, is it was a little tough to get a thin even coat without clumps. These clumps tell-tale through the paper. If I can find the right spray adhesive, it should work much better. I don't really need a lot of adhesion, just enough to keep the paper on the glass. The other option is to print on poster board, that worked great too, was reusable and can cover a larger area because of its stiffness. But it is more expensive than paper so I'll continue my experimentation.

That spray adhesive got my attention, please let us know how that works for you. Not cheap but worth it if it works.

[Batteau62]

So I did a little research to find a water soluble spray adhesive. I think I found something that is worth trying so I ordered a can. Worth a test and I can use it for other projects it its a flop.

Now that I'm printing a platter full of parts, I am getting a few lifts even with the Garnier extreme control. I cleaned my glass thoroughly, dried and reapplied and still have little issues here and there. There is no rhyme or reason for where it lifts and it's always one of the "petals' on these parts, everything else adheres well. Those are the buggers that caused me to go down the print on paper path to begin with. I've printed 30 of these parts on paper with no lift and 16 on glass with Garnier with about 4 lifts (on a single petal).

I'm trying an Elmers glue stick now to help hold down the paper. The only problem with it, is it was a little tough to get a thin even coat without clumps. These clumps tell-tale through the paper. If I can find the right spray adhesive, it should work much better. I don't really need a lot of adhesion, just enough to keep the paper on the glass. The other option is to print on poster board, that worked great too, was reusable and can cover a larger area because of its stiffness. But it is more expensive than paper so I'll continue my experimentation.

Michael-I was going to try glue stick one time and had the same issue(clumping). Here's my fix idea, use a brayer((possibly warmed?)to roll the glue stick out. I did not try this becuase I was under a deadline. Might be worth a shot?

[Eaglezsoar]

I thought a brayer was a donkey?

[Batteau62]

I thought a brayer was a donkey?

+1

[geneb]

For PLA I use a little 2oz spray bottle filled with a 10:1 mix of water to Elmer's White Glue. I run the bed at 55C and I get great adhesion every time.

g.

[mhackney]

Batteau62, when I saw your post, I pulled out my brayer and gave it a shot. Mine might be too soft - it didn't really help smooth out the lumps. My spray adhesive will arrive on Tuesday so I'll wait to try that and then report back.

Gene and all, on many parts, I never have problems getting the part to stick. In fact, on blue tape at room temp it sticks too well an is a pain to remove the part and the tape shreds from the part. This particular part with the petal leaf shape is a tough one since there is not a lot of surface area - as you'll see I am printing without a solid surface layer so the infill pattern shows. This infill does not really help hold the part down. On the Garnier hair spray, PLA seems to hold very well for normal parts or this part with a solid surface layer. But these parts with the minimal surface area and petals are failing to stick 100% reliably on hair spray but are sticking 100% on copy paper. I am going to try the elmers white glue spray, easy enough to try! I presume you need to reapply for each print?

cheers,
Michael

[Batteau62]

Yeah, wasn't too sure about durometer of the roller, or what it should be made out of? Here's another of my crazy thoughts on applying bed stick'em-

http://www.dickblick.com/products/daige ... ve-system/

This one I thought maybe the roller alone might do the job to even the glue stick. It's a knurled surface with rubber wheels on the ends to control thickness. So much the better if you can find a glue to put through it that will work Again, I have one, just haven't tried it yet. So many crocodiles! Need to drain the swamp!

edit: this one too- http://www.uvps.com/product.asp?code=DRAWDOWN+E

[mhackney]

That's a cool little roller. Would be a lot less messy to use than spray.

[Batteau62]

Exactly! I will give it a try tomorrow and report back. I think the draw down bar would be nice too, but they are a tad expensive! could probably make one if you have some stainless wire and rod laying around. Chuck the rod in the lathe and do a controlled wrap. I think they would work well because you could lay them on the bed and let them heat up. So some melting would occur on the coating pull.

[Batteau62]

Exactly! I will give it a try tomorrow and report back. I think the draw down bar would be nice too, but they are a tad expensive! could probably make one if you have some stainless wire and rod laying around. Chuck the rod in the lathe and do a controlled wrap. I think they would work well because you could lay them on the bed and let them heat up. So some melting would occur on the coating pull.

Ok, I tried the little Daige roller. I applied gluestick to heated bed. (If you do it on a cold surface, the glue sticks to the roller and not the glass.) I think it works pretty well for "milling" the surface flat. It does leave a slight diamond pattern in the glue. One drawback is its size. It's only 2 1/2" wide. So, you only get a surface that wide, otherwise the wheels make marks. It would be very convenient to reapply rather than spray, much cleaner. Although you do have to wipe the roller. It could work really well if you found a liquid glue to put in the resevoir, and use it as intended.

[bvandiepenbos]

have you tried Aquanet Super Hold hairspray on glass at 55c ?
This works every time for me, PLA and ABS

[mhackney]

Not Aquanet but the other highly recommended Garnier. I will pick it up and try it, but these are tricky little buggers due to the sharp corners and no solid first layer. They do stick 100% on paper as described but so far everything else I've tried has occasional failures.

Thanks,
Michael

[Eaglezsoar]

For the reservoir White Elmers to 10 parts water may work.

[mhackney]

Ok, the spray adhesive came in:

[img]http://mhackney.zenfolio.com/img/s5/v12 ... 8142-3.jpg[/img]

and I've had a chance to test it!

This is definitely the way to go for printing PLA and getting an awesome non-glossy surface finish. A very light spray on one side of the paper, let it dry for about 1 minute (30 seconds but just to be sure...) and then stick to your pre-warmed glass (60°C for me). No extra tape needed. You can see above I'm printing on typing paper with nothing else holding it down. The paper will not lift with printing forces. The parts usually pop off like I see with taped paper. But, sometimes they do stick a little too well - this seems to be function of Z height and "hot bed equilibrium" - it takes a while for everything to heat up and stabilize. But, even if parts do stick, you just peel the paper off, drop the whole shebang in cool water and the parts come off with no warping or residue! The paper peels cleanly off the glass and does not leave any residue on the glass at all - that's why I like this type of adhesive.

Now for the down side, read this:

[img]http://mhackney.zenfolio.com/img/s8/v79 ... 2409-3.jpg[/img]

This stuff is very flammable and should not get anywhere close to your printer - especially the hot end or heated bed. Do not spray on the heated glass, do not even spray close to the printer. I got an old cardboard box - 12" x 12" - and cut down the sides so it is about 4" deep. I put the paper in there and spray. This can has a specially designed nozzle that delivers a lot LESS adhesive and is very easy to prevent over spray. So, it is easy to apply. Let it dry for a minute then pick up and apply to heated glass. It goes down nice and flat and stays there, even for tall skinny prints the parts do not wobble like I've observed with paper taped around the edges.

I've printed about 30 parts using this adhesive yesterday and today and have had ZERO failures - no lifted corners, no warps, no bad first layers. It really doesn't get any better than that!

I am going to cross post this in my build thread for posterity.

Cheers,
Michael

[mhackney]

I just posted this Rostock Max Tool Caddy in the What are you printing forum and posted it on Thingiverse.

[img]http://mhackney.zenfolio.com/img/s9/v96 ... 5832-3.jpg[/img]

This is a big part with lots of surface area on the bottom. Flatness is imperative so they stay put! I printed these on paper glued down with the spray adhesive to show you how it works. Here's the first layer going down:

http://mhackney.zenfolio.com/img/s11/v2 ... 2647-3.jpg

Note that there is no tape holding the paper down.

I tried to get a perspective to show that the bottom is dead flat:

[img]http://mhackney.zenfolio.com/img/s9/v89 ... 5024-3.jpg[/img]

Several seconds later, I pealed it off the paper:

[img]http://mhackney.zenfolio.com/img/s5/v11 ... 4056-3.jpg[/img]

You can see that I was able to remove it without tearing the paper, it is ready to print again. In fact, both of these caddies were printed on the same sheet. When it's time, the paper just peels right off the glass.

[Eaglezsoar]

I don't remember if you tried this method for ABS. Just wondering.

[mhackney]

No, not yet. I will at some point and post results.

[Eaglezsoar]

No, not yet. I will at some point and post results.

Just to let you know that when your signature link is clicked on it gives the error : The page you were looking for appears to have been moved, deleted or does not exist.
I think it is looking for a fabricators blog. Just in case you didn't know.

[mhackney]

Thank you Eagle - fixed!

cheers,
Michael

[enggmaug]

I did try the paper trick for ABS.

It worked for a small object, but lager prints will eventually not stick very well and warp.

I tried to put abs juice on paper for ABS print, it works well, but as you may guess, it's a bit of a pain in the butt to entirely remove the remaining paper on the print.

I still have to try glue, and other hairsprays on paper for ABS.

When it works, the result is just as great as with PLA.