Considering a rostock max?

radish · Post by **radish** » Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:07 am

I've been doing alot of research on delta printers and trying to narrow it down.
One of them is the Max, but then I saw this video.
I'm not trying to bash this printer, but I don't want to spend 1K and have the same problems as this guy...

Have these problems been addressed?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtDKx2kvAj4

Post by **Eaglezsoar** » Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:47 am

radish wrote:I've been doing alot of research on delta printers and trying to narrow it down.
One of them is the Max, but then I saw this video.
I'm not trying to bash this printer, but I don't want to spend 1K and have the same problems as this guy...

Have these problems been addressed?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtDKx2kvAj4

We have seen that video before and here are my comments.
The sanding he talks about has been virtually eliminated by SeemeCNC creating new arms that do NOT require the sanding anymore.
The extruder has been replaced by the new EZstruder that is direct drive.
The nozzles on the HotEnd have been replaced by a new version.
The LCD now ships with the appropriate connector for the Rambo card.
He also mentions the bearing covers wearing out, if his wore out then he had to have them torqued way too tight.
The screw he mentions comes off at angle because he threaded it in crooked, no one else complains of this as an issue.
You found one video from a disgruntled user and are using that as the basis of printer quality? I can find dozens and dozens of videos from happy Rostock Max users.
Some people would find something to bitch about if they were driving a Rolls Royce.
In all seriousness most if not all of the issues he complains about have been fixed or were not existent in the first place. The Rostock Max is the ONLY kit that offers the
build area that it does and you will not find a kit anywhere near the print volume for $1000.
Rather than contact SeemeCNC about his problems to get resolution this dude decides to cry and whine on YouTube. I am a happy and proud owner of the Rostock Max
and know that there are a thousand more like me.
If you have the skills to build a printer of this magnitude you would be making a serious mistake by not purchasing it.
If you do not have the skills (you know if you do or not), then buy one of the puny cartesian printers. SeemeCNC also offers a prebuilt and calibrated Orion printer that
has a smaller build area than the Rostock Max if you want to go that route.
Download the assembly manual for the Rostock Max and take a look at it - http://www.geneb.org/rostock-max/Rostoc ... -Guide.pdf

To base your decision from one user on YouTube is just plain nuts, search on YouTube for the Rostock Max and you will find many happy users. What is the difference you
may ask yourself, the difference is skill level. The dude who posted that video would have a hard time pounding a nail into a piece of wood without bending it.
In case you are wondering, I do NOT work with or for SeeMeCNC. I am just a happy user that knows there is no finer printer at the price point the Rostock Max sells at.

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:57 am

Yes and there is history there. This individual really seemed like he was on a mission to destruction. He refused to solicit any help - even when a few of us approached him - and he did NOTHING to contact SeeMeCNC to rectify any actual issues and solve any problems. It's almost unimaginable that someone would spend $1000 and not at least try to get some help.

At that time, many of us were very successful with building our machines and participate and share information here. You won't find a 3D printing forum as helpful and timely as this one. Also, the manual that Gene wrote was pretty good back then, it is a wealth of information today.

In the last year, SeeMeCNC has invested a lot in their manufacturing capabilities and tweaking the design of the printer. Today, the Max comes with the new (ish) EZStruder (a very nice direct drive extruder in my opinion), tweaks to the hot end, inclusion of the Onyx heated bed, LCD Controller and a brand new delta arms that fit precisely.

All in all, I had no reservations recommending the Rostock MAX a year ago. Today, I know that it is the best bang for the large format, DIY Delta printer buck!

Regards,
Michael

Jimustanguitar · Post by **Jimustanguitar** » Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:11 am

That guy also really excelled at assembling things poorly. Looking at the video, it's amazing that he's owned tools this long without burning his house down.

I wouldn't place any weight on that poor review at all. I'd assume he makes complaints and videos about everything he touches.

Post by **Eaglezsoar** » Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:22 am

Jimustanguitar wrote:That guy also really excelled at assembling things poorly. Looking at the video, it's amazing that he's owned tools this long without burning his house down.

I wouldn't place any weight on that poor review at all. I'd assume he makes complaints and videos about everything he touches.

He's made three videos, two of them about the Rostock Max and one about a jumping baby. I think the jumping baby was him 3 years ago.

DavidF · Post by **DavidF** » Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:40 am

I purchased my rostock last year in September. I searched and researched and saw that there were many complaints with the early rostock printers, I also saw where the seemecnc guys worked to correct the early problems and took care of thier customers like how an old school mom and pop business would take care of thier children. I pushed the button in september last year and kept my fingers crossed. This was my first 3d printer so I was having a bit of a learning curve when I first started out, and the only problems I have had were figuring out the computer slicing programs. My machine is still all stock including the head. I did purchase the e3d hot end at the same time I bought the printer with the idea I would need to do that to make it work properly, but I have had no need to install it. I did clogg the nozzle a couple of times when first starting out but this was because I had the nozzle jammed into the print bed with no place for the extrusion to go. For the first 3 months I ran the macine with just a rough calibration (adjusted limit switch screws only) and it worked just fine. I have been doing larger prints (up to 10" long) now that made me sit down and actually spend the time doing a proper calibration (took about 2 hours). I think I was better off not calibrating properly and printing small parts at first (4" diameter at the base) because it helped me understand the machine and let me enjoy it from the first print. I guess what im saying is dont get too caught up on the calibration thing too much at first,printing a raft or the first layer at .3mm hides alot of sins, enjoy the machine, then when you know and understand it start fine tuning the calibration. Take your time during the assembly I spent about 30 hours putting mine together, but I havent had to tear it down and reassemble to correct anything

After everything I have learned with this printer I am considering buying another...Two rostock max's would look so cool running side by side, and there isnt another printer out there for the money that can touch what the max is capable of.

The guy in the video needs a slap in the face, obviously he has no understanding of mechanical things and no patience because his mommy babbied him too much. I could say alot of other things about him, but I prefer showing them thier errors in person

But I do thank him for pposting the video, its nice to be reminded of the types of people in the world that I dont have to deal with....

Nylocke · Post by **Nylocke** » Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:06 pm

This.... guy... just make me sad... Yeah, you got an early version of the kit, the Ultimaker was probably kinda bad in the beginning, the Cupcake was bad in the beginning, there isn't a person out there that started with a really good product, its always improved over time. This guy complained about EVERYTHING. EVEN THE TAPE THATS PUT ON THE LASERCUT PARTS THAT IS PUT THERE TO PROTECT THEM DURING SHIPPING! I bet he would complain if some acrylic arrived with the protective paper over it to keep it from getting scratched... and then he would shatter it by over torquing it and complain that it shattered.... I digress, but I had to deal with the old arms, and I had to deal with an H1 with the steve's extruder, they aren't THAT bad. Sure, the Steves had loads of issues, and the arms were a bit of a pain, but they work well enough to create a replacement if they really bothered you THAT much. Done with my ranting, barely remember what I was going to say... its been a few hours since I started typing this

radish · Post by **radish** » Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:57 pm

Thanks for all your responses. It makes me feel better that fellow owners respond positively. I had a feeling there may have been some early teething issues, but just wanted to make sure. You know measure 3x and cut once.

Just FYI, there have been a bunch of delta printers coming out lately...with largish build areas. (I'm interested in the max because I want the large print area)
Including this kickstarter kossel pro designed by the guy who designed the orig. rostock. Yes now it's more expensive, but does look like a nice design.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tt ... r?ref=live

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bl ... ref=search

and this very basic simple setup
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sh ... 3d-printer

I'm a mfg engr so I love putting stuff together. I doubt i will have much trouble, but I'm glad there is a good support forum here.

As an aside, do you guys know when the dual extruder kit is coming out?
thanks.

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:07 pm

radish,

There will always be a "new shinier' printer coming out. But, consider that any new product is not going to have an installed base of experienced users and will likely have some issues that need resolving. When the Rostock Max first came out, there wasn't even good support in the firmware for delta printers. Now there is.

As for dual extruders, many of us have retrofit with dual extruders. Some of us are expecting the 4 extruder Kraken hot end which is shipping this week. I don't know what SeeMeCNC's plans are, email them and maybe they'll have something to share.

You can get a second extruder/hotend setup from SeeMeCNC and TrickLaser offers a dual extruder adapter. The Rambo can handle the second extruder so the electronics and software are already there. This is the route i went last year for a simple dual extruder setup.

regards,
Michael

jmpreuss · Post by **jmpreuss** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:50 am

I myself find the openbeam kickstarter intriguing but it is good to remember a few important points.

The Rostock max is a real product that can be purchased today, the other ones are merely promises.

Take the openbeam one. First they have had major design revisions from what they originally posted as almost ready to go. They have blown through all their deadlines and still haven't delivered anything yet.

There is a lot of vaperware in the 3D print world, I would stick with what currently exists.

Jimustanguitar · Post by **Jimustanguitar** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:08 pm

I was going to ask about exactly that... You said that you like the delta's and that the Rostock was one of them. I wondered what other model you could actually buy. I believe that SeeMeCNC is still the world's only shipping Delta printer.

Post by **Eaglezsoar** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:38 pm

Jimustanguitar wrote:I was going to ask about exactly that... You said that you like the delta's and that the Rostock was one of them. I wondered what other model you could actually buy. I believe that SeeMeCNC is still the world's only shipping Delta printer.

The ones he listed from Kickstarter are probably shipping by now but you are correct in that they most likely are having a hard time fulfilling the orders. I did see one whose name I am not going to mention that is supposedly taking orders for shipping this
1st quarter. There is no LCD, no Heatbed and about the size of the Orion and only sells for $1,999.

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:48 pm

Pictures are worth 1000 words:

[img]http://mhackney.zenfolio.com/img/s1/v22 ... 0534-3.jpg[/img]

[img]http://mhackney.zenfolio.com/img/s2/v50 ... 5144-3.jpg[/img]

[img]http://mhackney.zenfolio.com/img/s11/v3 ... 7988-3.jpg[/img]

If you can find another delta that can do that ^^^^ and much more, then by all means get it!

(250mm / 9.8" tall and 178mm / 7" at its girth. .25mm layers printed at 40mm/s in natural PLA. Two perimeters and that's it.)

cheers,
Michael

DavidF · Post by **DavidF** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:00 pm

^^^^ show off LOL

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:04 pm

Maybe a bit, but it is quite impressive. I can't tell you how many friends I've shown this to who have asked for their own!

Jimustanguitar · Post by **Jimustanguitar** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:38 pm

Eaglezsoar wrote:
Jimustanguitar wrote:I was going to ask about exactly that... You said that you like the delta's and that the Rostock was one of them. I wondered what other model you could actually buy. I believe that SeeMeCNC is still the world's only shipping Delta printer.
The ones he listed from Kickstarter are probably shipping by now but you are correct in that they most likely are having a hard time fulfilling the orders. I did see one whose name I am not going to mention that is supposedly taking orders for shipping this
1st quarter. There is no LCD, no Heatbed and about the size of the Orion and only sells for $1,999.

I heard that the M word ordered a few Orions recently...

cope413 · Post by **cope413** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:43 pm

The Open Beam guys are great, but that printer isn't meant to compete with the Max. It's meant to offer a fully open source and affordable printer to the market. Those guys are great. I just met Terrence and Johan this past weekend, and both are valuable contributors to the industry.

I just purchased some open beams from Amazon and will be tinkering on some unrelated projects, but if you're looking for the best value in a delta printer (or any printer), there's really nothing that competes with the Max if you're willing to put the time in to build it.

Post by **Eaglezsoar** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:09 pm

Jimustanguitar wrote:
Eaglezsoar wrote:
Jimustanguitar wrote:I was going to ask about exactly that... You said that you like the delta's and that the Rostock was one of them. I wondered what other model you could actually buy. I believe that SeeMeCNC is still the world's only shipping Delta printer.
The ones he listed from Kickstarter are probably shipping by now but you are correct in that they most likely are having a hard time fulfilling the orders. I did see one whose name I am not going to mention that is supposedly taking orders for shipping this
1st quarter. There is no LCD, no Heatbed and about the size of the Orion and only sells for $1,999.

I heard that the M word ordered a few Orions recently...

They probably want to back engineer them and come out with a real printer.

TedMilker · Post by **TedMilker** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:16 pm

Eaglezsoar wrote: They probably want to back engineer them and come out with a real printer.

They need some good prints to show off next to their new line of printers.

neurascenic · Post by **neurascenic** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:27 pm

MB = Mooching B%tches

Jimustanguitar · Post by **Jimustanguitar** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:59 pm

It must be hard to reverse engineer a completely open source project with open design files

Post by **Eaglezsoar** » Tue Feb 04, 2014 5:32 pm

Jimustanguitar wrote:It must be hard to reverse engineer a completely open source project with open design files

Good point! But there is nothing like having the real thing. Don't you find it little suspicious that THEY would be buying Orions just to use them to print.

radish · Post by **radish** » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:23 am

[quote="mhackney"]Pictures are worth 1000 words:

If you can find another delta that can do that ^^^^ and much more, then by all means get it!

(250mm / 9.8" tall and 178mm / 7" at its girth. .25mm layers printed at 40mm/s in natural PLA. Two perimeters and that's it.)
------------------------------
Wow that's an awesome print. You can't even really see the layers. hope not much tweaking was involved getting a print that good....?

radish · Post by **radish** » Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:01 am

I reread this your comments again and I was just thinking to myself.... if there wasn't any problems with the following, than why would they need to be fixed??

Which means there WAS problems with early units.. Glad they are fixed now. Kinda like how you're never supposed to buy a first year car or motorcycle....

-----------------
The sanding he talks about has been virtually eliminated by SeemeCNC creating new arms that do NOT require the sanding anymore.
The extruder has been replaced by the new EZstruder that is direct drive.
The nozzles on the HotEnd have been replaced by a new version.
The LCD now ships with the appropriate connector for the Rambo card.
He also mentions the bearing covers wearing out, if his wore out then he had to have them torqued way too tight.
The screw he mentions comes off at angle because he threaded it in crooked, no one else complains of this as an issue.
You found one video from a disgruntled user and are using that as the basis of printer quality? I can find dozens and dozens of videos from happy Rostock Max users.
Some people would find something to bitch about if they were driving a Rolls Royce.
In all seriousness most if not all of the issues he complains about have been fixed or were not existent in the first place.

radish · Post by **radish** » Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:10 am

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic ... -jnscMwUwU

interesting reading

Welcome to the SeeMeCNC Community

Considering a rostock max?

Considering a rostock max?

Re: Considering a rostock max?

Re: Considering a rostock max?

Re: Considering a rostock max?

Re: Considering a rostock max?

Re: Considering a rostock max?

Re: Considering a rostock max?

Re: Considering a rostock max?

Re: Considering a rostock max?

Re: Considering a rostock max?

Re: Considering a rostock max?

Re: Considering a rostock max?

Re: Considering a rostock max?

Re: Considering a rostock max?

Re: Considering a rostock max?

Re: Considering a rostock max?

Re: Considering a rostock max?

Re: Considering a rostock max?

Re: Considering a rostock max?

Re: Considering a rostock max?

Re: Considering a rostock max?

Re: Considering a rostock max?

Re: Considering a rostock max?

Re: Considering a rostock max?

Re: Considering a rostock max?