First print, can't get up to temp to start job

[Shizuma]

I'm trying to run the first job on my printer, however it can't get up to temp to start for printing ABS, the bed got up to 90C though has since then slowly fallen to 88.6 and the hot end is stuck between 221.7 and 222.6 and won't get any hotter.

[bubbasnow]

what i do when ever i print new material, is bring the temp to 190 and try to manually extrude 100mm of material. if the stepper skips ill increase the temp by 5 and try again until i find the min temp it will extrude. If you are using the stock hot end, and trying to pass 240deg you will damage your PEEK even with a fan.

[Shizuma]

I thought 190 was too low for ABS? when I looking thru the forums I was seeing people say 230-235C for the hot end and 90C for the bed. It can get the hot end up to 230 on it's own, but with the bed on it can, it seems like the PSU simply doesn't supply enough power, which is really frustrating that they would send the kits out with an inadequate or barely adequate PSU :/

[bubbasnow]

what you can do to see if the PSU isent up to snuff, do not turn on the bed, but raise the hot end first. i am printing some yellow abs right now at about 215c, at 230c it actually starts to turn the yellow to brown. So this test is a good habit to get into when ever you get new filament.

a few things to check:

Ensure that your thermister is pushed in all the way, it might be displaying 220 ish because it has an air gap between the glass and metal in the hole.
Ensure that your leads to your resistors aren't coming into contact with the alum housing at those higher temps causing a short.
if you have a thermocouple type probe on your multi meter it would be a good idea to get a second temp to verify your readings

[Shizuma]

Unfortunately my multi meter is old and doesn't have the ability to read a thermocouple probe, I did try lowering the hot end temp to 220C and the bed to 85C and it was able to get up to those temps and start printing, so far it seems to be working fine, I will check the thermister after it finishes the print though.

Would it help to wrap a few layers of kapton tape around the hot end to reduce heat loss so it would take less power to maintain those temps?

[bubbasnow]

or you can find other insulating wraps, these help keep heat in, and when you get a layer fan keep cold air off the hot end

[Shizuma]

I was just thinking kapton tape since it's what I happen to have in the house that's rated to those temps.

I will say those I'm very happy with the results of the first print, came out better than I was expecting from seeing what some other people's first prints looked like

[Eaglezsoar]

That looks fantastic for a first print! Well done!

[Cosmic]

Did you wrap the heating resistors with enough aluminum foil to have a good thermal transfer ?

The cube looks great

[Shizuma]

I think so, it was a snug fit when I installed them, though I do wonder why they didn't make those holes closer to the diameter of the resistors since they are way over sized.

[osr]

I wondered the same thing when I put mine together. I thought maybe they intended to use a larger resistor when they machined them, and then switched. I can't see any reason for doing it on purpose. Does anyone know why the holes on the SeemeCNC hot end are too big?

[geneb]

Covers variance in resistor sizing and choices. Don't worry about it.

g.

[Shizuma]

I've been noticing another odd thing too with the heating that I'm not sure how to get it working correctly, the printer will not heat to the set temp, it always stops 3C below the set temp, for example if I set it to 220C it will heat to 217C then maintain that temp, if I then set it to 225C it will start heating again up to 222C then maintain there, so I always have to manually change the target temp for the print to actually start.

[Eaglezsoar]

I've been noticing another odd thing too with the heating that I'm not sure how to get it working correctly, the printer will not heat to the set temp, it always stops 3C below the set temp, for example if I set it to 220C it will heat to 217C then maintain that temp, if I then set it to 225C it will start heating again up to 222C then maintain there, so I always have to manually change the target temp for the print to actually start.

Have you done a Pid tuning on the hotend?

[Shizuma]

Yup, I did the Pid tuning, twice actually since the first time the peek fan wasn't running so once I got that running I did it again.

[0rionN00b]

I've been noticing another odd thing too with the heating that I'm not sure how to get it working correctly, the printer will not heat to the set temp, it always stops 3C below the set temp, for example if I set it to 220C it will heat to 217C then maintain that temp, if I then set it to 225C it will start heating again up to 222C then maintain there, so I always have to manually change the target temp for the print to actually start.

Have you done a Pid tuning on the hotend?

sorry if i missed it, but how do I do the PID tuning?

I went thru the Orion manual PDF, but seem to have missed it....

[Eaglezsoar]

Download the Rostock Max assembly manual, it has the Pid tuning in it and would be the same for the Orion.
You can get it here: http://www.geneb.org/rostock-max/Rostoc ... -Guide.pdf

[Shizuma]

Thought I'd post an update on this, after being down for several weeks waiting for a new RAMBo I got my system back up and running tonight, I had also went ahead and upgrade the cheapo PSU that came with the kit to a much better one, while it's only 100 watts more than the one that came with the kit it has almost double the amps on the 12V rail, 42A vs 22A, I now have no problems at all heating the bed and extruder up. They really should just put a slightly better quality PSU in with the kit, it's just too under powered.

[Eaglezsoar]

Thought I'd post an update on this, after being down for several weeks waiting for a new RAMBo I got my system back up and running tonight, I had also went ahead and upgrade the cheapo PSU that came with the kit to a much better one, while it's only 100 watts more than the one that came with the kit it has almost double the amps on the 12V rail, 42A vs 22A, I now have no problems at all heating the bed and extruder up. They really should just put a slightly better quality PSU in with the kit, it's just too under powered.

Do you have the model number of the power supply you used?

[Shizuma]

Yup, the one I got was the Thermaltake SMART Series SP-550PCBUS 550W ATX, though I will say that one thing I didn't notice when I ordered it that does make things more difficult is all the wires are black, all of them, and I don't mean sleeved in black, the wires themselves are all black, so a pin out diagram of ATX PSU connectors (and a multimeter just for an extra sanity check) is required since you can't just get the yellow wires and black wires for the 12V. I did also have a little bit of a fitment issue because the AC power connector on it slightly interfered with the cutout, but as far as power goes it works awesome, the stock one has such an extreme voltage drop when I turned on the bed that you can clearly hear the PSU's fan slow down which is never a good sign. I did also load the 5V line to make sure the 12V line is regulated properly.

[Eaglezsoar]

Yup, the one I got was the Thermaltake SMART Series SP-550PCBUS 550W ATX, though I will say that one thing I didn't notice when I ordered it that does make things more difficult is all the wires are black, all of them, and I don't mean sleeved in black, the wires themselves are all black, so a pin out diagram of ATX PSU connectors (and a multimeter just for an extra sanity check) is required since you can't just get the yellow wires and black wires for the 12V. I did also have a little bit of a fitment issue because the AC power connector on it slightly interfered with the cutout, but as far as power goes it works awesome, the stock one has such an extreme voltage drop when I turned on the bed that you can clearly hear the PSU's fan slow down which is never a good sign. I did also load the 5V line to make sure the 12V line is regulated properly.

Thanks for the model number. I think the all black wires could be a show stopper but you gave the specs on the supply so we wouldn't have a problem
finding an alternative.

[Shizuma]

Yeah, if I had know ahead of time they were all black wires I would have went with a different one, but it wasn't that hard for me to wire it up even with them all black. Really I would bet even a different 450 watt PSU would be fine, the key is don't buy a no name PSU, no name PSU's are junk, spend the extra $20 or so and get one from a reputable manufacturer, Antec, EVGA, Thermaltake, Corsair, etc, with PSU's you really do get what you pay for, ones with a single 12V rail would also be preferable. I actually went and looked on Newegg and they have a 430 watt EVGA PSU that I would bet would work fine too, despite being 20 watts lower than the one with the kit it has 34A on the 12V rail vs the stock's 22A.