Layers separating during print

[FLuKe]

Hey Guys,

So I still have my other issue going on but I can still print. I am noticing all of my prints there is some separation of the layers (see pic). Can you tell me how to fix this?

Thanks!

[joecnc2006]

Its my understanding that the extruder was not hot enough and the new layers being layed down did not weld properly.

[FLuKe]

Ok turning up the temp, I'll report back!

[bubbasnow]

pla or abs?

could be drafts touching the object also, need more info

[FLuKe]

pla or abs?

could be drafts touching the object also, need more info

ABS running the stock ORIONABS config from seemecnc. I do have a ceiling fan running could that be the problem?

[geneb]

Most certainly! ABS will split like that if you've got any kind of a breeze going. Don't even walk past the printer too fast!

g.

[0rionN00b]

Most certainly! ABS will split like that if you've got any kind of a breeze going. Don't even walk past the printer too fast!

g.

agreed..


I got really frustrated early on, went down to Lowes, and bought 4 sheets of clear plastic - - - 36-32" or so...

taped 3 of them end-to-end, so I could stand them up around the Oriion as a clear wall, and I throw the 4th one on top as a lid.

1. the unit comes to temp far faster.
2. no layer delamination
3. temps stay almost exact the entire print cycle.
4. it's a lot quieter (i'm running one of the Orions in my office non-stop, and listenning to it will make your head go funky after a while)....

[FLuKe]

Thanks for the info!

[bubbasnow]

Most certainly! ABS will split like that if you've got any kind of a breeze going. Don't even walk past the printer too fast!

g.

no beans for dinner either

[progeny]

Dear All-

I think I may be dealing with the same thing:

Here are my specs using Toner Plastics ABS (I have the same type of issues regardless of color (black, "neutral" (in pictures), and silver):

# generated by Slic3r 1.0.0RC3 on Mon Mar 31 16:45:02 2014

avoid_crossing_perimeters = 1
bed_size = 260,260
bed_temperature = 80
bottom_solid_layers = 3
bridge_acceleration = 0
bridge_fan_speed = 100
bridge_flow_ratio = 1
bridge_speed = 60
brim_width = 3
complete_objects = 0
cooling =
default_acceleration = 0
disable_fan_first_layers = 1
duplicate = 1
duplicate_distance = 6
duplicate_grid = 1,1
end_gcode = M104 S0 ; turn off temperature\nG28 X0 ; home X axis\nM84 ; disable motors
external_perimeter_speed = 70%
external_perimeters_first = 0
extra_perimeters = 1
extruder_clearance_height = 20
extruder_clearance_radius = 20
extruder_offset = 0x0
extrusion_axis = E
extrusion_multiplier = 1
extrusion_width = .6
fan_always_on = 0
fan_below_layer_time = 60
filament_diameter = 1.75
fill_angle = 45
fill_density = 0.4
fill_pattern = honeycomb
first_layer_acceleration = 0
first_layer_bed_temperature = 80
first_layer_extrusion_width = .6
first_layer_height = 0.35
first_layer_speed = 30%
first_layer_temperature = 240
g0 = 0
gap_fill_speed = 20
gcode_arcs = 0
gcode_comments = 0
gcode_flavor = reprap
infill_acceleration = 0
infill_every_layers = 1
infill_extruder = 1
infill_extrusion_width = .6
infill_first = 0
infill_only_where_needed = 0
infill_speed = 60
layer_gcode =
layer_height = 0.4
max_fan_speed = 100
min_fan_speed = 35
min_print_speed = 10
min_skirt_length = 0
notes =
nozzle_diameter = 0.5
only_retract_when_crossing_perimeters = 1
ooze_prevention = 0
output_filename_format = [input_filename_base].gcode
overhangs = 1
perimeter_acceleration = 0
perimeter_extruder = 1
perimeter_extrusion_width = .6
perimeter_speed = 30
perimeters = 3
post_process =
print_center = 0,0
raft_layers = 0
randomize_start = 0
resolution = 0
retract_before_travel = 2
retract_layer_change = 1
retract_length = 3
retract_length_toolchange = 10
retract_lift = .1
retract_restart_extra = .1
retract_restart_extra_toolchange = 0
retract_speed = 80
rotate = 0
scale = 1
skirt_distance = 0
skirt_height = 2
skirts = 3
slowdown_below_layer_time = 30
small_perimeter_speed = 30
solid_fill_pattern = rectilinear
solid_infill_below_area = 70
solid_infill_every_layers = 0
solid_infill_extrusion_width = .6
solid_infill_speed = 60
spiral_vase = 0
standby_temperature_delta = -5
start_gcode = G28 ; home all axes\nG1 Z5 F5000 ; lift nozzle
start_perimeters_at_concave_points = 0
start_perimeters_at_non_overhang = 0
support_material = 0
support_material_angle = 0
support_material_enforce_layers = 0
support_material_extruder = 1
support_material_extrusion_width = .6
support_material_interface_extruder = 1
support_material_interface_layers = 3
support_material_interface_spacing = 0
support_material_pattern = honeycomb
support_material_spacing = 2.5
support_material_speed = 60
support_material_threshold = 0
temperature = 230
thin_walls = 1
threads = 3
toolchange_gcode =
top_infill_extrusion_width = .6
top_solid_infill_speed = 50
top_solid_layers = 3
travel_speed = 130
use_firmware_retraction = 0
use_relative_e_distances = 0
vibration_limit = 0
wipe = 0
z_offset = 0


The items printed in PLA Blue convince me the machine, mechanically, is "dialed in", but when it comes to ABS, it seems it is either a temp (as in environmental because I have varied the extrusion temperature from 210 to 240 without change) or material issue.

(By the way, I use Elmers Washable School Glue Stick (disappearing purple) with consistently solid results on a tempered piece of glass over the Onyx. One application of the glue works with multiple prints and when the purple color is gone, I know it is set and ready to go. Before I apply, I do an alcohol wipe-down of the plate.)

Any thoughts?

Regards,

Scott

[Eaglezsoar]

Your temperatures seem fine, about the only thing left is the quality of the filament you are using.
I have used many different ABS filaments and I have never seen separation like you are seeing.
I have used JustABS, Jet ABS, Sainsmart ABS, and several others with good results.

[progeny]

Thanks for your thoughts- I got the TonerPlastics ABS from MicroCenter here in Sharonville, OH (maybe old stock?)

I am now not so convinced I have everything dialed in, and/or I am dealing with what the OP mentioned about environment because I am trying to understand this latest test failure:

(Worsening delayering and spiderwebbing (inside) as the print gets higher out of the 6" draft shield created from the foam cards which shipped with the kit)

I had 1 success with the Neutral- everything worked fine, but it was using a 0.7 mm nozzle, and I was not able to repeat it.

My thoughts at this point (could be one or a combination of):

1. Cold air (we do keep the place around 70) draft is coming over the top of the draft shield
Solution: Enclose the entire build chamber.

2. Material- all colors (neutral, silver, and black) of the same, purchased from the same source, same time exhibit the same issue
Solution: Purchase new material.

3. Settings (although I think I am close enough to get solid layer cohesion)
Solution: Go through settings again and via trial and error until satisfied- could be a long haul

4. Machine calibration
Solution: Perform a complete calibration cycle.

5. Extruder issues (could it be something to do with the consistency with which the filament is fed into the hot end?
Solution: Adjust extruder motor current?

If you've never seen separation like what I am encountering, I am worried indeed!

Regards,

Scott

[progeny]

UPDATED:

To further isolate the issue and address the environmental issue of drafts, I created a container of sorts (out of bubble wrap) around the printing area of the system:

Sealed top and bottom

And this is the result:

(oddly, worse, with even more pronounced banding of separation)

So that eliminates draft or changing temperatures as a factor- so #1 is done.

I did order SainSmart ABS yesterday to arrive tomorrow.

Regards,

Scott

[progeny]

Problem solved with a couple changes:

1. (90% solution)- BAD MATERIAL!! I got a bad batch (3 reels) of TonerPlastics ABS from Microcenter.

2. (10% solution)- The stock reel support arm (with its square edges) assumes the inside ID of filament reels are smooth and concentric in order to payout filament smoothly and consistently. This is not the case. The new filament (which works beautifully by the way, is SainSmart) had a "burr" on the inside of the reel which made me think about the issue more closely. My solution was to modify the current reel holder support as shown below.

Printed "cones" out of ABS; got the rest of the hardware at a local Ace Hardware store for less than $10. I will upload the mod to Thingiverse and others.

Using brass bushings (instead of bearings- unless you are printing reaaaalllyy fast) pushed into a pair of cones, located around a bolt and some washers and nuts, the modification self-centers all types of reels from Taulman T-Glase (small) to SainSmart and others (larger). Using a wingnut makes the changeover fast and easy. When you need to start the thread of a new filament into the extruder, you can tighten (a bit) down on the wingnut to prevent un-winding. Loosen the wingnut when the system is ready to print.

Everything is nice and dialed-in except for my poor construction skills affecting performance and creating a bit of the Delta Arm Blues.

I am hoping that the order I just placed to replace the v1 with v2 arms helps.

[Eaglezsoar]

Nice design to center the spools with the cones. Good Job!