PEI print bed surface experiments

bdjohns1 · Post by **bdjohns1** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:40 pm

mhackney wrote:An update. I had ordered 1/2" and 1" 3M tape. I started with the 1" hoping it would be less work. I don't know if I had a damaged roll or if this is a problem with the wider rolls but one entire side of my roll was stuck to the underlying layer. the end result was that the rubbery adhesive peeled off the backing and formed lumps as I attempted to apply it. It was very frustrating and I went through the entire roll hoping that deeper layers in the roll would be ok. They weren't. The 1/2" did not have this problem and went on rather easily. I left a little gap between strips and that should be fine.

I had some problems with my 1/2 tape wanted to stick along the long edges (presumably from being cut down from wider material) which made it difficult to get perfectly flat - there were a couple of places where I had wrinkles / folds in the tape. On a ~3mm thick piece, it's really no issue though - the thickness of the PEI means it doesn't really telegraph, especially not to the point where there's waviness on the bottom of a piece.

Post by **Eaglezsoar** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:58 pm

bdjohns1 wrote:
mhackney wrote:An update. I had ordered 1/2" and 1" 3M tape. I started with the 1" hoping it would be less work. I don't know if I had a damaged roll or if this is a problem with the wider rolls but one entire side of my roll was stuck to the underlying layer. the end result was that the rubbery adhesive peeled off the backing and formed lumps as I attempted to apply it. It was very frustrating and I went through the entire roll hoping that deeper layers in the roll would be ok. They weren't. The 1/2" did not have this problem and went on rather easily. I left a little gap between strips and that should be fine.
I had some problems with my 1/2 tape wanted to stick along the long edges (presumably from being cut down from wider material) which made it difficult to get perfectly flat - there were a couple of places where I had wrinkles / folds in the tape. On a ~3mm thick piece, it's really no issue though - the thickness of the PEI means it doesn't really telegraph, especially not to the point where there's waviness on the bottom of a piece.

Unless it gets a flex hair under it.

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:22 pm

Unless it gets a flex hair under it.

He he he

The waviness in mine was definitely a problem - I got "nozzle drag" over that area. That's how I found it.

Post by **Eaglezsoar** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:29 pm

So when you put the PEI on what did you do to prevent bubbles?

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:23 pm

The bubbles, if you call them that, were so small to be inconsequential. The real issue was just getting the adhesive down without folds or in the case of that 1st roll, without blobs. Otherwise, it went on pretty smooth and the PEI went on smooth.

grabredemeyer · Post by **grabredemeyer** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:44 pm

What's the general thoughts on this for abs prints? Is it good enough to hold a nice large abs print? Or am I better off sticking to hair spray?

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:01 pm

It's fantastic for ABS too. Google "PEI 3D printing" and you'll read lots of people agree.

0rionN00b · Post by **0rionN00b** » Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:52 pm

mhackney wrote:It's fantastic for ABS too. Google "PEI 3D printing" and you'll read lots of people agree.

agreed.

100%

hairspray accentuates it, BARELY.

But honestly, with PEI, my experience is that you can just set your bed temp to 80c/80c, never change it, and never spray the bed.

This week I've printed 2 spools of PLA and 1/2 a spool of ABS since i've gone to PEI (i'm running an orion ALMOST constantly around the clock non-stop right now). Total prep: about 30 seconds -- I actually scraped junk stuff off the bed once.

For me at least, it's completely changed the game of printing.

I can usually start a new print within 45-60 seconds after finishing the last one.. Just pop off the part, throw the new SD card in, and hit Print. That's it.. If I plan it right, the unit doesn't cool enough to take more than 30 seconds to warm back up to temp.

daftscience · Post by **daftscience** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:50 am

Has anyone seen this bed?

Edit: Don't mind me.

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:27 am

Yes, that's what introduced many of us to PEI.

daftscience · Post by **daftscience** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:00 pm

WOW... that awkward moment when you re-read the first post. My only defense is that I just found this thread, read every post on all 21 pages and apparently forgot it all. Also, I should have searched for "Spiderbot" instead of "Spider"

Don't mind me

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:31 pm

No worries! We've all been there. It is tough keeping all of this ever changing information straight! try PEI though, it rocks.

daftscience · Post by **daftscience** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:01 pm

mhackney wrote:No worries! We've all been there. It is tough keeping all of this ever changing information straight! try PEI though, it rocks.

Will do, I might be able to start printing ABS again.

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:05 pm

Ok, I've now successfully reattached the PEI to my glass plate! The new roll of 3M 468MP tape (3/4" wide) did not have the smashed side like my first roll - so I got a bad roll the first time! After cleaning the glass and PEI with isopropyl alcohol, I applied the tape in close - but not quite touching - strips"

[img]http://mhackney.zenfolio.com/img/s4/v67/p204350-4.jpg[/img]

Then I burnished these down with a plastic scraper. Here's the other side with the tape backing still on:

[img]http://mhackney.zenfolio.com/img/s4/v62/p5084387-3.jpg[/img]

I trimmed the tape around the glass with sharp scissors before pealing off the paper backing. These were both quick jobs:

[img]http://mhackney.zenfolio.com/img/s3/v41 ... 7684-3.jpg[/img]

Then I carefully centered and lowered the PEI onto the tape. I burnished it with the plastic scraper too:

[img]http://mhackney.zenfolio.com/img/s4/v11/p83745474-3.jpg[/img]

I think this is going to work a and stay affixed without problems. I heated the bed up to 110°C just to check the holdfastnes of the tape and it was great, I couldn't peal an edge up.

That should do it. I'm back in business printing on PEI!

Post by **Eaglezsoar** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:39 pm

Great job! I don't see any air bubbles. Beginners luck

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:50 pm

Beginner's luck is the best kind!

bubbasnow · Post by **bubbasnow** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:38 am

Ok so i just did some NINJAFLEX....wow BIG PITA to get this off the PEI when printed on directly.

here is the original file to extend my xbox controller stixhttp://www.thingiverse.com/thing:255738

i modified it for dual material with ninjaflex on the top where my thumbs go.
[img]https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-VGn- ... 233430.jpg[/img]

i had to man handle these and slide a razor blade underneath... maybe print a raft first if you have to put the flex on the bottom

Post by **Eaglezsoar** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:47 am

bubbasnow wrote:Ok so i just did some NINJAFLEX....wow BIG PITA to get this off the PEI when printed on directly.

here is the original file to extend my xbox controller stixhttp://www.thingiverse.com/thing:255738

i modified it for dual material with ninjaflex on the top where my thumbs go.
[img]https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-VGn- ... 233430.jpg[/img]

i had to man handle these and slide a razor blade underneath... maybe print a raft first if you have to put the flex on the bottom

Any problems with Ninjaflex and the EZstruder - bowden system?

0rionN00b · Post by **0rionN00b** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:32 am

bubbasnow wrote:Ok so i just did some NINJAFLEX....wow BIG PITA to get this off the PEI when printed on directly.
................................
i had to man handle these and slide a razor blade underneath... maybe print a raft first if you have to put the flex on the bottom

I'm curious - what was your bed temp during the first layers?

My experience is that if you run it up a bit (80-90), then it'll separate easily AS IT COOLS OFF (down around 65-70C). BUT if you wait till the whole thing cools, you're gonna need a crowbar to remove it....

dpmacri · Post by **dpmacri** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:01 pm

mhackney wrote:Ok, I've now successfully reattached the PEI to my glass plate! The new roll of 3M 468MP tape (3/4" wide) did not have the smashed side like my first roll - so I got a bad roll the first time! After cleaning the glass and PEI with isopropyl alcohol, I applied the tape in close - but not quite touching - strips"

Michael, did you have the glass "wet" with isopropyl alcohol while applying the tape or did you let it dry first? I haven't done my setup, yet (I have 1/2" tape, so I'll need more strips

), but was thinking of spraying the glass with isopropyl alcohol before putting down a strip of tape so I could move it around/squeeze out any air bubbles. But I'm not 100% certain that will work with this tape (I've done it with other glass protecting adhesives).

Just curious of the exact procedure you used.

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:48 pm

No, I cleaned the glass and PEI with it and let it dry. It was easy, just take your time. I don't think it is necessary to move the tape around and don't know how it would respond to being put on wet. Might be hard to remove all the trapped iPrOH. It's not like the reflective films used on glass, it is very sticky!

bubbasnow · Post by **bubbasnow** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:02 pm

0rionN00b wrote:
bubbasnow wrote:Ok so i just did some NINJAFLEX....wow BIG PITA to get this off the PEI when printed on directly.
................................
i had to man handle these and slide a razor blade underneath... maybe print a raft first if you have to put the flex on the bottom

I'm curious - what was your bed temp during the first layers?

My experience is that if you run it up a bit (80-90), then it'll separate easily AS IT COOLS OFF (down around 65-70C). BUT if you wait till the whole thing cools, you're gonna need a crowbar to remove it....

i printed at 50c, then i forgot so it had totally cooled when i tried to remove

0rionN00b · Post by **0rionN00b** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:42 pm

bubbasnow wrote:i printed at 50c, then i forgot so it had totally cooled when i tried to remove

My experience on this has been that I'll do a "quick settings->Preheat ABS", let it warm up for 10-15, then let it cool off agaain, and it'll usually pop off easily with no damage.

I have generally never done any raft or bottom surface, so that helps a lot for getting it off..

JohnStack · Post by **JohnStack** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:32 pm

More guts than brains, I ordered four sheets of the adhesive backed. I didn't want to wait 6 weeks for Amazon. Virtual beers to all that worked on this. You know who you are!!!

[Edit] I was thinking about using a steel rod to assist in getting it down smoothly. Not sure if that will work but I thought I would try.

Cheers!

Post by **Eaglezsoar** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:22 pm

JohnStack wrote:More guts than brains, I ordered four sheets of the adhesive backed. I didn't want to wait 6 weeks for Amazon. Virtual beers to all that worked on this. You know who you are!!!

[Edit] I was thinking about using a steel rod to assist in getting it down smoothly. Not sure if that will work but I thought I would try.

Cheers!

Cheers to you with virtual glasses, they make a virtual ping.

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