Max V2 (and Orion) Questions

[whaleboy]

Hello...

*Newbie warning*

I've been reading up the past few days and am seriously considering getting a 3d printer. I've narrowed it down to a few...

Kits
Maker's toolworks Mendelmax 2
RoStock Max 2

Prebuilt
Ultimaker 2
Orion Delta
Maker's toolworks Fusematic

Being where I am I know which (2) you'd recommend, but I have a few questions on the Deltas. The specs seem to be incomplete...

I see a "Positioning accuracy of .05mm" listed for both. On other printers they list an XY resolution, which is often different than the layer resolution. What is the standard max layer resolution for the Max2 and the Orion? Most printers seem to me .1mm, while some say with extra care and tweaking can go below that (so says the Mendelmax 2 specs). Is it the same for the Deltas?

I see exterior measurements for the Orion, but not for the Max2. What is its total height and foot print?

The Orion page specifically mentions being setup for ABS, but I'd prefer to start with PLA. Is the config any different for PLA? I also find it strange that I've read that PLA is easier to print with than ABS, but the Orion page says they think ABS is better for beginners. I had originally planned on sticking w ABS, but after reading, figured PLA would be best, at least to start (Fumes being part of the reason)

Speed... The Orion lists its positioning speed, but is that different than the actual printing speed? Other printers list both specs. I know the delta is supposed to be fast, can I assume its as fast, if not faster, than the faster XY printers?

Finally, can anyone who has experience with the above printers chime in? I know some of those are fairly new though.

Thanks

-David

[Jimustanguitar]

I see a "Positioning accuracy of .05mm" listed for both. On other printers they list an XY resolution, which is often different than the layer resolution. What is the standard max layer resolution for the Max2 and the Orion? Most printers seem to me .1mm, while some say with extra care and tweaking can go below that (so says the Mendelmax 2 specs). Is it the same for the Deltas?

The Orion page specifically mentions being setup for ABS, but I'd prefer to start with PLA. Is the config any different for PLA? I also find it strange that I've read that PLA is easier to print with than ABS, but the Orion page says they think ABS is better for beginners. I had originally planned on sticking w ABS, but after reading, figured PLA would be best, at least to start (Fumes being part of the reason)

Speed... The Orion lists its positioning speed, but is that different than the actual printing speed? Other printers list both specs. I know the delta is supposed to be fast, can I assume its as fast, if not faster, than the faster XY printers?

Hi David, welcome to the forum!

To your positioning accuracy question, the nature of a delta machine makes this one difficult to specify in the same terms as a cartesian machine. For the hot-end to move from one end of the build plate to the other, it requires all 3 towers' stepper motors to move simultaneously at varying speeds. (as opposed to moving a single motor at a fixed speed) At any given point in this travel, the steppers will be moving at different relative speeds to each other than any other point in that line. You could perform the trig calculations to figure out the exact distance between each microstep, but you'd also have to factor in the steps of the other two motors, and all 3 of those values would change drastically from one end of the build area to the other... Long story short, the machines come with 200 step motors and electronics that perform 16 microsteps, so you have a very very high resolution and accuracy, but it's not easily quantified in linear terms.

For the print speed, you will reach the speed limit of the plastic far sooner than you'll hit the wall with the printer's mechanics. A delta machine can move very quickly in comparison to a cartesian machine. The positioning speed is the potential printing speed, but there isn't plastic on earth that could stand up to that process.

ABS vs PLA... Not very much difference at all. PLA requires a fan on the hot-end which is why most printer manufacturers default to ABS for the "out of the box" printing material. There's no reason why you couldn't start with PLA.

[whaleboy]

Thanks...

So it's safe to say that the layer thickness and accuracy of the other printers I listed can be easily matched by the deltas? (Realizing that fine tuning to get the finest resolution will take some work). I am looking to get as much detail as I can out of the stuff I'd be printing, with as little of the stair stepping look as possible.

Anyone have measurements as to how big the actual printer is (Rostock max 2)?

-David

[geneb]

I've printed with 50 micron layers on my v1.

[img]http://www.geneb.org/rostock-max/50-micron-cube.jpg[/img]

g.

[Brian]

Can you describe the dimensions of that cube print to give a better idea how small those layers are, or put a coin or ruler in the picture with it? I have seen people do this with their Max prints and it is very helpful. Some of your competitors put pictures of their prints on their website advertising how fine they print without any scale. If the little figurine they show is 1" tall, then I'd be impressed. If it's 8" tall then it looks like crap. The way they crop out any references in their ads makes me leery. You pic looks like it is quite small from the marks on the table.

[whaleboy]

Thanks G....

I agree I need a scale to know what I'm looking at. The sides look very textured and rough, is that intended or is the original 3d model actually smooth?

I'm getting real close to hitting the order button, but until I know the physical size of the Max2, I can't...

Anyone?

Thanks

-David

[Eaglezsoar]

Thanks G....

I agree I need a scale to know what I'm looking at. The sides look very textured and rough, is that intended or is the original 3d model actually smooth?

I'm getting real close to hitting the order button, but until I know the physical size of the Max2, I can't...

Anyone?

Thanks

-David

V2 measurements
Base diameter side to side is apx 16.75" (outside X axis to outside Y axis) at it's widest
Base depth is 17.5" front to back including LCD (15.75" without LCD)

Height with supplied rubber feet to top of melamine is 37.25"
Height with top thumb screws installed is 37.5"
Height with spool holder installed 42.5" (no spool on holder though)

[Brian]

David,

Those textures are the printed layers of the object. A tiny object will show the layers more pronounced because the layer is large relative to the object. I ws looking at the gallery for one of the printers you were considering and they have a yoda bust that has so much visible striation that it could be made from pasta. If you look at their gallery everything has some degree of layering, you can make it better by setting the printer to go slow and print thinner layers, so we don't know for sure this is the best possible output. I've seen some videos of objects made with rostock and they look quite smooth, so I believe this cube sample is very small compared to some other samples.

I see some of the objects people are making are post treated with an acetone gas and it makes them look all shiny and polished. You can do that too, but you lose detail that way.

This technology is so new it is hard to compare because there are so many variables.

[whaleboy]

V2 measurements
Base diameter side to side is apx 16.75" (outside X axis to outside Y axis) at it's widest
Base depth is 17.5" front to back including LCD (15.75" without LCD)

Height with supplied rubber feet to top of melamine is 37.25"
Height with top thumb screws installed is 37.5"
Height with spool holder installed 42.5" (no spool on holder though)

Wow. With a printable diameter of almost 2x over the Orion, I'm surprised that the Max2 base diameter only grows an inch or so. The Orion has a 16" diameter base according to the site. Looking at pics of both, I don't know why there would be such a disparity in the printable circle (6" vs 11").

Thanks

-David

[geneb]

The cube is 25mm to a side.

g.

[whaleboy]

Thanks guys, just placed an order for a Max v2 kit.

-David

[Eaglezsoar]

Great! You will love the Max V2.

[whaleboy]

Do you guys know if it comes with a roll of plastic? I believe the Orion does. Also, does it include the extra fan I'll need to print PLA?

Thanks

-David

[Eaglezsoar]

Do you guys know if it comes with a roll of plastic? I believe the Orion does. Also, does it include the extra fan I'll need to print PLA?

Thanks

-David

It does come with the fans but you will need to print out the shrouds for the fans.
I am not sure if it comes with a spool of filament.
Download the Max V2 assembly manual at http://download.seemecnc.com/rostockmax ... -Guide.pdf