PEI print bed surface experiments

bubbasnow · Post by **bubbasnow** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:30 pm

JohnStack wrote:More guts than brains, I ordered four sheets of the adhesive backed. I didn't want to wait 6 weeks for Amazon. Virtual beers to all that worked on this. You know who you are!!!

[Edit] I was thinking about using a steel rod to assist in getting it down smoothly. Not sure if that will work but I thought I would try.

Cheers!

i would get a small roller... or maybe like a used up deoderant type ball roller

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:59 pm

I think a cylinder would work better than a ball - more surface area contact and less chance of denting. I used a J-roller and it worked perfectly.

bubbasnow · Post by **bubbasnow** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:31 pm

use this with a 1.5" 1/4-20 bolt

JohnStack · Post by **JohnStack** » Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:29 pm

I got four sheets of 0.03 adhesive-backed PEI in from CS Hyde.

I cut the first sheet out to roughly the same shape as the glass.

The first trial, using a roller, I thought I would try small pulls of the backing - but it kept creating lines. As I got about half way through, I discovered that pulling off about an inch at a time doesn't create all the lines or ridges.

On the second try, only one ridge - that I hope the printer will forgive. If not, I guess i have two more - or alternatively, I'll use silicone and the PEI without the adhesive backing. It was worth a try regardless.

Interesting thing - while cleaning it in the afternoon sun, I found some scratches. Can't remember when those happened. Oh well.

Hip tip - work in a place where there is very little chance of FOD. My two golden retrievers don't help that whatsoever!!!

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:01 pm

Don't use silicone, that failed for me after a few weeks. The 3M double sided tape is the way to go.

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:01 pm

Don't use silicone, that failed for me after a few weeks. The 3M double sided tape is the way to go.

0rionN00b · Post by **0rionN00b** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:39 pm

mhackney wrote:Don't use silicone, that failed for me after a few weeks. The 3M double sided tape is the way to go.

Maybe it's me - maybe I just got lucky...

I bought the 12"x12" 3M tape listed earlier on this thread - from Amazon.. It went on perfectly, very few issues, and I've been exceedingly pleased with the results..

I don't think I've got any more unevenness than I had previously..

thenewguy · Post by **thenewguy** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:59 pm

What about printing nylon on this surface? I ask because I may just do this without the glass and stick it on my aluminum bed.

JohnStack · Post by **JohnStack** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:04 pm

mhackney wrote:Don't use silicone, that failed for me after a few weeks. The 3M double sided tape is the way to go.

ROFL - as I just started printing with it today... FML. LOLZ

Air bubbles? I saw a few as the bed started to heat.

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:14 pm

You'll see bubbles but they don't seem to be a problem. What happened with mine was the PEI started to separate from the silicone near the middle of the plate. That created a slight bulge in the PEI that was hard to see but caused problems getting the first layer down. When I took it apart, the PEI pealed off the silicone very very easily. It does not adhere to silicone that well at all. This was the smooth shinny side though, the matte side may stick better but that's the side I want to print on!

The tape has been working perfectly. I've printed much longer than I did on the silicone adhesive when it failed so I am pretty confident this will work.

JohnStack · Post by **JohnStack** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:54 pm

I got great adhesion so I'm just going to keep printing on that surface until it fails and then switch.

Now, my challenge is my E3D...but there are a number of variables I've got to isolate. I got 20 layers into a great print and failed to extrude. Let's see: replacement servo I used, gap inside the head somewhere, polishing, filament, hmmm. I'm more down than up these days on this one.

JohnStack · Post by **JohnStack** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:48 am

PEI - Failure on the 2nd Day. (Shiny side down)

Today, I turned on bed heating, went away to grab a cuppa and here's what I came back to.

Don't use 100% silicone. It won't last more than a day.

[Edit: And it will take at least an hour to scrape off the silicone from the glass. Caution: Remove the PEI in a ventiliated area. Phew!!!]

Now, I'm going for a different mod I think. Haven't seen it but who cares...

I'm going to get a round piece of 1/8 aluminum cut into the round the same size as the heated bed.
It will have a square cut out of some size. Probably something like 270 x 270.
I'll cut some boro glass the same size of the square and apply the PEI with the sticky back.
I might even figure out some kind of easy removal mech. for the glass.

The general idea is that the glass would not slide around and be easily removed after a print. I don't see how the glass might need to be held down if it fits into the square fairly tightly - even if it needs to be wedged with something a bit.

Using a square - it's easier to apply the adhesive-backed PEI (which I still have lots of).

Anything wrong with this idea?

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:56 am

(told you so!) J/K - great "fail" photo though you can really see the separation.

I am not sure why you are cutting a square hole and using square glass. There is no magic here, just adhere the PEI to an aluminum disk. You can clip this to your Onyx with binder clips. It actually would be best to adhere the PEI directly to thermally conductive Al rather than borosilicate. I just did the borosilicate since I already have an aluminum heat dissipator that is already permanently attached (screwed down). By putting it on the glass, I can flip the glass over and print on a glass surface.

Also, your PEI looks very clear. Most of the PEI I've seen is an amber color.

Post by **Eaglezsoar** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:59 am

mhackney wrote:(told you so!) J/K - great "fail" photo though you can really see the separation.

I am not sure why you are cutting a square hole and using square glass. There is no magic here, just adhere the PEI to an aluminum disk. You can clip this to your Onyx with binder clips. It actually would be best to adhere the PEI directly to thermally conductive Al rather than borosilicate. I just did the borosilicate since I already have an aluminum heat dissipator that is already permanently attached (screwed down). By putting it on the glass, I can flip the glass over and print on a glass surface.

Also, your PEI looks very clear. Most of the PEI I've seen is an amber color.

That had to feel good - I Told You So

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:01 am

I was hoping his would last at least a few weeks but a fail in a day! I couldn't resist!

JohnStack · Post by **JohnStack** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:26 am

I guess that's why the title of the post has the word "experiments" in it.

The PEI is the 0.03 stuff. It's pretty light. I got one good print out of it before my hot end failed (E3D shaft tightening - so I also polished the interior last night.)

Next up, window tint on glass - once I finish removing the damned silicone. I'm in it 45 mins already...

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:27 am

I know, removing that silicone was a PIA. I used about 10 single edge razor blades to get it off.

JohnStack · Post by **JohnStack** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:27 am

BTW, I cry foul on the term "weeks"...

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:29 am

What's wrong with "weeks"?

JohnStack · Post by **JohnStack** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:55 am

The upside:

1. When I used to sandblast art projects on glass or knurl edges, we wiped on a light coating of silicon on the edges of the glass. It makes the edges stronger and less likely to break or get live cracks on the edges. I've got loads of silicon on the edges of the glass that won't ever come off.

2. I have an intimate relationship with my round piece of borosilicate.

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:56 am

LOL at #2!

JohnStack · Post by **JohnStack** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:53 pm

Adhesive-backed PEI trial.

I am printing JetPad's Top Mounted Ezstruder Holder Thingy.

First Print:
Glue Stick
70 C, .25 First Layer, .3 after

I got edge bad enough to stop the print. Mainly aesthetic curl, not structural.

Second Print:
85 C
Same settings.

I have about .5mm edge curl on one corner but not enough to stop the print.

I'll hang with this and see how long it lasts. Unless I want to really exact retribution on someone who parks really poorly, I don't have a good use for the other two sheets of adhesive-backed PEI...

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:56 pm

I'm confused - why are you using glue stick on PEI? You should be able to print directly to the PEI with nothing else and get fantastic stick and no curl. Are you printing ABS? If not, 85°C is too hot for the bed for PLA. I run 55° for PLA and 70° for ABS. Printing on hotter beds makes it very difficult to remove the part.

JohnStack · Post by **JohnStack** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:03 pm

I didn't have good adhesion at 70 with ABS.
I put glue stick on at 70 and had better adhesion.
I turned up the heat to 85 and had even better adhesion - but not perfect adhesion.

This is shiny side up...

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PEI print bed surface experiments

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