Should Rostock MAX V2 be my first printer?

[Steel_Neuron]

Hello SeeMeCNC Forum! Nice to meet you.

I'm an electronics engineer (recently graduated) and I'm planning to get into 3D printing in a big way. I'm currently reading on different models, trying to decide which should be my first 3D printer, with a budget of 1000 euro (roughly 1400 USD).

So far I got it down to three models. I'm trying to decide between the Rostock MAX V2, the Ditto + by Tinkerine, and the Ultimaker Original. They three are within my price range, they are kits (which is a plus for me, as I enjoy the challenge of building it myself, plus future moddability) and seem to be well regarded by the community. I'm having a hard time deciding which one to choose as my final pick, though. I don't care much about speed, but I'd like to strike a good balance between a reasonably big printing volume, good resolution, and reliability (I wouldn't like to have many prints failing mid-job as I typically won't be around to oversee it).

I decided to make an account in the forum of each of the three makers (although I'm not sure if Tinkerine has one) and ask for opinions on which one I should choose. I realize there might be a conflict of interests and that most people here will probably lean towards the Rostock, but it's okay, you can go ahead and convince me! I would appreciate an unbiased point of view though .

I don't know much about 3D printing yet, but so far this is the mini list of pros and cons that I put together. Please correct them if I'm wrong!:

Rostock MAX v2
I'm liking the Rostock MAX V2 because of the big printing area, and because it seems to have high quality despite the low pricetag. I see pictures of it and it looks... Professional. It prints with both ABS and PLA which I like a lot, plus it seems that most of the assembly problems that the Rostock MAX original had have been fixed with the V2 redesign. However, I'm not sure about its resolution and detail (I haven't seen any small, detailed prints with it *hint, hint*), and being in Europe I'm not sure if I can find a retailer that won't cost me an arm and a leg in shipping fees. Also, I'm not sure how reliable it is compared to cartesian machines.

Ditto+
I've read good things about the Ditto+, but it seems like it hasn't been around enough for me to find opinions in forums. It looks to my untrained eyes like an upgrade to the Ultimaker original in the same price range, and seems to strike a good balance of detail and volume. However, it doesn't print ABS out of the box, needing an upgrade for that. The company is Canada based so the retailer issue may be even worse.

Ultimaker Original
A lot of people swear for the Ultimaker Original and it seems to be pretty established. My main concern with it is that it's a couple years old, and seeing how fast this technology advances, maybe it's not the best idea to go with a product that might be slightly outdated. However, It seems to print in good quality, and it has a big presence in Europe so I wouldn't have problems with shipping.

Sorry for the long read. That's where I stand right now. Any feedback, corrections, and opinions are very welcome! I will also accept recommendations for other printers, but I'm trying to narrow it down to these three because otherwise I'm going to die of information overload .

Thank you very much in advance!

[Eaglezsoar]

I don't know a thing about the ditto so I cannot comment.
You would quickly outgrow the 210mm X 210mm X 205mm(Z) capacity of the Ultimaker.
The Rostock Max V2 has the capacity you will eventually need, is a fine printer and does print the small
and large parts on par with any printer that even comes near its price range. I am not going to waste time
trying to sell you on Max V2 because it matters little to me what you buy. If you find one that has the Max V2
capacity at its price point, buy it.

[Nylocke]

Not to be "that guy" but someone's gotta vouch for the Ultimaker. The design is from last year, yes, but mechanically it is doubtful to become outdated, and since it's open source and easily modable, the parts that can get outdated (electronics, hotend, Extruder) can be easily replaced (mine has a 3mm Pico hotend, a Greg/Wades reloaded Extruder, and RAMPS electronics opposed to the stock setup). That said, this is also true for the MAX.

Many users have E3D all metal hotends, a few have smoothie boards or Due powered printing shields for faster processing, and Mhackney has a Kracken from E3d (water cooled all metal Bowden fed quad hotend) with an Azteeg X3 Pro to power it. So either route is easy to upgrade and customize to your needs/wants.

Either of those decisions would be great, and I'm sure there will be much more support for the MAX around here.

[Nylocke]

I haven't outgrown my Ultimaker's build area, Eagle :/

[Eaglezsoar]

I haven't outgrown my Ultimaker's build area, Eagle :/

Probably because you can't.

[Nylocke]

Hey now, shots fired!

[lordbinky]

I don't have a V2 much less a stock printer anymore... but I the V1 is my first printer and I found it to be a great value. The R-Max is also a great platform for modification. You want taller prints? 3 new rails + 3 new belts are all that's required. Want more precise steppers? Only need to replace 3 stepper motors.

The most signficant issue with Delta style builds is that they are more sensitive in their construction and deviation from the ideal build geometry and the effects from this are not intuitive until you understand them well. They still offer many benefits in size and speed that many believe more than make up for this. Also, even cartesian lovers admit deltas are more fun to watch print.

Since most people try to make use of their large build volume, they do not make use of the small bore nozzles ( like .25 mm nozzles) very often, so you don't see many examples of their limits in both x/y resolution and layer height (z) resolution. Still there's a few great examples of sub .1mm layer prints on the forums. The upper limit of resolution for a properly constructed delta printer is due to the electronics/software of the printer. Regardless the Delta styles are not suffering any disadvantage in resolution and increasing that attribute doesn't require reworking/replaceing any of the framework.

Once you have the printer built and calibrated, they are very reliable over time if you leave it alone and print. Since they are such a good platform for upgrades... I for one don't have the willpower to resist my urge to improve the machine...which leads to me increasing it's capability shortly after I get everything tuned back up. If you can resist that (but why would you want to!?) I think they offer the best value for a kit.

As long as you're willing to learn their nuances, I believe a Delta printer and particularly a Rostock Max, would be a great first printer (it was for me).

[geolupulus]

Admittedly, I have only been printing for a few weeks having recently purchased a Rostock V2 as my first printer. However I have only had one job fail, and that was user error (not calibrating my Z height correctly). The nozzle pressed against the glass plate and no filament was allowed to extrude. This caused the extruder to wear right through the filament while I slept. When I awoke, the printer was still furiously trying to print but no filament was coming out. In my mind, it was a tiny loss as I only lost time and maybe 2 feet of filament. Oh and I had issues with the dang axles walking out as the machine moved. (Solved that with some PTFE powder spray on the axles.) I haven't had any issues with the printer failing at all on its own accord. I have no issue leaving it alone to print now that it is correctly calibrated. I leave it overnight and set up prints in the morning before I leave the house for work. It seems to be a solid printer and delivered what I needed for my first printer: large build volume, many printing filament options, and quite inexpensive compared to the alternatives. Since setting it up and running it frequently I have only had to lubricate the axles and adjust the belts once. It really is a great machine! I wish you luck solving your dilemma.

[Nylocke]

IAlso, even cartesian lovers admit deltas are more fun to watch print.

I can vouch for that

Also, the MAX I built for my work I could load sideways into my car (V1 MAX, Acura TL, can't fit in trunk, gotta go in the back seat ), take out, handle (not so) carefully by the extrusions, set down (probably not) gently on a table, and just print stuff. I rarely even had to adjust the endstop screws.

[Steel_Neuron]

Alright guys, I'm pretty much convinced that I want to get a Max V2

There is one problem remaining: The shipping issue. Do you know of any European retailer? Any Europeans here that figured out how to get it with reasonable shipping fees?

Thanks!

[PopolZ]

Alright guys, I'm pretty much convinced that I want to get a Max V2

There is one problem remaining: The shipping issue. Do you know of any European retailer? Any Europeans here that figured out how to get it with reasonable shipping fees?

Thanks!

http://forum.seemecnc.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=1034

[heathenx]

@Steel_Neuron
If you are wondering about the RMaxv2 print quality then post an stl file for us to print (something that doesn't take long, please). We'll post pictures. Know this...slicers matter. I get different results with pretty much every slicer I've used.

[Steel_Neuron]

@Steel_Neuron
If you are wondering about the RMaxv2 print quality then post an stl file for us to print (something that doesn't take long, please). We'll post pictures. Know this...slicers matter. I get different results with pretty much every slicer I've used.

Would you do that! You are amazing, thanks!

To be honest though, since I haven't really printed yet, I'm not sure providing my own .stl would ease my doubts more than just seeing your current prints So if you have a picture of a print you can show me (especially if I can also see the STL and get a sense of scale) that would be great. Although to be fair, I've been looking at Rostock prints, and they've impressed me a lot, in particular those with the smoothieboard and the magnetic ball mod.

Alright guys, I'm pretty much convinced that I want to get a Max V2

There is one problem remaining: The shipping issue. Do you know of any European retailer? Any Europeans here that figured out how to get it with reasonable shipping fees?

Thanks!

http://forum.seemecnc.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=1034

Thanks! Are those guys alive though? The page seems like hasn't been updated for years, and their shop ( http://creativemachines.co.uk/store/index.php ) looks to me as if in permanent maintenance.

[heathenx]

Here are some pictures of a part that I printed recently in white PLA. My preferred color is white because it hides imperfections better than any other color. Unfortunately, it's hard to focus on it with a camera. I also replaced my stock .5mm nozzle with a .35mm one. The white part is probably printed at 100 micron. It's dimensionally very close in size to the red molded ABS part. I also print a lot slower than most other Rostock users that I know. 30-40mm/s range. Also, this particular print was sliced with Simplify 3D.

PS. Sorry for the crummy lighting in the photos. Was in a hurry.

[Steel_Neuron]

Wow, that is impressive! I'm very surprised with that level of quality. I've been looking at other prints and I'm decided.

Unfortunately, after contacting the guys at Creative Machines, they don't sell rostock kits anymore. That leaves me with FUTUR3D, which are Czech Republic based. Unfortunately, their website is completely in czech and the price they're charging for a Rostock V2 doesn't seem like a good deal (1200 euro if my money conversion is correct), so I'm afraid that I'll have to go with importing from the US. Which isn't that bad in terms of shipping fees, but they will slap a 21-30% import tax on it no doubt.

However, if I undestand correctly, I shouldn't pay US sales tax, right? So I guess it balances out.

If you have any ideas please, go ahead

[Polygonhell]

However, if I undestand correctly, I shouldn't pay US sales tax, right? So I guess it balances out.

Prices in the US are without sales tax added, and to make you feel worse because sales tax is paid to the State and not the Federal government, the vast majority of US customers don't pay sales tax on the Max. Only those in the same state as SeeMeCNC's physical location.

[heathenx]

Well, I'm afraid that I don't know much about import taxes and shipping and such. The Rostock is a great piece if equipment. I love how accessible the machine is too. BUT! You need to be aware that it will take quite a bit of calibration to get quality prints out of it. I feel like I'm still calibrating. Still, I'd buy another in a heartbeat. They are a lot of fun to play with.