Clunking Noise???

[AndThenSome09]

When my printer is doing really small areas like around corners with a screw hole it makes this kinda clunking noise, it sounds really strange and only does it on these small areas where it is starting and stopping the filament flow really fast. I cant seem to catch it in a way that allows me to make out which motor is making the noise.

Anyone out there experience this same thing and care to share?? I'd greatly appreciate it! Any ideas, guesses, whatever might help, I'm lost on this one and haven't been able to figure it out. I just recently had to replace one of my stepper motors, the X axis, and I want to try and figure this out. I'm kinda wondering if this may be the cause of my blown stepper, IDK but I would rather be safe than sorry! I don't really have a bunch of good quality steppers hanging out waiting for another to die and of course money is tight as ever!!

Thanks for the help guys! ~~Happy Printing!!!

[Captain Starfish]

The worst clunking I've had was from the extruder. Lightly hold the end of the stepper shaft between thumb and index finger - let it spin freely, just feel the flat of the shaft going around. If you can feel it skipping when you hear the clunk, you know.

For me it turned out to be a combination of a really crappy thermistor calibration (fixed by using a thermocouple and comparing the two, then switching the firmware to use a custom thermistor profile) together with the driver chip for the extruder on the RAMBO board overheating (fixed with a fan over the rambo board).

[Tonkabot]

I had a mild clunking, it turned out to be the reel of filament moving ahead on the laser cut filament spool holder. I plan to print a rounded piece to fit over it, I saw one somewhere. I hope that will help my clunk.

For me it turned out to be a combination of a really crappy thermistor calibration (fixed by using a thermocouple and comparing the two, then switching the firmware to use a custom thermistor profile) together with the driver chip for the extruder on the RAMBO board overheating (fixed with a fan over the rambo board).

Ah, how do you make a good measurement with the thermocouple? My new Fluke has the thermocouple, and when I pressed it to the nozzle I saw numbers 30 degrees colder than the RAMBO reported.

If I clamp the thermocouple to the head with a kapton covered clip of some kind will that be good enough?

I also wonder if my two recent PLA jams were from the nozzle being to cold (190 the first time, 210 the next time)

[Eaglezsoar]

I had a mild clunking, it turned out to be the reel of filament moving ahead on the laser cut filament spool holder. I plan to print a rounded piece to fit over it, I saw one somewhere. I hope that will help my clunk.

For me it turned out to be a combination of a really crappy thermistor calibration (fixed by using a thermocouple and comparing the two, then switching the firmware to use a custom thermistor profile) together with the driver chip for the extruder on the RAMBO board overheating (fixed with a fan over the rambo board).

Ah, how do you make a good measurement with the thermocouple? My new Fluke has the thermocouple, and when I pressed it to the nozzle I saw numbers 30 degrees colder than the RAMBO reported.

If I clamp the thermocouple to the head with a kapton covered clip of some kind will that be good enough?

I also wonder if my two recent PLA jams were from the nozzle being to cold (190 the first time, 210 the next time)

The best way to measure with a thermocouple would be to remove the filament from the hotend then remove the bowden tube and insert the thermocouple until it bottoms out against the inside of the nozzle.
If you are running 30 degrees cooler than the reported temperature that is the most likely cause your PLA jams, it is running 30 degrees cooler than it should be.

[Captain Starfish]

I tried that and got very flaky results.

Better by far I reckon to unscrew the nozzle, smear the thermocouple with a bit of white heat sink paste, slip it between the back of the nozzle and the heater block and just tighten it enough to hold the thermocouple in place.

Just my 2 cents. And yeah, I was out by 20° or so. Makes a big difference!

[guanu]

typically that clunk is it doing a rapid move, but a tiny one.. if you have your rapid speeds high, and it changes the perimeter it will clunk like that when it does the small movement to the next row... I've seen it a lot.. its like a super fast, small travel that doesnt need a retract, so it just jumps and makes a clunk sound... my printer at home does it too

Guanu

[AndThenSome09]

typically that clunk is it doing a rapid move, but a tiny one.. if you have your rapid speeds high, and it changes the perimeter it will clunk like that when it does the small movement to the next row... I've seen it a lot.. its like a super fast, small travel that doesnt need a retract, so it just jumps and makes a clunk sound... my printer at home does it too

Guanu

Yes, that's exactly what is is, small but fast movements.

[TFMike]

I tried that and got very flaky results.

Better by far I reckon to unscrew the nozzle, smear the thermocouple with a bit of white heat sink paste, slip it between the back of the nozzle and the heater block and just tighten it enough to hold the thermocouple in place.

Just my 2 cents. And yeah, I was out by 20° or so. Makes a big difference!

I am about to do the same thing with this thermocouple: http://www.filastruder.com/products/fil ... ermocouple

AND this PID: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dual-Digital-F- ... 0657797579

So do I just wire the power supply to area 1 and 2 on the PID, screw in the thermocouple and go from there? Seems too simple and like I'm missing a few steps.

[Captain Starfish]

No, you will most likely need a solid state relay as well. That PID is a controller with a very low output power, you'll kill it if you wire a heater into it direct.

I would NOT put the thermocouple end in behind the nozzle as a production measure. That nozzle needs to be snug in the heater block for efficient operation and the thermocouple holding it off will turn the job output to rubbish. I only put it there when the unit is stationary to check against the thermistor output.

When my gear arrives I'll do a quick how-to on wiring a thermocouple into the hot-end to replace the thermistor, on connecting it through an interface board, on wiring it back to the controller and on updating the firmware to use the SPI or I2C output from the interface board instead of the thermistor inputs.

[Eaglezsoar]

No, you will most likely need a solid state relay as well. That PID is a controller with a very low output power, you'll kill it if you wire a heater into it direct.

I would NOT put the thermocouple end in behind the nozzle as a production measure. That nozzle needs to be snug in the heater block for efficient operation and the thermocouple holding it off will turn the job output to rubbish. I only put it there when the unit is stationary to check against the thermistor output.

When my gear arrives I'll do a quick how-to on wiring a thermocouple into the hot-end to replace the thermistor, on connecting it through an interface board, on wiring it back to the controller and on updating the firmware to use the SPI or I2C output from the interface board instead of the thermistor inputs.

Hey Captain, you can bet we will hold you to your promise!

[Captain Starfish]

Lol, no worries.

Hardest part is remembering to drag the camera out at the start, rather than when it's all done.

Still waiting for parts. I've just yesterday ordered non screw-in thermocouples in case I can't get the 6mm threaded bore for the tidy ones. Hoping that a cartridge heater will free up the right kind of hole on the standard hot-end to put the thermocouple in the 2nd resistor hole. Will see!

[TFMike]

I just so happen to have a solid state relay as well, waiting on you boss to show the goods unless there is a tutorial already out there somewhere, been a nightmare tryin to find one through various keywords on here.

[Captain Starfish]

I won't be using a PID, Mike - the thermocouple will go into something like the olimex part used by EvilFz1 in this post or a cheaper version on ebay, and that circuit gets wired into an expansion port on the RAMBO. That way I can still software control everything per normal, which you won't be able to do with the PID.

The PID wiring diagram in the eBay item description does show you how to wire it up.

[TFMike]

I won't be using a PID, Mike - the thermocouple will go into something like the olimex part used by EvilFz1 in this post or a cheaper version on ebay, and that circuit gets wired into an expansion port on the RAMBO. That way I can still software control everything per normal, which you won't be able to do with the PID.

The PID wiring diagram in the eBay item description does show you how to wire it up.

See I was under the impression that I could use the PID-thermocouple setup I have (solid state relay now too) as a way to check the temperature every so often and make adjustments accordingly. Of course if I am completely off base on this let me know. I had no intention of leaving it on the Orion all the time

[Captain Starfish]

Ahhh, yes.

Forget the relay. Power and thermocouple inputs only and don't bother with a setpoint, just read off the temp. I do this with a multimeter that I bought for twenty or thirty bucks off eBay but it'll do the same thing.

Sorry, I thought you meant you'd be wiring the PID in as the means of driving the hot end temperature!

[TFMike]

The thing is, once I read the temp on my thermocouple and it turns out to be way off from what the Orion thinks it is i have literally no clue what to do, I hadn't thought that far ahead :/

[Polygonhell]

The thing is, once I read the temp on my thermocouple and it turns out to be way off from what the Orion thinks it is i have literally no clue what to do, I hadn't thought that far ahead :/

You can adjust the beta value in the firmware to correct the reading, or just adjust the temperature you are setting it to, to account for the error.

[TFMike]

You can adjust the beta value in the firmware to correct the reading, or just adjust the temperature you are setting it to, to account for the error.

You're talking to a retard when it comes to things of this sort Polygon, I need some type of tutorial with big pictures for this. Where is the beta value in the firmware? Should I update to the latest firmware before or after doing this? I'm running the old firmware that shipped with the orions in november.

[Captain Starfish]

One thing at a time. Is the thermistor reading off?

Mine has wandered, too, so I need to recalibrate my thermistor whilst I await the thermocouple rig's arrival. I'll throw a how-to up somewhere because I can't find one.

[TFMike]

One thing at a time. Is the thermistor reading off?

Mine has wandered, too, so I need to recalibrate my thermistor whilst I await the thermocouple rig's arrival. I'll throw a how-to up somewhere because I can't find one.

Ok, one thing at a time boss, gonna go ahead and check it now and post the results, I eagerly await your tutorial. Try not to throw too much Aussie slang into it cuz my ass has a hard enough time with this as is.

[Eaglezsoar]

You can adjust the beta value in the firmware to correct the reading, or just adjust the temperature you are setting it to, to account for the error.

You're talking to a retard when it comes to things of this sort Polygon, I need some type of tutorial with big pictures for this. Where is the beta value in the firmware? Should I update to the latest firmware before or after doing this? I'm running the old firmware that shipped with the orions in november.

I to need instructions on adjusting the beta values or how to create custom Thermistor tables. I think this is an area that a lot of us are deficient in.

[Captain Starfish]

I to need instructions on adjusting the beta values or how to create custom Thermistor tables. I think this is an area that a lot of us are deficient in.

Done.

[TFMike]

Finally, after tearing up two electrical chords (cords?) I realized that I didn't need to run the power through an AC adapter, and instead I just shot 120V (aussies do what, 220v?, I blew up more than a few things on those style outlets for damn sure, but that's a diff story for a diff time) straight through to my PID to get this lovely photo:

The PID reads 201.3, the Orion reads 200.8, well back to the old drawing board I guess. At least now I don't have to mess with the beta value in the firmware so I get to kick that can down the road but I still have no idea why my prints are comin out all weird. Could it be that during long prints the hot end thermistor gets crazy/lazy?

[Captain Starfish]

240V, 50Hz here but good to see it's working nicely.

And good to see your thermistor was behaving too. Mine's back to calibration now after this morning's efforts, need to reset all my print settings because I've been getting away with nice hot goopy ABS for some time so speeds could be silly fast, layer fan helped, etc, etc, etc.

The joys of printing.

So, back to the clunking - are you feeling it on the spindle of the extruder stepper? My next step would be getting some fan cooling on the RAMBO board.

[TFMike]

I hear what sounds like a SNAP at times, almost like my spool of filament is being jarred awake from its slumber, also when I turn on the hot end the peek fan makes a clicking noise as well, I took it down and sanded the housing but it didn't seem to make a whole lot of difference, the noise is still there. Also sometimes when I turn on the Orion itself I hear a clicking noise coming from the housing, almost like a wire is caught in the blades of the internal fan, I have no idea what to do about either of these problems unfortunately and I am hoping that solving them helps my prints in the long run. It could also be possible that the peek fan shuts down on my long prints and causes the hot end to act strangely, here is a picture of my internal PTFE tubing, no idea how it got to be this color:

I have learned that seemecnc now ships the orions stock with a different setup for internal ptfe tube, I feel like this may be part of the reason for grinding filament/poor hot end performance as the filament gets finagled around in there and slowly builds up pressure....my theory anyway. I guess I will also have to learn how to mod the firmware in order to print hotter than 230 if need be, as the ABS can handle a bit hotter than that and so can the peek.