PEI print bed surface experiments

[mhackney]

I agree with Eaglesoarz. But do not go courser!

[dkaustin]

New to the party, but reading this thread with great interest.

Here's an idea rattling around in my head; let me throw it out here and see if it makes sense.

How about a mic-6 plate bead blasted to create a matte surface then coated with a PEI/solvent solution and dried. The film could be spin-cast to create a uniform thickness. Although chemical resistance is one of PEI's virtues, it can reportedly be dissolved in (among others) acetophenone,anisole, chlorobenzene, dichlorobenzene (DCB), ortho dichlorobenzene, para dichlorobenzene, xylene, toluene, mesitylene, dimethyl acrylamide, and methylene chloride. If the preparation is done carefully, this should eliminate any issues of bubbling and delamination. Naturally, these solvents need to be treated with respect, but most of the folks here should be savvy enough to handle them safely.

Does the idea have any merit?

[Eaglezsoar]

New to the party, but reading this thread with great interest.

Here's an idea rattling around in my head; let me throw it out here and see if it makes sense.

How about a mic-6 plate bead blasted to create a matte surface then coated with a PEI/solvent solution and dried. The film could be spin-cast to create a uniform thickness. Although chemical resistance is one of PEI's virtues, it can reportedly be dissolved in (among others) acetophenone,anisole, chlorobenzene, dichlorobenzene (DCB), ortho dichlorobenzene, para dichlorobenzene, xylene, toluene, mesitylene, dimethyl acrylamide, and methylene chloride. If the preparation is done carefully, this should eliminate any issues of bubbling and delamination. Naturally, these solvents need to be treated with respect, but most of the folks here should be savvy enough to handle them safely.

Does the idea have any merit?

It does have merit but is more complex than is needed. The PEI can simply be taped to the Mic-6 and provide a level enough surface for 3D printing, it's been
done by dozens of our own users and has worked fine.

[mhackney]

The major drawback is that MIC-6 is only available down to .25" thick. That is a LOT of mass to heat up and would be a show stopper for the stock power supplies and would even tax the 20 amp 24 v supply I use. I've been looking for a source for "flat" aluminum in 2mm or 1/8" for over a year. I use MIC-6 a lot in my shop and have looked at it and the competitor but neither is available in thinner sheets.

Also, fyi to all, the tape works perfectly - no bubbles or delays after 100s of hours of use.


cheers,
Michael

[aerouta]

As anyone tried print large ABS or Nylon prints on this surface? I just printed a large object (large footprint) and it was so hard to get off the plate. I eventually got it off but it create slight "humps" in the PEI. I am pretty sure the plate, glass included, is ruined. I do not believe that I can replace the PEI once it is on, and removing all the tape would take hours. I am using the 0.03 PEI plate with the Tapecase 468MP.

[mhackney]

Yes with ABS. I don't think PEI is suitable for nylon, at least no one I've heard has tried it.

There are a few tricks; 1) use the lowest bed temperature that gets good stick 2) remove the part immediately, don't allow the bed to cool 3) if during 2 the part is difficult to remove or if y9ou wait until the bed has cold, chill the bed/part in the refrigerator and it will literally SNAP off!

I don't think it would be difficult to remove the PEI, I've done it 3 times. Once after gluing with gasket cement, once after silicone seal and ounce after 3M tape. Since you used tape, lift an edge and squirt a little acetone in there. It will work its way in, lift and squirt. It will come off pretty easily.

[aerouta]

Yes with ABS. I don't think PEI is suitable for nylon, at least no one I've heard has tried it.

There are a few tricks; 1) use the lowest bed temperature that gets good stick 2) remove the part immediately, don't allow the bed to cool 3) if during 2 the part is difficult to remove or if y9ou wait until the bed has cold, chill the bed/part in the refrigerator and it will literally SNAP off!

I don't think it would be difficult to remove the PEI, I've done it 3 times. Once after gluing with gasket cement, once after silicone seal and ounce after 3M tape. Since you used tape, lift an edge and squirt a little acetone in there. It will work its way in, lift and squirt. It will come off pretty easily.

Thanks for the tips.

regarding (3). I would have thought that letting the part cool would make it easier to snap off?

[mhackney]

Not to room temp, but if you keep cooling to fridge temps, then yes.

[Holy1]

I've also put it in the freezer for a few minutes. Worked well.

[apostoly]

so now that a few of you have played around with PEI, what seems to be the best in terms of adhesive?

i was about to order a few sheet but then though i might as well make the order for all parts in one go.

[mhackney]

The 3M tape is the ONLY way to go.

[Eaglezsoar]

Here is a link to the tape if you have a hard time finding it: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007Y7 ... UTF8&psc=1

[apostoly]

Thanks guys, putting an order through now.

[Broose]

Is PEI worth installing for PLA if you don't have a heated bed? I put together a Kossel Mini without a heated bed for PLA only.

[mhackney]

No, it needs to be hot to get good stick. I tried it unheated and it doesn't work at all. Blue tape is the best bet I think for PLA with no heated bed. That's what I'm doing on my Kossel Mini.

[Eaglezsoar]

Is PEI worth installing for PLA if you don't have a heated bed? I put together a Kossel Mini without a heated bed for PLA only.

Michael should answer this question since he has the most experience. Barring that then someone with PEI performance experience should answer this.

[mhackney]

Already did Eagle!

[Eaglezsoar]

Already did Eagle!

We must be posting at the same time or very very close.

[atoff]

Just received my PEI sheet from Amazon, this stuff is really expensive! I paid $20 after tax, it looks like the price jumped to a ridiculous $26 on Amazon, but still $18+change from Amazon Supply. I'm waiting on the tape to install. Well worth it though, if it means I can print without any REAL prep (glue, etc).

[mhackney]

Worth every penny. I just ordered a 12x24 sheet for 2 mini kossels. I llllooooovvvveeee PEI.

[Holy1]

Just received my PEI sheet from Amazon, this stuff is really expensive! I paid $20 after tax, it looks like the price jumped to a ridiculous $26 on Amazon, but still $18+change from Amazon Supply. I'm waiting on the tape to install. Well worth it though, if it means I can print without any REAL prep (glue, etc).

Indeed, worth every penny. You will love it!

[atoff]

Looking forward to it! I've been printing small test prints on paper, which is fantastic. No prep, no clean-up, it just works, but curls like crazy, since I"m just clipping the paper in place.

The only problem is, I don't have a way of cutting the PEI sheet to a disc, I have just a Dremel with those cheap cutting wheels... think that'll work without damaging it?

[mhackney]

I'm assuming you got the .03" PEI sheet? I'd recommend cutting it a bit larger diameter, say 13", than your glass plate (assuming 12" Onyx glass). Then attach with the tape. You can then trim using your dremel or a sharp hobby knife or box cutter with a new blade. You won't damage the PEI. It might look like a POS though! You can use sandpaper (320 grit) or files to smooth the edge and bring it right up to the glass. Give it a shot, I'm sure it will be fine.

[jesse]

I also had good results printing on PEI 12"x12"x0.03" from Amazon.

[atoff]

I'm assuming you got the .03" PEI sheet? I'd recommend cutting it a bit larger diameter, say 13", than your glass plate (assuming 12" Onyx glass). Then attach with the tape. You can then trim using your dremel or a sharp hobby knife or box cutter with a new blade. You won't damage the PEI. It might look like a POS though! You can use sandpaper (320 grit) or files to smooth the edge and bring it right up to the glass. Give it a shot, I'm sure it will be fine.

Well, for a minute I was amused, because I was going to ask how I'd cut a 12x12 sheet to 13 inches , but then I went to measure the sheet and test fit... knowing the onyx glass is 12" diameter, should fit the diameter, however, it was very short. About half an inch short. Not sure what to do at this point. It would mean the glass side would be unusable if I were to install this.