PEI print bed surface experiments

atoff · Post by **atoff** » Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:10 am

Yeah, it's a shame, but at least returning these won't be a hassle.

apostoly · Post by **apostoly** » Sat Jun 14, 2014 1:45 am

Well i put an order in on the 24th of may, i made sure they had sheets in stock (according to Amazon anyway) and the estimated delivery date is july 2nd -july 30th !!!

I also ordered some 3m transfer tape and chose the "ship together option" but they sent out the tape a few days later and received it not to long ago.

Not sure why the wait to ship out PEI is so long?? anyone else have to wait this long?. I have the option to cancel before they charge me, im wondering if i should source from somewhere else now??

Paul

Lightpath · Post by **Lightpath** » Sat Jun 14, 2014 4:26 am

apostoly wrote: Not sure why the wait to ship out PEI is so long?? anyone else have to wait this long?. I have the option to cancel before they charge me, im wondering if i should source from somewhere else now??

You're in OZ, no? There may be extra import restrictions on certain types of plastics, and it has to go through additional paperwork. Just a thought.

Lightpath · Post by **Lightpath** » Sat Jun 14, 2014 4:31 am

I was a bit of an idiot, and ordered a 1/8" sheet of PEI a while ago, and cut it to size. As per the other comments in this thread it is a bear to heat. Based on using a handheld Infrared Thermometer I figure there's a 12 degree variance between the thermistor reading and the actual surface temp of the PEI. I've cut mine into a round to fit onto the bed properly so it won't be going back. Anyway, I will continue to dork around with this sheet to see how well it works but I may in the end order a .04 sheet to replace it. I'm working on a 1/4" aluminum heat spreader as well, I have the material I just need to cut it to fit. That might help a little.

atoff · Post by **atoff** » Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:17 pm

Well, my sister picked up my 0.04 inch sheet that I had ordered from McMaster Carr (she lives about 2 miles from them). Looks to be a smidge over 12 inches on each side, so we're good to go!

The Onyx glass is about 12 1/4 inches I believe, and the sheet measured just a teensy bit over that.

Post by **Eaglezsoar** » Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:27 pm

atoff wrote:Well, my sister picked up my 0.04 inch sheet that I had ordered from McMaster Carr (she lives about 2 miles from them). Looks to be a smidge over 12 inches on each side, so we're good to go! The Onyx glass is about 12 1/4 inches I believe, and the sheet measured just a teensy bit over that.

When you tape the PEI to the glass I would welcome any comments you would make in how to do it without air bubbles, etc.

atoff · Post by **atoff** » Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:44 pm

Eaglezsoar wrote:
atoff wrote:Well, my sister picked up my 0.04 inch sheet that I had ordered from McMaster Carr (she lives about 2 miles from them). Looks to be a smidge over 12 inches on each side, so we're good to go! The Onyx glass is about 12 1/4 inches I believe, and the sheet measured just a teensy bit over that.
When you tape the PEI to the glass I would welcome any comments you would make in how to do it without air bubbles, etc.

Will post results! My projects tend to move reeeaally slowly due to back pain, but hopefully I'll get it done this week. Still thinking about how I'm going to approach it.

Post by **Eaglezsoar** » Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:07 pm

atoff wrote:
Eaglezsoar wrote:
atoff wrote:Well, my sister picked up my 0.04 inch sheet that I had ordered from McMaster Carr (she lives about 2 miles from them). Looks to be a smidge over 12 inches on each side, so we're good to go! The Onyx glass is about 12 1/4 inches I believe, and the sheet measured just a teensy bit over that.
When you tape the PEI to the glass I would welcome any comments you would make in how to do it without air bubbles, etc.
Will post results! My projects tend to move reeeaally slowly due to back pain, but hopefully I'll get it done this week. Still thinking about how I'm going to approach it.

Know all about bad backs and the pain they can cause. Make sure you read Mhackney's thread on PEI.
A lot of info there!

Lightpath · Post by **Lightpath** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 12:10 pm

I tried several prints last night on my PIE surface at different temps, with ABS, and finally had to use glue stick- I'll continue to experiment but I just wanted to get the print done.

My setup for the printbed sandwich is:

1/8" PIE
Boro glass
1/4" aluminum heat spreader
The print bed itself. The whole thing is held together by binder clips.

I tried these three temp settings with the same results, parts curling off the bed after several layers:

Bed set at 78 degrees, surface of the PIE measured at 65 degrees with a handheld laser thermometer.
Bed set at 90 degrees, surface of the PIE measured at ~76 degrees
Bed set at 70 degrees, surface of the PIE measured at ~56 degrees.

Glue stick held perfectly but as stated above, that kind of negates the usefulness of the PIE part of the sandwich. I'll drop by home depot and grab some 1500 grit on my way home from work tomorrow, and see if lightly scuffing the surface helps.

Truthfully I think my PIE may just be too thick to really be manageable, or maybe I need to remove the glass. I'm not 100% sure I need it truthfully. I may take the aluminum to techshop and mill it flat, I think that might eliminate the need for the glass but I'm interested in what you guys think.

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 12:13 pm

Make sure to clean the PEI with rubbing alcohol well then try it. A little trick I use - BUT PLEASE READ THIS CAREFULLY - is to use 2000 grit (do NOT USE anything courser than this) and gently sand the surface. I get 100% stick for dozens of prints then do this again. Been working this way for months now with "0" failures.

Lightpath · Post by **Lightpath** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:27 am

Great tips! I'm ordering some 2000 grit. I have isopropyl alcohol already, and I'm pretty sure that is the same as rubbing alcohol. I could never keep the differences straight.

Post by **Eaglezsoar** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:38 am

mhackney wrote:Make sure to clean the PEI with rubbing alcohol well then try it. A little trick I use - BUT PLEASE READ THIS CAREFULLY - is to use 2000 grit (do NOT USE anything courser than this) and gently sand the surface. I get 100% stick for dozens of prints then do this again. Been working this way for months now with "0" failures.

Do you use the sandpaper dry or with a little water?

bdjohns1 · Post by **bdjohns1** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:34 pm

Most 2000-grit stuff I've seen is wet-dry - when you're sanding / polishing that finely, having some water around helps to carry away the material you're removing, and prevent your paper from clogging up.

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:36 pm

I use it dry. Works fine that way. DON'T use a lot of pressure, you are just trying to scuff the surface a little. Then I wipe with a bit of alcohol and I'm good to go for dozens of prints.

Post by **Eaglezsoar** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:08 pm

mhackney wrote:I use it dry. Works fine that way. DON'T use a lot of pressure, you are just trying to scuff the surface a little. Then I wipe with a bit of alcohol and I'm good to go for dozens of prints.

Thank you Michael. I actually used the tape to adhere one to my Onyx plate and it is working great. Thanks to all the info you provided.

Lightpath · Post by **Lightpath** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:44 am

I wet sanded, very lightly as you say, because I figured the idea wasn't to grind down the surface but to just give it a little scuff. The 2000 grit worked beautifully and left a very nice matte finish. I used a sanding block I had hanging around for body work just to make sure I was "reasonably" flat with the sanding. Today I'll give the problem part a go and see if I get good stiction without glue. Thanks Mhackney!

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:57 am

I use the matte side up on the PEI as I prefer the matte finish it leaves on the part. I forgot to mention that and yes, the sanding will leave a matte finish.

I've been using the paper folded 3 times for months with no problems dishing the PEI. A sanding block is a great idea though.

cheers,
Michael

Lightpath · Post by **Lightpath** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:18 am

Latest test didn't go so well- After sanding lightly and heating the bed to 65 degrees (tested by a handheld digital thermometer "gun") the part curled pretty badly. The room my printer is in is quite cool, with a fair bit of cross breeze. It's possible that the parts are becoming so cool in the upper layers that there is enough warping pressure to unstick the part. I'm going to try making a cheap enclosure, and see if that helps.

Any thoughts on if higher, or lower, bed temps will make a difference?

mhackney · Post by **mhackney** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:33 am

This is very odd. My machine sits in front of a large window and during the winter it was quite cold around it.

Ah, I looked back, you are printing with ABS! Yes, much higher temp on the bed. I print at 80°C for ABS and 55° for PLA on PEI. Try raising the temperature, it really makes a big difference with PEI.

Lightpath · Post by **Lightpath** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:33 am

Ok, I'm going to give it a go this morning, I'll post my findings. Thanks!

Lightpath · Post by **Lightpath** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:39 am

OP SUCCESS!!!!!!!!

Ok, with my super-thick pei plate (see what I did there?) and .25" aluminum heat spreader, and boro glass between them, I need to get my bed to 100 degrees to heat the surface to around 80 degrees. I have a 24v power supply feeding the bed so that doesn't actually take an unreasonable amount of time.

Here is what I was printing: http://forum.seemecnc.com/viewtopic.php ... ble#p41571

I did the first run after a couple of failed attempts the other day, and had done no surface prep. It printed beautifully. I then ran the job a second time immediately after, with no surface prep, and it stuck perfectly. I finally feel like I have my printer dialed in!

Now to take it apart and install those adjustable belt tensioners, and the Astrosyn motor dampeners, and dial it in again. Practice makes perfect.

Thank you. Seriously. Thank you.

Renha · Post by **Renha** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:40 am

how fast did you get PEI sheet from Amazon? I am waiting a lot of time, and it isn't even shipped

Lightpath · Post by **Lightpath** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:18 am

Personally it came quickly, but I also ordered a sheet that was way too thick so they may not be in as high a demand as the thinner sheets.

bvandiepenbos · Post by **bvandiepenbos** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 1:19 pm

I use 90c with PEI and ABS, sticks well.

Post by **Eaglezsoar** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:55 pm

Lightpath wrote:Personally it came quickly, but I also ordered a sheet that was way too thick so they may not be in as high a demand as the thinner sheets.

How thick was the sheet that you ordered?

Welcome to the SeeMeCNC Community

PEI print bed surface experiments

Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Re: PEI print bed surface experiments