Rostock V2 - Dual v6 E3D's

[artexmg]

Work in progress... I have no idea if this is going to work, but my V6's are on their way, so I need to get this finished! One of the hotends will be height adjustable by a couple of millimeters (hopefully).

Lots to redesign / re-do, and lots more to do, but this is the gist.

Very nice indeed!

I agree with McSlappy about using 1 single fan. I had printed and used all three known (by me at least) dual mounts for E3D V5. Among them, dpmacri's version (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:217662) sports a single fan. It works very well, not over-heating problems at all.

This is my print

Dual_E3D_Mount_for_Rostock_MAX_by_artexmg_-_Thingiverse.png

Wow, glad someone has working proof on that. What size is that fan?

This is the E3D stock fan; it looks bigger just because it is close

[artexmg]

Thanks. I was thinking about going with a printed fan shroud, that would give a me a way to also attach a layer fan, as I'd be able to design the layer fan into the sides of the shroud, but still thinking about it. I keep changing the design, but the one I have now seems like it's going to work best for making small adjustments. Also, the left side of the lower part is going to be filled in, that indent / degrade is unnecessary and will just make it more difficult to print, it was just done during the initial sketching.

You mean something like my design?

I liked the idea of not using screws to fix the fans.

I started working on this, but the found lorenolepi (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:219945) and dpmacri (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:217662), Bubbasnow (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:278076) versions, so I stopped right there

The shrouds are for small, 5mmx5mm fan, so the total volume was smaller than with stock fans.

Just disregard the rendering in (I think) was aluminum.

[atoff]

Interesting, interesting... so from what I can tell it splits the airflow rather than dedicate a fan for the layers? The only problem I see is that you wouldn't be able to disable it for ABS or similar filaments. I had a different design in mind that would basically attach a blower fan to the side.

I'm nearly done with this thing... the only problem, and I guess it's not really a "problem," is that I have to increase the thickness of that top section in order to fit captive nuts. Otherwise, it's going to have huge overhangs that would be difficult to print. So, just need to do that and make some holes for the screws.

The one nozzle is going to be height adjustable, 1mm up, and a couple of mm's down. 1mm is plenty I think.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/gea8hAh.jpg[/img]

[artexmg]

Interesting, interesting... so from what I can tell it splits the airflow rather than dedicate a fan for the layers? The only problem I see is that you wouldn't be able to disable it for ABS or similar filaments. I had a different design in mind that would basically attach a blower fan to the side.

I'm nearly done with this thing... the only problem, and I guess it's not really a "problem," is that I have to increase the thickness of that top section in order to fit captive nuts. Otherwise, it's going to have huge overhangs that would be difficult to print. So, just need to do that and make some holes for the screws.

The one nozzle is going to be height adjustable, 1mm up, and a couple of mm's down. 1mm is plenty I think.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/gea8hAh.jpg[/img]

Well, actually both fans are for the heatsinks only. The intention is to slide the fans into the "sleeves".

For the layers I am designing (some day I will finish it ) a squirrel cage blower attached not to the end effector, but to the top of the printer; then, conduct the airflow trhough a tube and distribute it at the nozzle level. In a way, mimicking the idea of a Bowen extruder by separating the device in two parts, reducing mass. Something similar to what is in the picture.
No my original idea, though.

I guess that, stretching the idea further, it would be possible to have only one squirrel fan and a mechanism to divert the airflow to heatsink and layers, and the option to block the flow to the layer, for ABS. I need vacations to start designing !

[atoff]

Actually yeah, that might work, with one squirrel fan directing airflow through hoses. May reduce weight a smidge too.

After I finish this main part up, I'm going to play around with a fan shroud and layer fan. Definitely need to incorporate a layer fan. The heater cooling fans are not so much a priority for me, since the nice included moulded fan shrouds already fit, but since I'll be printing a lot of PLA, need that layer fan.

[artexmg]

Actually yeah, that might work, with one squirrel fan directing airflow through hoses. May reduce weight a smidge too.

After I finish this main part up, I'm going to play around with a fan shroud and layer fan. Definitely need to incorporate a layer fan. The heater cooling fans are not so much a priority for me, since the nice included moulded fan shrouds already fit, but since I'll be printing a lot of PLA, need that layer fan.

I am really looking forward to use the single hotend leveling mechanism, it would be of enormous help! and yes, 1 mm should be enough.

Cheers!

[atoff]

Okay, I'm stuck. I'm in the middle of creating the layer fan. I've completely redesigned the layer fan from the original http://repables.com/r/212/. I used it as a reference and started modeling it that way, but I have something different in mind, and my Solidworks skills are lacking, so I can't figure out how to make it happen. Been trying to rework it all day without luck. Here's what I have:

[img]http://i.imgur.com/uFo6eJ5.jpg[/img]

But what I want is for it to twist, such that the top of the fan shroud (the topmost part where the fan sits) meets the bottom of the tab for the original fan mount on the effector.

I pretty much want the whole body to twist like this:

[img]http://i.imgur.com/Ct9C85M.jpg[/img]

I actually had a different design in my head, but over and over I just couldn't make it reality, so I stuck with this one, though, I still can't make the whole body twist. I tried starting from scratch and using sweeps, but it just wasn't come out right. I guess the problem is with the fact that it has to rise as well as sweep, and it just aint happening.

I guess I want the top view to be something like this:

[img]http://i.imgur.com/NVaRE7s.jpg[/img]

[atoff]

Well, I've finished the design of the mount, but I'm having a real issue lining up the hotend, bottom section, and top section together. They all fit on their own, but once I put it all together, it's a no go. It has to do with the shrinkage. I've printed about 5 revisions after playing with dimensions and such, but I'm still having issues. Tomorrow I'm going to try moving one of the mounting holes slightly lower, hopefully that'll do it. But it seems like the adjustment's going to work just fine once I can get it all fitted. It'll require 3x M3 screws, I think 10mm will work. I have only 6mm and 20mm, the 6mm's are too short, the 20 way too long. It'll also require 3x M3 nuts, 3x M3 lock nuts, 3x M3 ~12mm to mount to the effector.

End product:

[img]http://i.imgur.com/P8O8sa2.jpg[/img]

I'll be posting the STL's once I get the measurements down, but I'm not sure which to post, as I'm sure everyone's going to have varying degrees of shrinkage.

I'm wondering if it's okay to print this in PLA. It SHOULDN'T really be in contact with heat right?

Still going to work on the layer fan... been learning a bit more of Solidworks. <3 Lofted Boss / Bass.
I've also picked 60mm angel eyes, so I'll be creating a mount for that as well.

[atoff]

Okay, this thing's driving me nuts... everything lines up perfectly in Solidworks. I've gotten it semi-close to working, but print after print, there's always something that's off. I've re-checked my work in Solidworks dozens of times, ran interference detection as well to make double sure.

A bunch of fails.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/NQbipIV.jpg[/img]

I'm about to give up and go with a basic non-adjustable mount. Does anyone want to take a stab at it??

AllParts.STL

(284.65 KiB) Downloaded 572 times

[artexmg]

Okay, this thing's driving me nuts... everything lines up perfectly in Solidworks. I've gotten it semi-close to working, but print after print, there's always something that's off. I've re-checked my work in Solidworks dozens of times, ran interference detection as well to make double sure.

A bunch of fails.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/NQbipIV.jpg[/img]

I'm about to give up and go with a basic non-adjustable mount. Does anyone want to take a stab at it??

AllParts.STL

Sure I will, just need to have some free time, maybe this weekend. For sure, until next week (:-() .

Silly question, but, do you have your printer calibrated in X, Y and Z? If it is only shrinkage, (I am not an expert, so, just assuming), the way to adjust it would be by scaling up a little at printing time, I would start at 1%.

Anyway, I will give it a try.

[atoff]

Thank. Yeah, I'm not sure if it's just shrinkage. I've scaled up on some attempts, I'm really not sure what the issue is... I think I've just made so many changes to the parts that at this point, anything could be off, though it still looks perfect in Solidworks. The last attempt, the two holes on the top piece were off by 2mm. When I'd tried with 2 adjustment screws, it worked great, but I decided to add the third back in for stability. With 2 it would wiggly very slightly, with 3, it's solid. I'm very close to abandoning it though, may just post the Solidworks or STEP files for someone else to play with, though it doesn't really look like there's much interest in it.

[artexmg]

Thank. Yeah, I'm not sure if it's just shrinkage. I've scaled up on some attempts, I'm really not sure what the issue is... I think I've just made so many changes to the parts that at this point, anything could be off, though it still looks perfect in Solidworks. The last attempt, the two holes on the top piece were off by 2mm. When I'd tried with 2 adjustment screws, it worked great, but I decided to add the third back in for stability. With 2 it would wiggly very slightly, with 3, it's solid. I'm very close to abandoning it though, may just post the Solidworks or STEP files for someone else to play with, though it doesn't really look like there's much interest in it.

I believe you're making a great job, and you're going in the right direction.

I can bet you that, as E3D V6 becomes mainstream, if your model is capable to provide that 1mm to adjust height, it would be the one to go when double extruder. The other three that are over there (that I know, at lesat), are great, but that the effort it takes to level both nozzles is, sometimes, just discouraging.

My limited knowledge in 3D modeling is reduced to Autodesk Fusion; no idea at all how to do thinks in SolidWorks

[atoff]

Thanks, really appreciate the encouragement. I have pretty limited experience in Solidworks, just learning as I go, so it becomes quite frustrating, as I have it all in my head, but takes me days to make it happen. Maybe tomorrow I'll swap out this awful ABS with PLA, just to continue the testing. The smell is getting to me. I'll print with very little infill to speed it up, just to get an idea of fit.

[artexmg]

Thanks, really appreciate the encouragement. I have pretty limited experience in Solidworks, just learning as I go, so it becomes quite frustrating, as I have it all in my head, but takes me days to make it happen. Maybe tomorrow I'll swap out this awful ABS with PLA, just to continue the testing. The smell is getting to me. I'll print with very little infill to speed it up, just to get an idea of fit.

Yes, I would change to PLA, besides you will limit the shrinkage factor, you will stop the smell thing. It is annoying to me too.

Actually I believe that I had developed an allergy to ABS: as soon as I start breathing it, I feel tickles on my throat .

I just started using a mask, only when printing ABS (haha, I look funny).

[atoff]

Just wanted to give a quick update. I did switch to PLA today. I made a slight adjustment to the model... apparently the holes were off 1mm on both of the lower part. Though, again, in SW it looks perfect. In any case, everything fit just fine once printed in PLA with the new adjustment. I'd still like to create the final part in ABS, so I'll have to give in and switch back to ABS tomorrow and try again.

I wouldn't print that STL I uploaded, it'll definitely be misaligned, sorry about that. I'll get a new up one hopefully tomorrow.

[artexmg]

Just wanted to give a quick update. I did switch to PLA today. I made a slight adjustment to the model... apparently the holes were off 1mm on both of the lower part. Though, again, in SW it looks perfect. In any case, everything fit just fine once printed in PLA with the new adjustment. I'd still like to create the final part in ABS, so I'll have to give in and switch back to ABS tomorrow and try again.

I wouldn't print that STL I uploaded, it'll definitely be misaligned, sorry about that. I'll get a new up one hopefully tomorrow.

Great news, I just got a msg from filastruder that my two V6 were shipped, so, I think will be ready when you come with the updated design!

Thanks for getting going!

[atoff]

Awesome... I hope it doesn't disappoint. I'm anticipating the need for revisions! lol

I still have to wait for my EZStruder to come in... I did end up ordering one, rather than making one, for several reasons. SeeME's shipping is pretty slow though. Ordered Friday a little after 1pm, and it was just shipped out today. Looks like that'll come in on Monday, which I suppose is okay, since I have a ton of work left to do in preparation.

[Catfang]

I also have two v6s showing up next week, and am also interested in dual printing with them. I'll be watching this thread closely!

>^,,^<

[atoff]

Still working on this... yesterday I printed out the 3 pieces in ABS, and they all fit. I haven't tried mounting it yet, as I'm trying to print everything I can before I do so. I also just modeled out a fan shroud, I want to build a layer fan into it... but I'm wondering, is it a bit much? It looks huge. These are based on the fans that came with the E3D's. I could go with one fan, but I don't know if one fan would be sufficient when ramping up temps for something like PC.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/dyFBhE7.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/m7Ry0dB.jpg[/img]

[MDMD]

Any updates to this? I may attempt something similar in the future.

[atoff]

The parts are pretty much finished, I've already printed them out, I just haven't been able to test mount it, since I've needed to print a few more things for it. I'm running the wiring tomorrow, so hopefully I'll be able to test it all in the next couple of days.

[atoff]

Just posted the STL's if you guys are still in need: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:373772

[atoff]

I am having such a difficult time trying to calibrate bed level. Every change I make differs when I switch between extruders. I'll lower the nozzle for ext1, then switch to ext2 to make sure they're both at the same height (manually adjust height), but when I switch back to ext1, it's now off from what it initially was. Then when I change position to calibrate a second point, the nozzles are very far off from being equal height.

[atoff]

I'm seriously about to abandon this dual hotend setup. I can't for the life of me calibrate this. Is there a trick to it, or some way that works best to calibrating dual hotends? Every time i level one, the other's off. I switch from Ext0 to Ext1 to calibrate Ex1, then when that's level, I switch back to Ext0, and now THAT'S off. Sooo aggravating!! Then I'll go to another calibration point, Ext0 will be jammed into the bed, while Ext1 will hover miles above. It's impossible to level this thing, how are you guys achieving it?

[Polygonhell]

This is why solutions like the kraken are compelling, you can level,one head then just mechanically place the other at the same height.
I know a couple of people who've gone dual head and ended up removing one, because it wasn't worth the hassle.
However the offsets should be consistent across the bed if the printer is correctly calibrated.