Fan noise

[jrosennc]

When starting from cold the blower fan makes a lot of noise (the fan that cools the feeder not the layer fan).
It starts of make some buzzing noises almost like it's hitting something then as it gets faster it starts to make some sinusoidal noise patters (about 10 sec in) and then it goes quite and runs normally (about 30 sec in).

Link to .wav file (tried uloading but it didn't like .wav files):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8kbZ9 ... sp=sharing

[nitewatchman]

Bad Bearings, Death Bed Fan - expected lifespan between 1hr and years.

Good plan is to replace with a good quality Ball Bearing Fan.

Best plan, replace with a Noctua fan, it's lifespan is longer than yours.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009NQ ... UTF8&psc=1

[jrosennc]

I don't mind upgrading to a better fan but the printer is less than 1 month old.
Shouldn't I expect it to last longer than that?

[jdurand]

Fans, like power supplies, are now made for the mass market and have what we used to call a "tail light warranty". It's warranted to work until they see you leave the parking lot of the store.

All of these carry warranties, hardly anyone holds the manufacturers to them. Bad items just get tossed and replaced. They count on this.

I just held a drain cleaner company to their warranty, took them 3 months to send me $7.

[RocketMagnet]

Just been through the same process though my original Peek fan only lasted a week or so, I then tried a couple of other makes but they both failed pretty quickly.
I also replaced the internal Rambo Board fan with a 40mm Noctua as it was also noisy. Golden rule: if a bearing is audibly Noisy.. replace it it's knackered, adding oil/grease makes it quiet for a bit but the damage is already done...

It's a 25mm fan for th3e peek cooler and Noctua don't make fans <40mm AFAIK so I personally ended up making up a to new adaptor plate and modified fan mount to allow me to use a Noctua 40mm. Nowhere near as elegant as the SeeMeCNC 25mm design but it works and Noctua fans have a reputation for reliability (6 Year Warranty). Yeah your "ducting" a standard fan which doesn't deal with backpressure too well but it's still more than enough and that's all you need for your peek (Enough airflow reliably).
Good thing also is its mounted on the rubber grommets and I can't feel any vibration from the Noctua.. done a few 10 hours prints at 233 DegC Nozzle and it was excellent, so for me reliability was the driver, that fan failing could melt the peek heat break? and it was playing on my mind.. so much so I mounted a mini Atom smoke detector ...

You can see here towards the bottom how I personally mounted a 40mm Noctua for peek cooling including a modified adaptor plate.. All in ABS btw.
http://forum.seemecnc.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=6679
Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:03 pm

Sure someone will have a better solution than mine but it certainly works for me... I did try direct mounting a 40mm with a modified adaptor plate but the arms interfere with the fan at the extremes so ended up ducting it. Was actually a fun project and enjoyed the tinkering... only issue is it's more fiddly undoing the Bowden tube with the fan there but still easy enough.

[nitewatchman]

Bad Bearings, Death Bed Fan - expected lifespan between 1hr and years.

Good plan is to replace with a good quality Ball Bearing Fan.

Best plan, replace with a Noctua fan, it's lifespan is longer than yours.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009NQ ... UTF8&psc=1

My PEEK lasted a week, my Rambo fan lasted about a month.

[jrosennc]

Any recommendations for a duct to use with the 40mm Noctua?

[BenTheRighteous]

Yeah my PEEK fan didn't last long at all either. I've had the printer for about 2 months and I replaced the PEEK fan already.

My RAMBo fan is making noise now too so it's probably on the way out - but I recently discovered it was being jammed up by some wires anyway so that one might be my fault.

[Mac The Knife]

I found this one,,,, I have no idea if it works. http://repables.com/r/99/

[jrosennc]

Will something designed for Rostock MAX fit an Orion?

[Mac The Knife]

I believe it uses the same effector plate and hotend, only the arms are different so it should work.

[RocketMagnet]

I tried it on an Orion and Even with a cut down Adaptor Plate I couldn't get a Noctua to fit directly.
You can see the Fan is pressed up directly against the metal stand offs and my printed top adaptor plate is cut back as far as it will go
but you can see that the arms will catch the Fan tops at the outer limits of the print area.

Trying to mount a 40mm Noctua Fan to an Orion Delta Peek

So I ended up doing this in ABS (3X Printed Washers, 1X Printed Modified Adaptor Plate, 1X 40mm Fan Ducting, 1X Printed Fan Grille Cover)

Parts needed

Ducted 40mm Fan

Fan Grille needed to protect the blades when you change filament

Back of Ducting and modified printed adaptor plate

Mid Print of my Spare:

1/2 way through print of my Spare

My first Prototype was a tad too big and thick walled:

First go at it

There is an STL file for something similar and simpler with no need to do a new adaptor plate in this thread http://forum.seemecnc.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5851
If you really want I can send you my STL Files for you to have a look at.. they are functional not elegant tho

[jrosennc]

I found MyPeekFanMod.stl in this thread:
http://forum.seemecnc.com/viewtopic.php ... mod#p45675

Printing now (in t-glase) after having reassembled my printer and re-calibrated...

[RocketMagnet]

Cool would like to see the finished article... My attempt was an effort to minimise the back pressure by making it was wide as possible
but yeah it's probably serious overkill If you mount on the rubber grommets you get with the Noctua fan you'll get no discernible fan vibrations
even at max speed by not fitting the speed reducer cable you get in the box with the Fan.

[jrosennc]

Well I haven't tried mounting the thing but just a quick look and I think this whole
endeavor is going to be a waste. I just don't see how there's going to be any room for
a 40mm fan given the limited clearance when the hot end is at the outer limits of
it's print area.

As for the print, it looked ok until I had to start pulling out support material and then
things went south pretty quickly. There are bits and pieces I can't really get to inside
(which is bad if they start working their way loose one day during a print) and during
the process I cracked some places (like the box around the fan). The cracking is probably
ok and it maybe some spare support material here and there might also be ok.
But not being able to print because it impedes the arms is a bit of a non-starter

Here's with the support material (looks a bit like a thrown):

Before removing support material

Here's after removing support material (as much as I could):

After removing support material

And here's why I don't think it will ever fit (but I'll try). It's hard to see but I've
turned the duct upside down to show where the fan box would align. You can see
that the bump on the back that allows air to flow from top to bottom will likely
hit the supports:

Bump

[RocketMagnet]

Yeah it's why I adapted the Adaptor plate to give more room. Still it's very tight at the extremes and even with the adaptor plate I'd say I was only safe to about 70mm radius. But there is scope to reduce the silhouette of the top more bulbous section the few mm it would take to clear at 75mm radius.

Very tight indeed but can be cut in further and made less bulbous to give even more room

So far I never print anything at such extremes, if I was id stick in a 25mm for that job.. When you add some JST connectors changing over is a 30 second job.
You can see below there is still more scope to cut in further and give more room, but it will make changing filaments harder.

You can see how the adaptor plate is cut back.. standard fan in place

So yes not perfect currently but definitely scope for improvement.. must just be more room on a MaxV2.

[jrosennc]

hmmm... All this just to get a reliable fan.
If I print off another adapter plate with a cutout that allows me to slide out
the existing fan do you think I could design an insert which inserts into that
same fan slot but then towers up to fit the 40x10 fan?

I cant tell from your pics how much room there might be relative to the feed tube.

btw, thanks for your pics and thoughts!

[RocketMagnet]

Totally agree a reliable 25mm fan would be the ideal solution but I've not found one yet so making do.

I considered a Slot design but decided against it as it ultimately takes up ducting room volume..

Yes your correct there isn't much room between the Fan and the Bowden Feed Tube so unlikely to be able to move it in any further comfortably so that leaves
reducing the profile of the top bulb.. plenty of scope for that but it will reduce air flow rate. So it's doable IMO I've just not got there yet.

It clears the Bowden tube ok

Just to be clear my fan duct is very different to the one you've printed out.. they look the same but they aren't. the whole top section the fan attaches to is moved in closer to the Bowden tube to give more room. I'll have a look this week and see if I can make it better. ill reduce wall thickness (its really thick btw) and reduce the size of the top of the ducting to give more room.

[jrosennc]

I played with some prototype shapes. From what I can tell, assuming you want maximum travel then the only way to get air from above to below without significantly raising the fan above the feed tube is through a very narrow triangle.
Here's a couple pics from an openscad model.

Here's the triangle on the back that stays within the arms at either extreme:

back showing triangle

back.png (6.98 KiB) Viewed 16214 times

Fan would go up top. There could be some space between the face of the fan and the back of the top cavity but ultimately there is only a small triangle through which air can flow:

side view showing fan placement

fan placement.png (7.04 KiB) Viewed 16214 times

Air going through the triangle would pass down to the cavity around the hot end (shown as a box cuz I'm not that good at openscad):

front view

front.png (4.74 KiB) Viewed 16214 times

I appreciate your time and effort but I can't ask you in good faith to spend time on tweaking your model, at least not for me.
I'm probably just going to order some replacements for the original fan and chalk up all the time spent as education.
I learn a *lot* from my failures, more than I care to admit.

[RocketMagnet]

Yeah totally agree with you on everything an yes agree 25mm is the best way to go if you can find a good enough fan. Please share any make and model you find.
I've tried Stock Fan, A Sunon and another make I cant remember as I've thrown it out... but it wasn't a cheap one at about £10 IIRC.
I've got 1X Sunon left that is still working, I damaged the wires on it but I've go it fixed but little confidence in it TBH.

Yes it wont fit as you point out and it's why I never even tried the original file on my Orion and decided I needed to mod the Adaptor Plate
you can see the differences below:

side on- smaller profile

Front view - made tller to clear the adaptor plate retaining bolt

Adaptor Plates overlayed you can see how much I cut away to make room for the ducting

I personally had some fun as I've got no real modelling experience so it's been a good learning experience. If you don't try you wont know and learn IMO.
I started with the original SeeMeCNC 25mm Fan Shroud and modified that.. I do notice there is a difference in the 25mm part size compared to the one
on mine? mine is a tad smaller?.. it fits ok though and is definitely the SeeMeCNC file.

Also your heater Crimps have Kapton tape on them and on my Orion they are bare, so wondering if I should get some & cover them up myself?

[jrosennc]

I ordered a sunon "maglev", well see how that goes. Ill report back after ive used it.

Your aligning the parts up like that in your post was very helpful to understand the difference, thanks!

For the kapton tape, if thats what it is, it came that way. i was wondering if thats what it was.

btw... if you dont mind me asking, what do you use to create models and where did you get the original adapter plate model?

[RocketMagnet]

I'm on my Second Sunon Maglev, supposed to be good fans but my first one died (I bought 2 so I had a spare), I think I possibly sucked in some plastic thread so I added a tiny grill to the normal SeeMeCNC fan mount. The second one had an issue with the live wire.. maybe I nipped it not sure but I had to cut a little bit out and re-solder it.

anyway Fan & Modded SeeMeCNC peek fan mount (simply added a grid).

Fan

Grid Guard

All the Orion files are here and in parent Directories of this link (found from the Downloads section of the SeeMeCNC website):
https://github.com/seemecnc/Orion_Delta ... r/CAD/IGES

They are in IGES Format and It was a bit of a kerfuffle getting them into STL format, I was copying all the text from the RAW tab of the file in question to the clipboard then pasting into a txt file and renaming the file *.IGS then opening it in Autodesk123D or Tinkercad and saving out as an STL. IIRC its File 83934 Hot end Adaptor.. but it's different to the one on yours and my machine (its got holes for multiple hot ends and the cable tie position was different... I used that as a base.. filled the extra holes and moved the cable tie position to match the stock setup on my orion.

hotendadaptor_baseline.stl

My Stock HEA

(42.07 KiB) Downloaded 264 times

I've just tested the printer with a 150mm Diameter Template and its two tiny areas at 10 and 2 o'clock where it just and so catches so im sure I can sort it.

The pics above comparing were in Repetier (I've tried Mattercontrol to try the auto bed levelling feature but it's not worth it just for that and Repetier is far better for me, it all just makes more sense to me somehow).

Erm as for modelling I'm a noob so mainly use 123D, TinkerCad and Freecad. Of the Three Tinkercad is really easy for basic stuff and much easier if you don't know what your end design is going to be, if find it easy to get all my measurements correct in Tinkercad.. its very basic and unreliable though as its cloud based rubbish and not client ;(. 123D I find very clunky and unintuitive and hard to do simple stuff accurately with limited knowledge. Freecad I found a bit more logical but will take some time.