PEI print bed surface experiments

[mhackney]

JFettig, you are having trouble removing parts from PEI? ABS or PLA? Probably ABS if you have a 105° bed! Yes, you will find with a heat dissipator that the bed temp can be much lower since it is evenly heated. However, many SS alloys are NOT GOOD thermal conductors. A sheet of aluminum would be much better. Most part just pop off for me, but the occasional stuck part comes off with one of my removal spatulas and a sharp rap from a small hammer or pair of pliers.

Screen Shot 2014-12-21 at 6.11.43 PM.png (187.87 KiB) Viewed 15596 times

[JFettig]

You're correct, ABS.

The spring steel backer idea would skip the glass plate - it would be way better conductor than glass! Heck, it would probably conduct better skipping a thermal barrier - heater - aluminum - glass - tape - PEI. go direct, heater - spring steel - tape - PEI.

[BONE]

Where you get those tiny spatulas?

[mhackney]

I bought about 500 of them and had intended to sell them when I was doing the aluminum heat dissipators last year. I'll bring some to the BBand3D meeting in January.

[BONE]

I considered attaching the PEI to the Copper also. After a few Nano seconds, the thought popped into my head that if the print were stuck to the PEI as well as I expected the force to pop the print loose might be enough to twist or warp the copper, especially if it were thin. Given this I decided to attach the PEI to the Borosilicate glass and run the copper underneath the glass in direct contact with the heated bed. Just be sure to place a strip of Kapton tape over the several through plated holes in the bed surface.

But wouldn't the act of gluing the copper plate between the glass and the PEI sheet strength the copper. You making a laminate, just like the wood pieces that the printer are made out of. The skin on the wood helps strength it. Looking at the tech sheet for the 468MP, the hold should 60-80 oz/in. The copper will be securely held to the glass plate.

I'm also build a plate for the TAZ 4, where the glass has the heating element already glued to the one side. So I want to glue the copper down first, then the PEI on top of that. That's my plan at least.

[mhackney]

Bone, my stack looks like this (top down)

PEI
3M tape
Borosilicate glass

.125" aluminum plate
Onyx


That way anything I put on the bed has the benefit of the aluminum dissipator. The glass/PEI can be removed or flipped over. Careful with attaching a heating element directly to glass - check my build thread for the reason! Even low thermal expansion borosilicate will crack if there is a thermal stressor - like a heating element localized on a small area of the glass. It makes a marvelous POP. Heating rate has a lot to do with it too. Again, putting the heat dissipator on the heating element evens out the heat before it gets to the glass or other print surface.

cheers,
Michael

[nitewatchman]

Mine is stacked that way as well.

[BONE]

The TAZ 4 heatbed comes with the heating element glued to it. The heating element is inside a high temp silicone shell that is glued to the bottom side of the glass. I'm looking to put something on the top of the glass to help even out the heat and improve the print adhesion. I was looking to do the same with the MAX. I getting an extra piece of glass for the MAX and I'm experimenting with the extra print bed at work for the TAZ, so I might experiment a little. I'm wonder how stiff and flat a copper/PEI laminate would lay top of the glass or event heat bed secured with binder clips.

[BONE]

Has anyone tried this print bed? Somone over on the TAZ forums mentioned and I remember see it before. It's kind of pricey, but just a little more then making a copper/PEI laminate.
http://www.adafruit.com/product/2132

Just received the PEI and copper sheets. The corners are a little banged up in the cooper sheet, which might be a problem for the TAZ, but just cut them for the MAX. Had a brief panic moment seeing the PEI sheet was green, but then picked at a corner to see that was indeed amber.

[mhackney]

Yes, I was given a few of these by the manufacturer to test. Many folks had reported excellent results with PLA but he wanted me to put it through the ringers with ABS. The parts I make require excellent stick and surface finish, here are some examples:

[img]http://mhackney.zenfolio.com/img/s7/v15 ... 2473-3.jpg[/img]


[img]http://mhackney.zenfolio.com/img/s5/v12 ... 0688-3.jpg[/img]

That black part is especially tricky to print reliable since there is not a lot of surface area and the "flower petal" corners are tricky. PrintInZ worked very well for these parts in both PLA and ABS. For large parts, it is convenient to remove the bed and flex it to remove the parts. I recommend it. My only caveat is, it does have a pronounced texture (fabric like) that leaves an imprint on your part. For printing the sorts of things most folks print this is absolutely no problem. The print surface side on my fly fishing reels and the little spools is exposed so I prefer something less textured. But, it does make for an interesting decorative effect. I know the manufacturer was planning or is making a 12" disk for the Rostock. I got one of these and it worked very well. I have it on the printer now in fact.

cheers,
Michael

[mhackney]

After months and literally 2500+ parts printed on the original PEI surface I am starting to get a few little divots in the center from overall aggressive part removal with a sharpened spatula. I've started offsetting my parts in KISSlicer so they are not always printed in the center. It think that is good practice in retrospect. But I wondered if I could remove the PEI and flip it over to use the other surface. Surprisingly, it was easy and didn't require new tape!

First I cleaned the exposed surface thoroughly with isopropyl alcohol. I also washed and dried my hands. Then, I started prying the PEI from the glass plate using 2 of my small spatulas (see post a few up from this one). It lifted pretty easily. Once I had about 1n inch lifted, I grabbed the PEI and curled it back over the glass to peal it off the tape. It comes off easily with a noise that sounds like you broke the glass! Once it was pealed off, make sure the exposed tape doesn't get dirt on it while you wash once again clean the original top surface (which will now be adhered to the tape). I then carefully positioned the PEI back onto the tape and used a J roller to flatten it down and adhere. I have an index mark on my PEI so I can align it with my Z tower and I maintained that. I put it back on the machine, brought the bed up to temperature and printed an 11" calibration layer. It was dead on all around, no need to recalibrate.

So this will double the life of the PEI.

Cheers,
Michael

[JFettig]

I decided to go against your recommendation and I plasma cut a 12" disk with a 1/2" hole, no extra warping CNC plasma cutter cut it out in about 2 seconds so not much additional heat went into it. I did some measuring and the temp seems pretty accurately but I'm only using a meat thermometer.

Before I installed this, I printed a part that was rather thin walled but really long and narrow, overnight print and it warped to the point that there was a section 1/2"x1/8" still stuck to the print bed... hopefully this takes care of my issues.

I have a number of dings in my PEI already from removing some really difficult to remove parts. Some parts come right off while some don't. I printed a part on a raft, had no issues pulling that off - raft was about 3x4" Part was 13" tall, 25 hour print. worked great!
Jon

[Rando]

(Ahh....finally account is active and I can reply!)

Hey all. I read this entire thread, yes all 23 pages. Thanks for the look back at the progression of trials and sometimes errors. I'm right there with you. Below is a (far too) long retelling of my tales of woe. To sum it up: if your PEI sheets make you wonder if they didn't ship you some other material, you might have molding-release remaining on the material. Well, at least that's what it seemed like.

As of today, I can report that I FINALLY am printing good ABS parts. It's been a strange and long road since late October. The first print was "okay" in the sense that it was small and seemed to stay together. And then I tried designing my own stuff. After all, that's why I got it. Failure, failure, failure. It's felt like every significant problem that people encountered, I came across too. Chief among them, of course: delamination at height, and bed adhesion.

So far I'd tried hairspray (no thanks, for lots of reasons including it reminds me of my long-ago-dead grandma, so that's weird), glue-stick (70% qualified success), and the green tape in 12" squares (great practice for squeegee skills!).

And then I stumbled on this thread, knowing that surely by now someone had figured this out. Okay, so miracle material, etc. I'm totally thinking this is an excellent thing. I didn't have the sourcing issues others (esp. internationally) have had. I got 4 pieces of the 1-foot square 30-mil sheets. Why four? 'Cause I always mess up the first time . And then it will typically take another one before I figure out what to never do, and then because that third one will last forever, and when I finally do need to replace it, it won't be available anymore. Been there too many times.

In addition to the nice amber-colored material, I got the 1/2" tape...except in my unknowningness, I got the 457 (50 micron) instead of the 458 (130 micron). Yeah, seriously. It's less than half the thickness, it was here, so I gave it a go.

With all the talk about copper heat spreaders and such, I snickered in my self-satisfaction that I had multiple tubes of something that would DEFINITELY improve the thermal coupling between glass bed and PEI sheet: heatsink compound. Not the epoxy, but the grease. I didn't seem to dissolve the adhesive, but it didn't adhere the PEI to the bed, so internal stresses made it bow creatively in the middle as it heated. Okay, so let's start simple 'cause that's going to be a mess to fix, and it does seem to stay flat enough at lower temps. So, I tried a couple HIPS and ABS prints, 0.35 nozzle, 0.2x thick. Let's just say that the only reason the threads fused together was because they just happened to be sitting in the right place. There was literally ZERO adhesion. Yes, lots of cleaning with acetone, alcohol, Windex and Dawn (not in that order, of course!).

The it hit me: ah, you dummy, you got the SMOOTH side up! Ewe....scraping all grease off? Ick. Sigh...okay....and 20 minutes and several solvent washings of the borosilicate-glass, and I was ready to go. But this time, let's skip the tape and goop and see if we can just get something...ANYTHING...to actually stick. Because let's face it: if I'm extruding a line that measures between 0.21 and 0.23 mm around the skirt first layer (for a setting of 0.22mm first-layer height), to me that's a flat-enough bed. And while the upper layers might pull off the lower layers, surely that first layer has to show SOME adhesion, right? I mean seriously...it was literally just SITTING on the bed surface. Grabbed a bunch of those spring-steel binder clips (who doesn't have hundreds of those sitting around?) and held down the PEI, smooth surface to the glass. That seemed like it would work well too, since the very slight "cupping" of the sheet was in that direction. Down it went and up went the bed temperature, and then the extruding....

And nothing. Nada, no adhesion at all. And let's be clear here: this whole mounting and reseating is done with 8-mill nitrile gloves, twice washed with dawn even before I start working with the materials. Everything got cleaned with soap-and-water, then acetone, then alcohol. This is some clean material when I'm done with it. And yet....nothing.

Okay, yes, the matte side is up now. Hmm....okay, fine, I'll go scratch it a little with some 1500-2000 grit (over the course of the thread that recommendation has "evolved" ). I have the MicroMesh sponges, so used the tan one first, their 2500. Which, given that there exists a chart on the package between their grits and standard grits, well, to me that means 2500 ain't 2500, right? Okay, so I'll go easy.

Nice quick rub, corner-to-corner to create a good diamond pattern and clean with acetone and alcohol, can barely see it. And.....nothing. Seriously. Nothing? Grrr. Argh.

Okay, so let's start eliminating things: I've been using first-use car-detailing wipes, Kimberly-Clark WyPall L-40's. Maybe they have some treatment on them to prevent scratching? Okay, go to known-clean microfiber. And....no change.

Fine....I'll tie the bed down fully with the tape. Sorry, Charlie, but you're first-sheet, I can't trust you're not somehow contaminated, so you get a permanent crease and trip to the garbage can . On to sheet two. Now you're starting to see why I bought four!

For the new sheet, I invested the 24 feet of 0.5" tape (Yeah, I got several rolls) with ~1mm spaces between then. Putting them right next to each other caused too much problems with the new layer sticking to the very edge of the previous strip. I was able to position it more easily when I intentionally did not let them touch. Then nice new cleaned sheet put down, roughed up, cleaned again, and onto the machine. There were definitely tiny air-bubbles, but the surface held great, even at 110C for a couple cycles.

Based on the thread, it's gonna be great....except it STILL didn't work. ZERO bed adhesion. Okay, check line heights. Perfect, spot on 220C head, 102C bed (measured, +/- 4-5C across pretty much the entire bed, even without a spreader) 0.35 nozzle, 0.22 line height, 0.25 base line width, 120% first-layer width, well-tuned feed rate, and slow linear rate of like 35 mm/s, sealed enclosure with top at 38C and bottom at 32C, so no drafts and good temsp. Even on the green stuff, with ABS juice (don't drink this at home!) and even the Purple Liberation Arm's glue sticks, there was at least SOME adhesion, even if in only a small area. This? Nothing. Measure the strands, and they were exact. Well okay, they DID vary by as much as 0.02mm, which really....that's close enough, right? I mean, flattening out that last tiny bit...that's a huge part of the first layer's job. If that doesn't go down smooth, often the part is doomed from over-extrusion anyway. But, I digress...still zero adhesion. Grrr...arrgh more. But, it's late and I should be in bed....

Then, late that night, it dawns on me. This is cast material, isn't it? They don't extrude it in those 30-mil sheets, and given the brittleness (at cutting), I'm pretty sure they don't skive it either. Which means that the moment before this stuff hardens, it's in what is effectively a "mold". And what do you do with molds? You coat them in mold-release compound, don't you? Yeah...and so it dawned on me. There might very well be "more than people who've been successful saw". Not defective, per se, but somehow mine were somewhere in the production run where they were liberally coated with the stuff.

Next morning I got out a magnifier, and looked closely at that textured side. Sure enough, the surface was clearly "buffered" (yeah, not the correct term) by some coating that made the texture itself very shiny and smooth. I could see "into" the texture. Whereas a good fine-tooth surface needed for adhesion shouldn't have a passivated (?) surface, it should have both the "coarse" rated set of scratches, but also many more "higher-frequency" smaller scratches. In short, the surface needed to have a more "milky" appearance, and less glossy. So out came the tan and black MicroMesh sanding sponges, and a little more pressure was there so I could see the diagonal pattern just slightly.

So then I did something I think I regret...maybe. I decided "oh yeah!?!?! This stuff thinks acetone is the worst I've got? Ha!" So downstairs to the bicycle-maintenance area for some destroys-literally-everything CRC brake cleaner. Mean nasty angry stuff. The can says it all: "cannot be made non-poisonous". Onto a cloth it goes, onto the bed surface. Wow...interesting...oh dear Lord what a smell! Note to self: completely cool bed first! Ventilation. Cannot be made non-poisonous. No, Really.

And then I started to notice a change. As I wiped with the brake cleaner, I was in horror: it made the surface look like I'd just sprayed WD-40 or some other light OIL on it. Oh no, did I just ruin sheet #2? Calm down...clean like normal...dawn, then acetone, then alcohol...it will all be okay. Say it again.....and breathe....

(Side note: when progressively sanding, I've noticed that the pitch-distribution of the scritch-scritch sound made by the sandpaper changes in a predictable way as the rated surface smoothness is approached. This is also true for light. A surface that is reflecting only a few wavelengths because the surface texture/irregularities/scratches only exists at a limited number of sizes/frequencies, will have more saturated individual colors. A surface with a wide-distribution of scratch sizes/frequencies will appear more "white" or milky. It's that quality of a surface being smoothed as opposed to already perfectly smooth that made me realize what was going on).

Sure enough, as the alcohol started to dry, a REAL surface started to show itself. The amber color came through, but there was this clearly toothed surface. Wow....it was flat, perfect, just begging to be printed on. So, I'll just warm up the bed and extruder....and whoa! What the heck? Oh lovely...something is attacking the adhesive and it's releasing the PEI sheet. Just where did I put the clips? So, what's odd is that either the alcohol, acetone or brake cleaner did it. They were all on cloths, none of them got to the edge. Oh, no...wait...remember that thing where the sheet got all transparent....I wonder if one of the gazillion "petroleum distillates" they had on the label made it through the plastic, or maybe the fumes were enough? In any event, of the 12" square, about 2" on each side, all around, had bowed up about 5mm. Don't care. Pin that thing down with the spring clips...the center's fine and still atched, and I want to see this thing work!

Yeah, so how did it go? PERFECTLY. No, seriously. I've had this printer since October 12th. Until yesterday morning, it has printed effectively zero good parts of my own design because of materials, profiles that squirt too much filament, but primarily because of insufficient bed adhesion and layer separation at height. One part of a product I hope to manufacture on a small scale is six inches tall, about 1/2" thick, and over a foot long (diagonally on the Taz4 square bed, duh!). I suffered mightily with making even test sections of it. Constantly battling bed adhesion and delamination issues. Just like so many before me.

But now, once I got the surface right, it's been dialed in perfect. Seriously. My first part was 165x175x220mm and it had never made it beyond 10mm tall before either peeling or breaking. This one was made completely perfectly with no surface globulation, no lift-off errors, no surface irregulatiries, thick and thin walls. Which is a good thing, because this darned 10-hour print is one piece of a 4-piece thing that I need precisely ONE of...starting this job 20 times to get it right was making me wonder if I shouldn't just machine the thing out of a block of Unobtainium. But that part finished perfectly. And the second part of that set is now printing...also with only one inconsequential think I didn't like.

Funny how sometimes when you're trying to dial in a new machine, and you don't quite know exactly where some painful problem is coming for. As you go through all the things that could be a problem, and successively eliminate each one, when you finally do get to the real source of the problem, so many other areas were upgraded and calibrated during the process that it's rock solid when the problem is finally found.

And for me, that is exactly what happened:
-- I thought it was bed leveling, so with a lot of skirts and caliper measurements, I got it dialed in to +/- 0.01mm.
-- I was in horror watching the nozzle thunk into other parts as it travelled: tell Slicr to stop that with some vertical lift
-- I watched as the first couple layers made a huge mess on the perimeters due to over-extrusion: fixed that, calibrated head.
-- Big part (165 x 175 x 220mm) in 0.35/0.22-0.25 takes way too long: switched to 0.5mm nozzle and 0.4mm width. Halved it.
-- first layer settings just plain wrong. fixed 'em.
-- X-axis co-linearity with bed was off slightly. fixed that
-- The heavily-nailed together 2x sheets of 5/8 CDX plywood underneath the printer apparently CAN bow when heated, leaving the rear pair of feet up in the air! D'oh. Replaced with more-proper butcher-block.
-- Drafts bad...build schweet enclosure while simultaneously taking over the guest-bedroom closet .
-- Heat good...trap heat and add active chamber warm-up.
-- Vibration damping good...be like the wind and accept all the energy using a vibration-isolation platform. Yeah, it made a HUGE difference in the quality of perimeters near sharp corners. The momentum of the moving head goes through the frame, into the platform and the foam underneath, so there's almost no energy sent into flexing the printer frame. I'll post some things about that.

So, once I finally go a good surface, with everything else having been checked multiple times and progressively dialed in, the prints are now picture perfect. Maybe I'll even post some . But now, up to check on the second print. 165x175x160mm this time, a hollow shroud.

Oh...and by the way, thanks go to whoever all wrote SCad. Loving that thing! I'm sort of a geometrical constructionist kinda-guy, after all

Cheers, hope the above all made sense. Thanks so much for the extensive history.

[Generic Default]

I read the entire 23 pages too, then I read another 23 pages-worth in your post!

Very detailed writeup there, nice job. My PEI sheet seemed to work fine on the first print because I started printing on the matte side AFTER I wiped it with acetone and isopropyl.
I'm now experimenting with a huge 14.375x0.375 circle of flat cast aluminum tooling plate and high temperature garolite for nylon. The PEI is great for PLA and ABS, but it is still possible to warp nylon with PEI. Additionally the new method of foam-brushing a solution of glue stick and hot water onto the bed helps a lot with nylon.

Just in the last couple of months I've been getting much better prints with less hassle, all because of this thread. Good job doing open source everyone!

[mhackney]

Very nice post Rando. Thanks for the contribution. I've been experimenting with the glossy side of the PEI the last week or so. It is a little more persnickety than the matt side - it is critical that it is completely degreased and clean. I use windex and spritz a bit on the plate and wipe off with a paper towel. Now I am getting perfect adhesion every time.

cheers,
Michael

[Rando]

I read the entire 23 pages too, then I read another 23 pages-worth in your post!

Very detailed writeup there, nice job. My PEI sheet seemed to work fine on the first print because I started printing on the matte side AFTER I wiped it with acetone and isopropyl.
I'm now experimenting with a huge 14.375x0.375 circle of flat cast aluminum tooling plate and high temperature garolite for nylon. The PEI is great for PLA and ABS, but it is still possible to warp nylon with PEI. Additionally the new method of foam-brushing a solution of glue stick and hot water onto the bed helps a lot with nylon.

Just in the last couple of months I've been getting much better prints with less hassle, all because of this thread. Good job doing open source everyone!

Thanks, woulda been nicer with pictures, but the shame and frustration made me take nooooo pictures of that ordeal! It's been so long with so many trials and tests where the "limits" of manufacturability were like 1/4 of the sizes my product needed. Brief moments of panic, yes, those were there . It DID, however, lead me to some amazing discoveries about making STRONG beams in this stuff. I'll post on it eventually, I promise, hopefully it's not a beginner's folly, right?

Oooh...the plate. Having a retail store of OnlineMetals and Metals Supermarket both within about 15 miles of me is total Nerdvana. I was seriously considering replacing that bowing plywood with a 3/8 sheet of that plate at the surface the printer rests on. Then I noticed it was 3 Benjamins (US$200-300 for you international folks). Umm.....so instead I cut up an old Ikea half-dinner-table-top in the butcher-block style that I got for $10 yeas ago. It'll have to do .

[mhackney]

I bought some MIC-6 5/16" plate 14" diameter for like $20 a piece. I think I mention the location in my build thread. Search the forums here with MIC6 or MIC-6 and you should find it.

EDIT: I found the source: http://www.sandsmachine.com/alumweb.htm

cheers,
Michael

[nitewatchman]

That's a great source for material. I can see using this for other things.

[Rando]

Ok, ABS sticks to PEI at 80°C fantastically. And, the matte surface of the PEI is transferred to the part so you can get a matte finish if you want!

Unfortunately, the spray adhesive I used lets go at 80°C so the parts are not flat. I've been looking for a better bonding solution. The guys on the delta printer google group use a 3M tape but it's hard to find in 12" x 12" and expensive. I'm leaning towards this Permatex spray gasket adhesive with copper. It is good to 280°C, has copper for better thermal conductivity and is cheap and readily available. Worth an experiment!

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!!! You have just made my day! Hell, my whole month! A solution to ABS curling. YOU'RE DA MAN!
My order is going in today for the PEI and I am going to use the gasket adhesive also. If you haven't noticed I usually stick with what you find out works. Why?
YOU DA MAN!

Just beware that this post was early in the multi-year thread. I think they decided the spray-on-gasket didn't hold, just a bit further in the thread. Are you having luck with it nonetheless? Additional options are always great.

[mhackney]

Rando, you are correct - the gasket adhesive was a failure but Eagalzsoar was actually talking about ABS adhesion to the PEI. That is still excellent!

[bvandiepenbos]

My ABS prints have suddenly started not sticking to the PEI, even after cleaning with MEK and then Alcohol.
A light dusting of Aquanet hairspray then it is fine, but I do not want that hassle and smell.

So what is the general consensus for proper PEI prep?
-vigorously scuff with super fine sandpaper or scotchbrite pad.
-clean with a strong solvent such as automotive Brake Cleen or MEK or acetone
-clean again with alcohol
-print


I am printing ABS with bed at 100c

Rather disappointing, because PEI was working wonderful.
Most of the time I just pop print off and go again, every once in a while clean with alcohol.
Come to think about it, I did clean with some commercial aerosol glass cleaner... maybe it leaves some anti-static/polish residue ?
I did not try Windex cause all I had was some silly scented stuff... "mountain fresh gnome farts", or something like that

[techstorage]

I am running out of glue sticks, so time to install this update.

I have a thin copper sheet .032", ULTEM PEI sheet .003" and 3m tape to make the sandwich on my Max v2 with an extra glass plate I purchased from Seemecnc.

Should I put any Kapton tape between the hotbed and copper sheet? I read in this post some also have attached the metal to the hotbed so it is fixed all the time. I am thinking of doing this with the copper on my printer also and don't want to short anything out for the hotbed.

Any advice would be great.

[mhackney]

Brian, I use 1500-2000 grit sandpaper to prepare the surface all the time. This does result in a matt finish on the part.

[nitewatchman]

I am running out of glue sticks, so time to install this update.

I have a thin copper sheet .032", ULTEM PEI sheet .003" and 3m tape to make the sandwich on my Max v2 with an extra glass plate I purchased from Seemecnc.

Should I put any Kapton tape between the hotbed and copper sheet? I read in this post some also have attached the metal to the hotbed so it is fixed all the time. I am thinking of doing this with the copper on my printer also and don't want to short anything out for the hotbed.

Any advice would be great.

In an abundance of caution, I applied Kapton Tape over the small Via Holes on the Hot Bed. I know that the Via's are coated and the chances of a short are remote BUT I put Kapton Tape over the Via Holes in the Hot Bed.

[nitewatchman]

My ABS prints have suddenly started not sticking to the PEI, even after cleaning with MEK and then Alcohol.
A light dusting of Aquanet hairspray then it is fine, but I do not want that hassle and smell.

So what is the general consensus for proper PEI prep?
-vigorously scuff with super fine sandpaper or scotchbrite pad.
-clean with a strong solvent such as automotive Brake Cleen or MEK or acetone
-clean again with alcohol
-print


I am printing ABS with bed at 100c

Rather disappointing, because PEI was working wonderful.
Most of the time I just pop print off and go again, every once in a while clean with alcohol.
Come to think about it, I did clean with some commercial aerosol glass cleaner... maybe it leaves some anti-static/polish residue ?
I did not try Windex cause all I had was some silly scented stuff... "mountain fresh gnome farts", or something like that

I have been struggling with just the opposite problem. My ABS parts have been stuck so tight that I could not get them off the PEI with damage.

After getting some advise from a member who I will not name but his initials are Michael Hackney, I have learned that the problem I was having has everything to do with the first layer. As I have gotten my bed and calibration flatter, I have tended to make the first layer thinner and really squished in. Now after some experimentation based on the advise, I have decided that the thin tight layer is almost impossible to remove. So I went to a thicker layer that was looser or more humped up and got no adhesion at all using the same temps.

So after playing with the ranges, I have settled on this which seems to compromise. Z=0 set on the surface, the nozzle tip is set using a 0.004" feeler gauge above the glass, the nozzle lowered an additional 0.1mm to -0.1 on the LCD display and Z-zero set there. I am printing at a 0.1mm layer height and the first layer is set to 0.22mm. Heated Bed temp is set to 75C, for large parts it is set to 85C. Parts now release with minimal effort and a slight amount of white stress area where it was attached.

I believe that given the other parameters level, cleanliness, and temperature are under control, the biggest factor concerning adhesion is the thickness and squishing of the first layer.