Making the Rostock Max quieter

[jesse]

Any ideas on how to make the Rostock Max quieter?

It seems like most of the noise is coming from the stepper motors and the extruder when it retracts quickly.

[aehM_Key]

You could try to mount the whole extruder with rubber.

For the other steppers you'll probably need some new axis, bearings and flexible couplings.

[Av8r RC]

My machine itself sounds fine, not that bad. But it's my extruder that's as noisy as a tin can half full of rocks on retracts, but continuous extrusion is fine. And it all comes from the first spur gear on the extruder. Even though its got that bearing thru it it wobbles around a lot.

[Flateric]

Just got my kit today so I have not experienced, well, anything with it yet.

But in the cnc machine automation world the stepping sound of the motors it usually isolated with a rubber isolator. I'll see if I can dig one up here. I have a few of them kicking around and upload a pic of it. It's not soft enough to affect precision or inconsistent positioning results because the rubber is fairly stiff. I'll get back to ya here in a bit.....

[Flateric]

Would this work in this application?

There are other types as well, but this is what I could find quickly.

Nema23 Stepper Isolator

[aehM_Key]

I think it will not work very well because in the Rostock the stepper is not only used to producd a momentum, but also to bear the pulley and tension the belt. The stepper will tilt and strange things will happen..

[theverant]

I don't find the steppers themselves to be producing that much noise - when one of the belts was rubbing against the extrusion, THAT was noisy. Keep an eye on the belts - they can slip to the side slowly and the noise likewise will slowly increase. I didn't even notice it until it was pretty bad, then I finally got sick of it and inspected, found the belt, fixed that and the machine was then almost silent in comparison.

[Flateric]

I think it will not work very well because in the Rostock the stepper is not only used to producd a momentum, but also to bear the pulley and tension the belt. The stepper will tilt and strange things will happen..

Trust me when I say that this mount will not allow for motor tilting of any type. I could stand on on side of this mount with almost no squish. I t is tuned specifically to the resonant frequency a stepper produces for each specific size stepper it is made for. The dampers were removed from a highly precise dental cnc milling application that claims accuracy down into the microns with very very high speeds. The belts were very tight. (cercon degudent mill)

It appears however, the steps may not be what the noise producer is judging by the post immediately following your initial post.

[aehM_Key]

I t is tuned specifically to the resonant frequency a stepper produces for each specific size stepper it is made for.

Fair enough. Such mounts were new to me. I thought it would either be to stiff to decouple or to soft to hold the tension. Still not 100% sure, if it would work

[Flateric]

Oh me either! LOL

I'll give it a test though here as I go and keep you updated.

That's what I love about these forums is the vast and diverse amount of different people from different areas all with new things to add and contribute. I suppose that is also what is so great about the opensource 3D printer scene overall really.

I hope that in the end I can add my own little bit to the progression of such a relatively new field.

[Flateric]

I've done a bunch more research and I am now convinced that these would benefit any 3D printer and mounting steppers to it.

I can only find 1 nema17 sized anti-vibration mount in my parts bin so this set me off on a internet quest to see where they can be sourced from.

They are not as well known as I had expected it seems. But the companies and industries that do use them generally employ their use for anything involving highly accurate positioning or placement operations. The use of the motor vibration damper (their official name) is even used for super smooth servo applications. Especially in the dental and medical equipment where accuracy is critical.

This cannot be a bad thing to add to a 3D printer clearly.

Here is a link with some information regarding them and they can also be purchased at the same link. I have used them personally on larger sized all aluminium and all steel CNC mill designs on up to nema34 sized motors. But only because I happened to have salvaged the damper from surplus equipment I had on hand and figured why not. So, just as a test I removed the damper from my CNC all aluminium moving gantry setup and the amount of noise and vibration difference is very substantial. Shockingly so actually. For a little part that does not really alter the final design by it's inclusion I will be including them in all my future stepper based creations.

http://www.astrosyn.com/section.php?xSec=44&xPage=1

[Eaglezsoar]

I've done a bunch more research and I am now convinced that these would benefit any 3D printer and mounting steppers to it.

I can only find 1 nema17 sized anti-vibration mount in my parts bin so this set me off on a internet quest to see where they can be sourced from.

They are not as well known as I had expected it seems. But the companies and industries that do use them generally employ their use for anything involving highly accurate positioning or placement operations. The use of the motor vibration damper (their official name) is even used for super smooth servo applications. Especially in the dental and medical equipment where accuracy is critical.

This cannot be a bad thing to add to a 3D printer clearly.

Here is a link with some information regarding them and they can also be purchased at the same link. I have used them personally on larger sized all aluminium and all steel CNC mill designs on up to nema34 sized motors. But only because I happened to have salvaged the damper from surplus equipment I had on hand and figured why not. So, just as a test I removed the damper from my CNC all aluminium moving gantry setup and the amount of noise and vibration difference is very substantial. Shockingly so actually. For a little part that does not really alter the final design by it's inclusion I will be including them in all my future stepper based creations.

http://www.astrosyn.com/section.php?xSec=44&xPage=1

They do not list the United States as a country they sell to. Something like this should probably be purchased by a group of forum members who are interested and bought in bulk, see if they will send that many to the United States and then redistributed to the interested parties. Perhaps Seemecnc.com would be interested in purchasing these in bulk. My other concern is the currency conversion can make these somewhat costly. From looking at the link you provided, it
appears that the mounting of the step motor is only to the damper so there are two screws holding the step motor in place, is this correct?

[theverant]

I think you might find a bigger noise drop by tuning the acceleration settings. With my machine, most of the noise is the motor singing, not from vibrations travelling through the machine. I think the motor noise I'm hearing is due to the constant speed changes. I know on the MBI Replicator it sounded very similar (but even louder I think) until I upgraded to Sailfish firmware with acceleration and now that machine is almost silent. I'm not sure how acceleration works in the Marlin or Repetier firmwares - maybe something to look into?

I'm planning to put an enclosure around my printer, anyway, so I doubt I'll hear much from it after that.

[dmlonestar]

Reading the thread reminded me that I had seen "dampers" offered while sourcing steppers for my CNC build.

I found these guys to be quite helpful and they have a different solution for dampening which might be of interest: http://www.linengineering.com/contents/ ... ories.aspx

[theverant]

Reading the thread reminded me that I had seen "dampers" offered while sourcing steppers for my CNC build.

Sound issues aside, I wonder if those dampers might help reduce vibration and give better quality prints?

[Flateric]

Reading the thread reminded me that I had seen "dampers" offered while sourcing steppers for my CNC build.

Sound issues aside, I wonder if those dampers might help reduce vibration and give better quality prints?

This is actually the primary purpose of them.

A dental mill has a claimed accuracy of 4 microns, ya I know wow. They all use the dampers on all motors.

And I do agree we are not at the 4 micron level....ever little bit should help, right?

They also help prevent resonant step loss and skipping of some type that was way over my head, lol.

[Highcooley]

Has anyone tried something like this:
http://www.ebay.ch/itm/Stepper-Motor-NE ... _500wt_956?

I bought a set for my old 3D printer but never used them. I might give them a shot one day on the rostock. However, right at the moment I am not very keen on disassembling my printer

[Av8r RC]

I tried that on my Sumpod. Because the wood frame of the printer seemed to be almost a speaker box the way it amplified the sounds the motors made. I just made a template in SW, then printed it out. And used some cork gasket material from AutoZone. I only put 1 layer of it down (kinda thin at 0.062 thick). It helped but was still loud. I've been meaning to take it apart and add some more, just never got around to it.

FWIW the MAX is about 1/2 to 2/3 quieter than my sumpod.

If you all want I can post up the file.

[bvandiepenbos]

I to think my Rostock is annoyingly loud.
Awhile back I laser cut some 2mm thick rubber motor washers but have not tried them yet.

~*Brian

[aehM_Key]

Hi Brian! What do you have under the heads of the screws, which mount the stepper?

[Eaglezsoar]

I to think my Rostock is annoyingly loud.
Awhile back I laser cut some 2mm thick rubber motor washers but have not tried them yet.

~*Brian

Trick_Laser-Rostock_MAX-motor_vibration_isolation_washer-1.jpg

Trick_Laser-Rostock_MAX-motor_vibration_isolation_washer-2.jpg

Would you be interested in selling 4 of these, they look like they have potential.
Carl

[bvandiepenbos]

Hi Brian! What do you have under the heads of the screws, which mount the stepper?

either rubber washers I cut from same rubber with a steel washer under screw head, or nothing ... not sure.
rubber washer may let motor move to much.
without may still transmit some of the stepper noise to frame.

have not had time to try it.

~*Brian

[bvandiepenbos]

[/quote]
Would you be interested in selling 4 of these, they look like they have potential.
Carl[/quote]


hey Eaglezsoar, if you have time fairly soon to test them out and post your results I would mail them to you at no cost.
I just don't have the time anytime soon.
If they work I would sell them on my Rostock Accesories web site www.tricklaser.com
You will need longer screws, if I remember correctly the OEM ones are 3mm X 10mm. So you will need 12mm or 15mm if putting rubber washer under head of screw. Although the rubber washer under screw head will likely allow motor to move to much.

Email your address to me at [email protected] if you are interested.
I would like to know before MRRF March 15-17 so I can cut some and bring along.
(Midwest Rep Rap Festival in Elkhart, IN) http://midwestreprapfest.org
Are you attending?

~*Brian

[Eaglezsoar]

See my email to you.

Carl

[astroboy907]

Hey all, noob to these forums. I don't have a CNC but I am working on a project involving some steppers and machined aluminum.. I would love for it to run as quiet as it can (for the least $$). I am thinking of buying a couple of those astrosyn dampers, but I don't need 10 of them (yet..). If anyone knows where i could just find a couple NEMA 17 dampers (2), that would be amazing!

Also if anyone has them from this thread it would be really helpful to me to know how much noise they dampen. I was just going to use rubber washers, but now IDK. Thanks in advance
-Astroboy907

EDIT: I am based in Idaho if that helps with location.