3D Printing threatened by DMCA and Stratasys - due TODAY

General hangout discussion area for other non-printing stuff
Post Reply
User avatar
Jimustanguitar
ULTIMATE 3D JEDI
Posts: 2608
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:35 am
Location: Notre Dame area
Contact:

3D Printing threatened by DMCA and Stratasys - due TODAY

Post by Jimustanguitar »

The DMCA (digital millennium copyright act) is being re-evaluated and how it relates to 3D printing is on the docket. The idea of product ownership is being challenged by companies that want to make tinkering and product modification illegal. "JailBreaking" a 3D printer could someday be akin to modifying the sensors in an airline lavatory :) Stratasys specifically wants to make it illegal to tinker with their machines that only take chipped spools and can't use 3rd party filament, and they're citing copyright concerns :/

This is a very good read on the DMCA issue.
http://www.wired.com/2015/04/dmca-ownership-john-deere/

Here's Make's write-up on it as well.
http://makezine.com/2015/04/30/really-3d-printer/


TODAY IS THE LAST DAY TO SUBMIT COMMENTS ON THE MATTER. Tell them your thoughts!
https://dmca.digitalrighttorepair.org/form
User avatar
forrie
Printmaster!
Posts: 159
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:15 am
Location: Crab Nebula

Re: 3D Printing threatened by DMCA and Stratasys - due TODAY

Post by forrie »

Stratasys seems to be the embodiment of the evil corporate empire, or the spawn of Satan.
I'm not an alcoholic...I'm Australian!
User avatar
626Pilot
ULTIMATE 3D JEDI
Posts: 1716
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 12:52 pm

Re: 3D Printing threatened by DMCA and Stratasys - due TODAY

Post by 626Pilot »

Well, I typed a whole ton of stuff into that form and the page reloaded itself for no reason so now everything I typed is gone.

Idunno if I feel like typing it all again.
User avatar
Nylocke
ULTIMATE 3D JEDI
Posts: 1418
Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:43 pm
Location: Iowa

Re: 3D Printing threatened by DMCA and Stratasys - due TODAY

Post by Nylocke »

If it isn't too much of a bother please do, I love hearing your opinions on these things Pilot.
User avatar
626Pilot
ULTIMATE 3D JEDI
Posts: 1716
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 12:52 pm

Re: 3D Printing threatened by DMCA and Stratasys - due TODAY

Post by 626Pilot »

I thought it was important enough to try again, so here's what I typed in order:

Regarding jailbreaking:
I respectfully submit that TracFone is full of beans.

If you jailbreak (root) your phone, you can install antivirus/firewall software that will block against FAR more threats. Sure, you can install AV software on a non-rooted phone, but it's crippled! It can't stop apps with ridiculous permissions requirements from rifling through your contacts and selling the data to advertisers. It can try to block malicious texts and websites, and it can try to block hackers trying to come in over BlueTooth, NFC, or WiFi. However, without root access, it DOES NOT have the same amount of capability to effectively intercept and interdict these malicious payloads.

Indeed, the ability to protect one's phone from spyware and hackers is GREAT justification for being able to root your phone, but how about another?

It's YOUR PHONE.

If you cover it in lighter fluid and set it on fire, Apple doesn't care.

If you take a sledgehammer to it and drop it into an active volcano, Samsung won't shed a tear.

If you want to install CyanogenMod because you're sick of your phone company's bloatware, or the spyware some of them have historically installed to peek at your privacy and sell you out to advertisers, that's on you. It's YOUR phone, not theirs. It would be theirs if you hadn't paid for it, but you have. It belongs to you, and your right to root it or install another OS should not be curtailed by corporate sociopaths who think they have a right to parsimoniously dictate every last thing you do with YOUR phone.
Regarding repair:
If I want, I can open a copy of some software in a hex editor and change words like "File", "Edit", "Save" to "Burn", "Kick" and "Break".

Is it the Copyright Office's intent to prevent me from customizing my software like this?

If I buy a car, I also buy the engine control unit (ECU). I've paid for every atom of copper, fiberglass, silicon, germanium, etc. in that ECU. I've also paid a share of the development and support time it took to write the ECU software.

If I want to modify my ECU's internal tables so that it delivers more power, the concerned parties become myself, the state's environmental regulatory entity (such as the CARB), and any other local/state/federal entities tasked with regulating emissions and other things that pertain to vehicles where I'll be operating mine on public roads. The Copyright Office is not a party to this. The CO does not issue regulations for ground vehicles because that has nothing whatsoever to do with its mission.

If the auto manufacturers object to the possibility of emissions being made worse, it's fine because they can already talk to the EPA and state authorities. In the case of CARB, there are already strict regulations about what you can do in terms of vehicle modification. This makes sense because unlike the Trademark Office, CARB is staffed by people who have the training to know what they're dealing with. This is merely an attempt by automakers to do an end-run around the normal legislative process by going through the Trademark Office.
Regarding "remix your media":
The right of instructors and students to make reasonable, credited use of copyrighted materials for non-profit, educational purposes is a settled matter of law. If they don't like it, they need to go to the courts. The Copyright Office is not a court. It is not the Copyright Office's job to help parasitic content publishers get their own custom laws, much less to make it more difficult for teachers and students to conduct their work.

In any case, if I can't use screen capturing, I can use something else. The DVD and BD formats are ALREADY compromised. I can download free software TODAY that will rip the content into non-DRMed media files. If something is available only in a digital format, there are ways of obfuscating drivers and other code that would make it very difficult to extract the content sans copyright protection. However, it CERTAINLY isn't impossible.

First, you have to send me the encrypted file.
Second, you have to give me a means to decode it.

No matter how tightly secured your drivers are, a programmer with sufficient experience can still reverse-engineer everything. It's just a matter of time. However smart the developers are who designed the encryption, there is ALWAYS someone smarter, who's patient enough to bypass that encryption. At the end of the day, there still has to be code running on a processor that can decode the content. That vulnerability cannot be bypassed except with custom sealed chips that nobody has in their computers, and even then, it's only a matter of time before someone dissolves the chip covering and figures out how to latch out its EEPROM code. Then, it will be compromised.

Suppose it can't be compromised. Can I hook up a signal analyzer to the LVDS output on my HDTV and rip the pixels directly? Yes... yes I can. I can grab every pixel in the clarity it has been decoded in. NO form of copyright protection, no amount of driver obfuscation or other clever programming, matters in the slightest for this scenario. If I can rip the pixels right off the TV display, the battle is already lost.

So, you can see that their arguments are specious. They cannot design an unbreakable form of content encryption. Harassing teachers and students is not going to change that.
Regarding DVD ripping:
It is offensive, this idea that I should have to buy digital versions of content I already bought on DVD.

Why do I need to buy the same content twice?

I don't.

I should have every right to rip a CD, DVD or BD and put it on a media server for home use. If I do that, I'm still using it the same way I would use a DVD, except that the needless mechanical action of loading and ejecting DVDs is taken out of the loop. If I were to hand it out or show it to a large audience, I would be in the wrong. However, home users who don't do this ARE NOT in the wrong, and they DO NOT deserve to be punished "just in case."
Regarding the use of new servers with legacy games:
"Multiplayer gameplay over the Internet is not a core functionality of the video game"

Multiplayer via the Internet IS a core functionality of almost every video game that has networking code. BY DEFINITION. If a user spends 5 hours playing a game offline (single-player) and 95 hours playing it online (multi-player), how can the online play be said not to be a part of the core functionality of a game?

You see how thin their argument is. They're trying to manipulate you, to pull the wool over your eyes.

Don't reward them for this. Tell these liars to shut up.

If I buy a game, and the creators have shut down the multiplayer server, I should have EVERY right to use a third-party one.

If I buy a game, and I want to use a multiplayer server not controlled by the creators - whether for any reason or for no reason at all - remember, I paid for it. It's MY game, not theirs. They do not have ANY right to tell me that I can only use it through them.
Regarding how much I would like to make an island out of old hot garbage, and banish Stratasys to it, well, I managed to not save that text. It was probably more interesting on this forum than the rest. Sorry about that.

Anyway, I pointed out that Stratasys has a long history of using patent trolling to parasitize far smaller companies and deliberately stifle innovation. I pointed out that there is no reason why the Copyright Office needs to help Stratasys force its customers to pay $250 for what costs $30 on Amazon. I pointed out that the patent trolling is bad enough, and the Copyright Office has no cause to get in the middle of this.

In the closing remarks (which they append to all the messages for different things) I pointed out that this is really a conflict between investors and consumers. I pointed out that these companies would love to have the ability to corner markets, coerce consumers into only dealing on the companys' terms, and to be able to extract exorbitant amounts of money from consumers for ever and ever. It is a fundamentally self-absorbed viewpoint these companies come to us with. It lacks any sense of ethics, of respecting others' reasonable expectations. I pointed out that the Copyright Office's job is not to help them do that.
User avatar
Jimustanguitar
ULTIMATE 3D JEDI
Posts: 2608
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:35 am
Location: Notre Dame area
Contact:

Re: 3D Printing threatened by DMCA and Stratasys - due TODAY

Post by Jimustanguitar »

I didn't save my text, but I related the Stratasys claims to requiring that all flashlights use Energizer batteries by law or that you may only use Bic branded pens on white copy paper. It's market manipulation that should be looked at by the FTC and seems irrelevant to copyright law.

I also elaborated on how 3D printing didn't explode and trend towards being a multi-billion dollar industry until companies like that's patents expired and the technology became public domain. It's the tinkerers and hobbyists and artists that have spawned the recent trend in 3DP, and controlling the "authenticity" of common consumables would hinder the majority of consumers and stifle the technological advances to come.
User avatar
626Pilot
ULTIMATE 3D JEDI
Posts: 1716
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 12:52 pm

Re: 3D Printing threatened by DMCA and Stratasys - due TODAY

Post by 626Pilot »

Jimustanguitar wrote:It's market manipulation that should be looked at by the FTC
HEAR HEAR!!!!!
I also elaborated on how 3D printing didn't explode and trend towards being a multi-billion dollar industry until companies like that's patents expired and the technology became public domain. It's the tinkerers and hobbyists and artists that have spawned the recent trend in 3DP
Wish I had thought of that.

I wonder when we'll find out what they decide.
User avatar
Jimustanguitar
ULTIMATE 3D JEDI
Posts: 2608
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:35 am
Location: Notre Dame area
Contact:

Re: 3D Printing threatened by DMCA and Stratasys - due TODAY

Post by Jimustanguitar »

Here is what Stratasys submitted. The interesting part of their claims start on page 8 (interesting to me, anyway).

http://copyright.gov/1201/2015/comments ... 1_2014.pdf
User avatar
KAS
ULTIMATE 3D JEDI
Posts: 1157
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:06 pm

Re: 3D Printing threatened by DMCA and Stratasys - due TODAY

Post by KAS »

I don't think I'm understanding/comprehending the issue. Is stratasys & 3D Systems trying to justify the use of microchiped material to guarantee a minimum quality or protect some type of intellectual property?

The market is saturated with 3d printer manufactures where I don't really see this being an issue unless you own one of their systems and want to use proto-pasta filament for example.
User avatar
Jimustanguitar
ULTIMATE 3D JEDI
Posts: 2608
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:35 am
Location: Notre Dame area
Contact:

Re: 3D Printing threatened by DMCA and Stratasys - due TODAY

Post by Jimustanguitar »

They want to make it illegal to hack or modify the products that you buy. Stratasys doesn't want you to be able to tinker with a 3D printer, you buy it as is and never touch it with a screwdriver, by law.
So to sell more filament, they're threatening one of the main things that's catalyzed the industry's advancement and creativity, and are blaming it on copyright infringement...

That's my fear when I read it, anyway.

You're right that people will just buy something else, it's already happening. That's why the "big dogs" in 3D printing have lower earnings and stock values than predicted. The market changed without them and they're scared. That's when large companies call in the lawyers and congressmen to stimulate their economy.
User avatar
626Pilot
ULTIMATE 3D JEDI
Posts: 1716
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 12:52 pm

Re: 3D Printing threatened by DMCA and Stratasys - due TODAY

Post by 626Pilot »

Jimustanguitar wrote:Here is what Stratasys submitted. The interesting part of their claims start on page 8 (interesting to me, anyway).

http://copyright.gov/1201/2015/comments ... 1_2014.pdf
Petitioners assert that “consumables can be thought of as the 3D printer equivalent of ink or toner in 2D printers,”20 but the analogy is inapt. The output of a 3D printer is a three-dimensional physical part, generally built entirely from the consumable printing material. [Lots of words completely irrelevant to the first sentence deleted. -Ed.] In contrast, the consumable toner in a 2D printer is bonded to a flat substrate, and therefore has no structural or mechanical properties’ requirements.
The problem here is that Stratashit is alleging that because there are differences between filament and ink cartridges, that that means that the similarities are invalid and simply don't exist. The fact that both devices use consumables that go into the finished product and have to be replenished when expended, is, indeed, an irrefutable fact. Attempting to weasel around that irrefutable fact by ignoring it and instead supplying lots of words that do nothing to refute it seems awfully disingenuous and manipulative to me.
Some non-system manufacturers attempt to mimic proprietary formulations to sell knock-off versions of genuine materials for use with closed systems. Petitioners provide one example, that of third-party non-genuine materials for 3D Systems’ “Cube” line of printers.23 As discussed below, such materials can be ill-suited for the uses Petitioners seek to facilitate through this rulemaking."
"Can" be? They are trying to imply the Copyright Office shouldn't allow people to try non-price-gouged filament because it "can be ill-suited." The printers' owners are not to be able to find this out for themselves, you know, "just in case." Because it's the Copyright Office's job to play nanny and make sure you don't use a filament that "might" not work, even though the overwhelming probability is that it will work just god damned fine, thank you very much, you lying liars who lie.

BTW, here is a photo of a box that was printed with Stratasys filament, and then with Octave filament using a hardware hack. How? :) Is this? :) An act of copyright infringement? :)
Stratasys and Octave filament.jpg
Then, there is Part II, which is a laugh and a half!
II. PETITIONERS HAVE FAILED TO MAKE A PRIMA FACIE CASE IN SUPPORT OF
THEIR PROPOSED EXEMPTION.

To make a prima facie case for an exemption, proponents bear the burden of proving that (1) uses affected by the prohibition on circumvention are or are likely to be noninfringing, and (2) as a result of a technological measure controlling access to a copyrighted work, the prohibition is causing, or in the next three years is likely to cause, an adverse impact on those uses.48 As detailed below, Petitioners have failed to make either showing.
OK... this is the standard they are setting themselves up to meet.
Petitioners Have Not Demonstrated Any Noninfringing Uses Enabled by the Proposed Exemption on Circumvention.

i. Petitioners Cannot Meet Their Burden Without Describing the Circumvention Activities for Which They Seek an Exemption. “The burden is on proponents to show that circumvention of TPM is noninfringing....”49 An exemption will not issue if proponents do not provide sufficient information about the circumvention they seek to facilitate through the rulemaking process. 50 Without such information, the Register and the Librarian cannot evaluate
whether the act of circumvention creates an infringing copy or derivative work, or whether it falls outside of the scope of the rulemaking because the technological measure circumvented does not control access to a copyright protected work.51 The Register has emphasized that a class cannot be designated “in a factual vacuum.”52
Public Knowledge/LCA's comments can be found here. I am not sure why they want to avoid delineating any of the methods for circumvention, although I suppose it might be to avoid giving Stratasys any information that the company could use to stop people from using those circumventions.

Of course, information on how to circumvent a 3DS printer's Customer Experience Improvement Extortion Module is freely available online. Here is an example of a mod that does nothing to the software on a Cube printer, but fools it into letting you use 3rd-party filament. This mod works with a Stratasys Dimension SST 768 printer, and works by removing log files from the hard drive and re-flashing the filament spool's EEPROM.

If all you're doing is downloading the EEPROM off the spool, never giving anyone a copy of it, reflashing it over and over, and zapping some log files, is that infringement? :) Is that the same thing as running a dissassembler on their software and handing the source code out to anyone who wants it? Are you giving even one line of their source code to someone who doesn't have that printer?

...No? Okay, glad we're on the same page.

Is the fact that PK/LCA's comment doesn't contain information anyone can look up on Google grounds for dismissing their request? Perhaps, on some minor procedural issue. This is an important matter and it needs to be discussed, so letting it slide on some minor technicality would be ill-advised, I think. The "Librarian" referred to in these docs could just look these things up him or herself, yes? Should "You didn't hand over information that would take anyone literally five seconds to find on Google" be adequate reason to dismiss a matter of such gravity? I say that would be a travesty.

Here is an interesting quote from an appellate court ruling from 2003 regarding circumvention of trivial nonsense designed to coerce consumers:
Chamberlain's proposed construction would allow any manufacturer of any product to add a single copyrighted sentence or software fragment to its product, wrap the copyrighted material in a trivial "encryption" scheme, and thereby gain the right to restrict consumers' rights to use its products in conjunction with competing products.
The court told Chamberlain :) that it couldn't :) game :) the system. :)

Oh, hey! That means that a legal precedent in good standing exists, which indicates the Courts' preference not to play bully for manufacturers who want to lock their customers in.
Circumvention to Use Non-Manufacturer Approved Materials Does Not Enable Noninfringing Uses.

To the extent that Petitioners’ proposed uses can be evaluated, the proposed uses do not qualify as noninfringing uses within the meaning of Section 1201(a)(1)(A).54 As the Register stated during the last triennial rulemaking, “[a]n exemption may not be based simply on perceived beneficial or desirable uses,”55 but must be one of the uses expressly protected by Title 17, such as fair use as described in Section 107, certain educational uses described in Section 11, and certain reverse engineering described in Section 117.56 Circumvention of a technological measure that does not control access to a copyright-protected work is beyond the scope of the rulemaking and cannot support an exemption.57 Circumvention that creates an unauthorized derivative work or copy is infringing unless it constitutes a use protected by Title 17.58
Time to trot this out again:
Stratasys and Octave filament.jpg
This is an example of a non-infringing use. This is Title 17. Section F indicates that the title is not to be used against people who are reverse-engineering something solely for purposes of making one program compatible with another. Why would there be any ethical difference between making two programs compatible, and making a printer compatible with a spool of filament? They are both done for interoperability. That one action concerns software, and another hardware and feedstock, is utterly irrelevant in any ethical consideration.

Software, hardware, and feedstock DO NOT have ANY innate properties that bear on the question of whether one should be interoperated with more or less freely than another. They imply a distinction without a difference.
User avatar
KAS
ULTIMATE 3D JEDI
Posts: 1157
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:06 pm

Re: 3D Printing threatened by DMCA and Stratasys - due TODAY

Post by KAS »

Completely off topic but this reminds me of the Keurig 2.0 debacle. The K-cup patent expired a few years ago. That's when the market exploded with the single use cups because the large coffee companies like Folgers and Starbucks could sell their brand K-cups for use in the Keurig coffee makers.

Keurig now feeling the loss of the K-cup market designed the Keurig 2.0 which has a DRM scanner built into the machine. They designed their banded K-cups with a special type of coating that only their "new" machines can read. If you put a non-2.0 K-cup the machine it displays this message(below).

It didn't take long for people to realize you can just tape the ring of the used 2.0 cup to the sensor and bypass any DRM protection. We bought the new 2.0 for my wife's mother as a gift not knowing about the 2.0 issue. It's funny to watch her get all excited because she's "hacking" the system to use her old K-cups..
k2.0-oops-screen.jpg
User avatar
Jimustanguitar
ULTIMATE 3D JEDI
Posts: 2608
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:35 am
Location: Notre Dame area
Contact:

Re: 3D Printing threatened by DMCA and Stratasys - due TODAY

Post by Jimustanguitar »

The best part of waking up is non-infringing OEM coffee in your cup!

(all joking aside, I know one of the Keurig founders personally, and he's an amazing human being. Always promoting charity, driving canned food and clothing to disaster areas with his own car, etc. Hell of a guy.)
User avatar
Captain Starfish
Printmaster!
Posts: 950
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:24 am

Re: 3D Printing threatened by DMCA and Stratasys - due TODAY

Post by Captain Starfish »

Jimustanguitar wrote:The best part of waking up is non-infringing OEM coffee in your cup!

(all joking aside, I know one of the Keurig founders personally, and he's an amazing human being. Always promoting charity, driving canned food and clothing to disaster areas with his own car, etc. Hell of a guy.)
Hell of a guy, but still an utter arse hat if he still has anything to do with a company that thinks this is a great and ethical way of retaining market share and continuing revenue after initial sales.

Same for chipped batteries for some rebreathers, pagers etc.

Same for new charging cables from crApple.

Just a shitty way of doing business. If you want to keep earning money from me, continue offering value for that money.
User avatar
Jimustanguitar
ULTIMATE 3D JEDI
Posts: 2608
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:35 am
Location: Notre Dame area
Contact:

Re: 3D Printing threatened by DMCA and Stratasys - due TODAY

Post by Jimustanguitar »

Captain Starfish wrote:Hell of a guy, but still an utter arse hat if he still has anything to do with a company that thinks this is a great and ethical way of retaining market share and continuing revenue after initial sales.
He actually left the company about 3 years ago (could probably buy a private island now) and moved to South Bend to retire as a college professor. That's how I know him. I think he got out before the whole DRM mess, so I don't hold it against him. It would be interesting to ask about his thoughts on the matter, though.
User avatar
Captain Starfish
Printmaster!
Posts: 950
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:24 am

Re: 3D Printing threatened by DMCA and Stratasys - due TODAY

Post by Captain Starfish »

Glad I qualified it rather than just going on a hate fuelled rampage then :)
User avatar
Generic Default
Printmaster!
Posts: 554
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:56 pm
Contact:

Re: 3D Printing threatened by DMCA and Stratasys - due TODAY

Post by Generic Default »

I'm still a bit unsure why people even buy the large FDM machines from Stratasys anymore. It seems like it's mostly prototyping companies and job shops who do, but they might not realize that they now have to compete with tons of hobbyist printers that operate at a fraction of the price and make identical parts most of the time. I don't know how much longer Stratasys will be in business.


Side note; people seem to think that getting products made in China is the cheapest way to go. They're actually not that cheap anymore, and this strategy of selling the machine at very low markup and then ripping off customers for proprietary consumables is what you're limited to sometimes. Although in the case of Stratasys and the proprietary 3d printers, you sell it at a high price AND ALSO price gouge on the consumables!
Check out the Tri hotend!
IMBoring25
Printmaster!
Posts: 616
Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:11 am

Re: 3D Printing threatened by DMCA and Stratasys - due TODAY

Post by IMBoring25 »

Everything has an application.

1) It is very hard to find the build volume of even the mid-level Fortuses in a home-brew machine. Sure, you can sometimes piece together a bigger part from multiple prints, but there are times that function or required accuracy for the final product will not permit that strategy.

2) Their machines do what they do, and they do it highly repeatably. The one at work is getting to the point where it jams one or both nozzles more often than not, but if it prints the way it is supposed to, the result is consistently dimensionally accurate. One of the things you're paying Stratasys for is having done all the fiddling with settings, so you generally won't lose a part due to shrinkage, cracking, or corner lift, and you won't have to mess with glue stick, Kapton, or hair spray.

3) There are applications for which you need particular thermal, mechanical, or chemical-resistance properties. If you need properties of a material like Ultem for a given application, that's what you need. Over at the RepRap forum, they figure that would take a 186C chamber that would also need to be sealed and properly exhausted since it decomposes some nasty products before it melts, as well as a nozzle temp in the 330-350C range. Buying a few hours on a Fortus owned by a prototyping shop would get you that. For the home tinkerer, it would be, shall we say, ambitious.
User avatar
Jimustanguitar
ULTIMATE 3D JEDI
Posts: 2608
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:35 am
Location: Notre Dame area
Contact:

Re: 3D Printing threatened by DMCA and Stratasys - due TODAY

Post by Jimustanguitar »

Yeah, the industrial companies still make industrial quality machines, but they have been, and for a long time. They missed this wave and are waiting on the next one.

I'd like to look up their financials for the past decade. Are they doing worse than before, or does everyone just expect them to be doing better because other types of 3D printing have exploded? It's like room sized printing presses vs a $30 desktop paper printer. They technically do the same thing, but they're vastly different and aren't really in the same market space.

The MakerBot purchase is a move that any large company in the same position's advisors would tell it to do, but those people didn't understand what made 3D printing explode and how a business move like that would turn a lot of people from your brand.

I don't think anybody involved is bad or evil, they're just ill-informed and are losing ground. It will be interesting to see what happens to the big dogs now that they're selling at Best Buy. Flop or fly... hard to predict.
User avatar
626Pilot
ULTIMATE 3D JEDI
Posts: 1716
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 12:52 pm

Re: 3D Printing threatened by DMCA and Stratasys - due TODAY

Post by 626Pilot »

Generic Default wrote:I'm still a bit unsure why people even buy the large FDM machines from Stratasys anymore. It seems like it's mostly prototyping companies and job shops who do, but they might not realize that they now have to compete with tons of hobbyist printers that operate at a fraction of the price and make identical parts most of the time. I don't know how much longer Stratasys will be in business.
They will be in business for as long as the legislature tolerates patent trolling. They are like vampires. They buy a patent, and then they put the screws to anyone who's using whatever is mentioned in it. Basically, they're buying their way into a monopoly, and purchasing the right to extort others in exchange for absolutely nothing. Corporate psychopathy exemplified, and the government HELPS them do it.
stonewater
Printmaster!
Posts: 345
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:24 am

Re: 3D Printing threatened by DMCA and Stratasys - due TODAY

Post by stonewater »

I have a friend who works at autodesk, told me I should buy stratasys NOW!!! as the stock is a bit depressed and there is some big shennanigins afoot... perhaps this is what he was referring to..


Tom C
MAX V1
325 MM carbon arms trick trucks effector mount LED ring heat spreader
Corvair750
V6 Hotend
Robo 3D
Flashforge creator
http://WWW.TeslagenX.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - Bedini experimenter kits, books, DVD's
User avatar
KAS
ULTIMATE 3D JEDI
Posts: 1157
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:06 pm

Re: 3D Printing threatened by DMCA and Stratasys - due TODAY

Post by KAS »

depressed is an understatement. RSI shows SSYS way oversold right now. I'd expect a bounce but they wont double a current value return anytime soon. A lot of short sells are driving it down, but no telling when it's a good time to ride it back up. I personally wouldn't be interested until it hits single digits.

https://www.tradingview.com/chart/?symbol=NASDAQ:SSYS
stonewater
Printmaster!
Posts: 345
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:24 am

Re: 3D Printing threatened by DMCA and Stratasys - due TODAY

Post by stonewater »

someone is takin a bath!!! geez looks like AOL did a few years ago..... looks like the bottom is not there yet..... poor quarterly report too..... not gonna invest in a company I don't believe in anyway..... now if seeme goes public, count me in!

Tom C
MAX V1
325 MM carbon arms trick trucks effector mount LED ring heat spreader
Corvair750
V6 Hotend
Robo 3D
Flashforge creator
http://WWW.TeslagenX.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - Bedini experimenter kits, books, DVD's
Post Reply

Return to “The Lounge”