3D printers: gateway drug?

[Xenocrates]

I'm afraid that what Generic is saying is pretty true. And I'm speaking from a position of one of those ~20Y/O's (Actual age, 17) Three quarters of the people at my community college, which has extensive industrial tech and welding departments, would find it challenging to name a third of the tools that I would want in a tool-box. Many of those have never experienced a need to do anything with a tool more complex than a hammer and screwdriver. (Thanks Ikea, for introducing lazy people to Allen keys). The Industrial tech department is now facing a resurgence, and have gotten important enough to finally escape the shipping and receiving building, having been moved out of our original building and lab long ago. It's been decided that in addition to all the traditional machine tools, like wire EDMs, mills, lathes, gantry routers, and waterjets, to add laser cutters and a fleet of 3D printers (sadly, I could not convince them to go for a Rostock. They picked the Taz 5, which is a good machine), and to actually let students use them. (there's been a Stratasys machine on the floor for ages, but they've not let the students have at it.) Enrollment is increasing gradually, and there's room to add more curricula, as we'll finally have the student base for advanced classes to run without being cancelled by the college (they apparently won't allow a 6 person class, even if it is profitable for them)

Most of the people ~20 have maybe played around with lego's, or FIRST robotics. And those are a good start. But only some of them actually worked with FIRST stuff. Few got beyond a hacksaw and a hot glue gun. I know people who try to pull saws through wood (and it worked in that case, because I mostly prefer pull saws, and buy good Japanese ones). There are people who can't figure out the difference between a hex and a Torx bolt.

But there is hope. Makerspaces and Hackerspaces are full of twenty-somethings doing things, be it hair-brained schemes, or working on a project. Working with your hands is trendy. Artisinal is a watch word. Hand-crafted a badge of pride. Many of them will never translate that into a working, producible prototype. But some will. And most of them will learn. And they'll try again. And again. Some will go into the industry, to turn passion into profit. Some will take what they know and earn a decent living standing in front of a machine, pushing buttons and turning knobs. Other's won't do a thing with it, other than make some clever gimcracks. But enough will.

[626Pilot]

12/2012: Bought Rostock MAX v1

10/2013:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPkDpuTiTb4[/youtube]
Big machines can be hard to find space for, but BOY has it ever saved me a lot of work! I've been giving serious consideration to this desktop 5-axis as well.

[nitewatchman]

I came in the other way, I have had a lathe and mill of some fashion for forty years. Worked with NC/CNC almost that long. First CNC was a Pratt-Whitney Trimac 25 Horse VMC in 1976.

First personal CNC mill was a Micro-Kinetics Express Mill in 2007 (converted RungFu with VFD 2hp Spindle). Did well for us and a lot of money fell off the table from parts made for locals shops.

Bought a Tormach PCNC1100 in 2012. Machine is 2hp, has ATC, power draw bar, 8" tilting rotary axis, Full Tormach Enclosure, two spindles - conventional 200RPM to 5140RPM and high speed 10,000RPM to 24,000RPM also 2HP. This is truly an addictive machine. Fast, affordable, capable. Our ROI was about 11 months.

Then along comes 3D-Printing. I had bought a Z-Corp 450 for my day job for $57,000 in 2010.

After seeing the RMv2 on CNC Cookbook, SynerTech, LLC had to have one. SynerTech, my night job company owns it and it hasn't made any money, but it has been exciting.

Would make a good deal on the Express Mill if it would serve to "hook" someone else.

[Krinje]

Don't even tempt me with the offer! I wish I had the room. (apartment life) Though I suppose I'm already 'hooked'

[Windshadow]

I found this interesting article that is tangentially connected to this topic (of course I would include old fashioned manual machining as well as any other sort of "making")
http://3dprintingindustry.com/2016/01/22/65234/
by Andrew Wheeler

3D printing is part of a larger ecosystem of technologies focused around capturing reality (laser scanning, photogrammetry, multi-sensor registration), working with spatial data (CAD, physical modeling, computational design, simulation), and using data to interact with and influence the physical world (augmented/virtual reality, projector systems, CNC machining, robotics). This conceptualization is called Reality Computing, which 3DPI has covered numerous times in the past.

[Eaglezsoar]

I found this interesting article that is tangentially connected to this topic (of course I would include old fashioned manual machining as well as any other sort of "making")
http://3dprintingindustry.com/2016/01/22/65234/
by Andrew Wheeler

3D printing is part of a larger ecosystem of technologies focused around capturing reality (laser scanning, photogrammetry, multi-sensor registration), working with spatial data (CAD, physical modeling, computational design, simulation), and using data to interact with and influence the physical world (augmented/virtual reality, projector systems, CNC machining, robotics). This conceptualization is called Reality Computing, which 3DPI has covered numerous times in the past.

Thanks for posting this, some of the pictures are very informational.

[Windshadow]

For me the interest it was the way these "REAL" folks seem to be taking the " Its a big church" approach to all of these various methods of making and visualizing the whole concept of 'making'

[fletcher]

I saw my first SLA part back in 1994 - it was a prototype for an internal part of a gas pump. The mold shop I worked for had to build a tool for production. I remember several of us standing around saying, "Really? A laser and liquid"? I have been hooked ever since.

This is the first time I admit to my addiction, and I do so as a warning to all whom are taking their first "hit". I am now on my third cnc router, have a Rostock Max V2, a DIY resin printer, and a vinyl cutter. Wishing(dreaming perhaps!) for a full-on, commercial machining centre, preferably 5 axis! When this digital-making bug bites, it bites hard!

It is a long and extremely interesting path. You will digest 3d, mechanical, and electrical knowledge, and only crave more. Please, please, make sure you do whatever you can to get more. This addiction will not harm you, but will enhance the way you see the world, when you start to realize that you can make really cool stuff. Enjoy your new addiction, and be sure to share it openly with others so it spreads!

Love this thread!

[Eaglezsoar]

I saw my first SLA part back in 1994 - it was a prototype for an internal part of a gas pump. The mold shop I worked for had to build a tool for production. I remember several of us standing around saying, "Really? A laser and liquid"? I have been hooked ever since.

This is the first time I admit to my addiction, and I do so as a warning to all whom are taking their first "hit". I am now on my third cnc router, have a Rostock Max V2, a DIY resin printer, and a vinyl cutter. Wishing(dreaming perhaps!) for a full-on, commercial machining centre, preferably 5 axis! When this digital-making bug bites, it bites hard!

It is a long and extremely interesting path. You will digest 3d, mechanical, and electrical knowledge, and only crave more. Please, please, make sure you do whatever you can to get more. This addiction will not harm you, but will enhance the way you see the world, when you start to realize that you can make really cool stuff. Enjoy your new addiction, and be sure to share it openly with others so it spreads!

Love this thread!

I agree 100% with everything you said. The only limiting factor being funds!

[Krinje]

Its a healthy limit, one that drives ingenuity and learning. I have a Fortus 400 at work, its the most boring grey cabinet sized box I've ever met. Personally I can't wait for my next shoestring project.

[fletcher]

Its a healthy limit, one that drives ingenuity and learning. I have a Fortus 400 at work, its the most boring grey cabinet sized box I've ever met. Personally I can't wait for my next shoestring project.

Exactly. Having a low budget is part of the challenge. I bought my first two cnc routers, yet I always wanted bigger. I built the third one on a shoestring budget, it is 4'x8', and it's my best machine yet.

How do you find part quality(I guess mainly surface finish) from a Rostock, compared to the Fortus? Are we close?

[Krinje]

Its a very consistent machine, no fiddling required. Curiously with no scientific comparison It seems to have similar vertical banding tenancies/finish. I think the frequency and amplitude of the bands is a bit lower. (wider, smoother) but its defiantly noticeable via reflected light on flat surfaces.

The big value is no-fuss, fast and 99.9% reliability, very large build volume, we run it all day every day, over the weekends (Internal model shop for the R&D branch of a bio-tech).

I've defiantly seen parts on this forum that are equal or better than the quality of the Fortus. (mhackney's reels for example)

Wow 4'x8' that is an impressive table. I really wish I wasn't apartment bound, I would love to build a new machine from scratch or a conversion hobby mill.

[Xenocrates]

So, Fletcher, willing to post a BOM and design stuff for that 4X8 router? I've been wanting to make one myself.

[Captain Starfish]

Something that big would be nice but I've no room for it either.

A recent purchase for home renos was a vertical panel saw (slide the sheet timber in standing on one edge, circular saw runs down vertical rails) which has me thinking, though... I wonder how feasible it would be to do something similar with 3 axes.

[KAS]

Something that big would be nice but I've no room for it either.

A recent purchase for home renos was a vertical panel saw (slide the sheet timber in standing on one edge, circular saw runs down vertical rails) which has me thinking, though... I wonder how feasible it would be to do something similar with 3 axes.

Would "love" to have something like this. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=136HqrXOMpw[/youtube]

[barry99705]

Something that big would be nice but I've no room for it either.

A recent purchase for home renos was a vertical panel saw (slide the sheet timber in standing on one edge, circular saw runs down vertical rails) which has me thinking, though... I wonder how feasible it would be to do something similar with 3 axes.

Would "love" to have something like this. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=136HqrXOMpw[/youtube]

Showed this to my wife. She said she doesn't love me that much!

[fletcher]

Op, my apologies for the hijack - if it goes too long, I will start a separate thread.

That huge laser machine looks interesting. Not overly enthusiastic about all that mdf though. I'd be more inclined to build a metal frame with aluminum gantry. I had started designing my router as a vertical machine, like a panel saw, which is great for sheet stock, but mounting a vice or anything becomes a pain. I ended up going flat.

This video shows the machine pretty well. It's a little fuzzy and shaky, shot with an old digital camera, but you will get the idea. I don't have blueprints or a BOM, but if you look closely, it is just an over-sized Cartesian printer. I have a 100M Rhino3d file for it too - where would I upload it for you Xenocrates?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIMhBHxH1ng

[Xenocrates]

Fletcher, I would suggest BT sync (just add it and then share the secret, and it will go ahead and do P2P transfer in the background), Mega (an encrypted file locker that works rather well, especially for large files), or just straight Google drive. all of those work for me, as will almost anything else (As I used to play an online game referred to as spreadsheets in space, I got very good at getting, and moving, large spreadsheets and datasets)

[barry99705]

Op, my apologies for the hijack - if it goes too long, I will start a separate thread.

That huge laser machine looks interesting. Not overly enthusiastic about all that mdf though. I'd be more inclined to build a metal frame with aluminum gantry. I had started designing my router as a vertical machine, like a panel saw, which is great for sheet stock, but mounting a vice or anything becomes a pain. I ended up going flat.

This video shows the machine pretty well. It's a little fuzzy and shaky, shot with an old digital camera, but you will get the idea. I don't have blueprints or a BOM, but if you look closely, it is just an over-sized Cartesian printer. I have a 100M Rhino3d file for it too - where would I upload it for you Xenocrates?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIMhBHxH1ng

They started using MDO for their machines a while back. It should be fairly stable for indoor machines, the original use for the material was outdoor signs. They also have a vertical cnc router. Been on my wishlist for years now.