Diary of a RoStock Max V2 print

[Stevolution]

OK. Found a full copy of the Repetier software. Uploaded it with the thermistor set to type 8.

Ran PID autotune for 200 deg and put the averaged values into the EEprom.

However, if you then ask for 200 deg, it races past to about 212 deg and then drops back. It does hold the temp around 200, but the 10 degree overshoot is something new.
Wrong thermistor value?

[Polygonhell]

Just poor PID values, auto tune is close to useless with higher powered heaters, just reduce I somewhat.
You may also have to reduce P or PID drive max.

[mhackney]

I'd suggest manually tweaking the PID values: http://www.newportus.com/products/techncal/techncal.htm

This sounds more like a tuning issue than a thermistor value. The later would stabilize at the wrong temperature.

[Stevolution]

Well I just went to use it and the temp soared to 230 when I asked for 200.... so I pulled the plug.
That cannot be the right thermistor type in the configure.h file.

Is anything simple on this expensive table ornament?

[barry99705]

Well I just went to use it and the temp soared to 230 when I asked for 200.... so I pulled the plug.
That cannot be the right thermistor type in the configure.h file.

Is anything simple on this expensive table ornament?

I had issues with doing the pid tuning. What I used, and I'm pretty sure still using is the example numbers from Gene's photos in the user guide, page 29.

[Stevolution]

Tried recalibrating the hotend with the power turned down, but it has made it worse.
Tried using the figures in the build manual but that failed too.
I aimed for 220 and it blasted up to 240 before I cut the power. It does level out, so the stat is doing something.
But, its not working correctly. So I am stuck at the moment, as I have no idea what to adjust or set to make it work.

[Polygonhell]

The issue is not the thermistor, it's just the PID values.
If it were the thermistor it would read the requested values and be too hot or cold when measured with a thermocouple.
The PID values determine how the firmware modulates power to the heater based on the reading from the thermistor.
IME the autotune in Repetier is usually useless for any heater over about 20W, it will normally ballpark P for you, but I and D are usually way off.
If it's getting up to temperature really fast and overshooting by a lot, I'd start by cutting Pid Drive Max, it'll reduce the amount of energy your trying to tune out with I and D, which makes it easier. There is a lot written on tuning PID loops, IME you can set D to some low value say 0.1, and just tune P and I, if your seeing excessive "ripple" after that you can tweak D up a bit.

[Stevolution]

Well after an evening of messing around with PID values, I finally got a print out of the stock hotend.

Then when I removed the print, it took a huge lump of the glass plate with it

This hobby sucks the big one

[geneb]

Nah, the hobby is great.

The problem is that you've angered the 3D Printing Gods and boy are they a petty bunch.

g.

[Xenocrates]

Recommended troubleshooting tools at this stage:
Chicken, 1, live
Painters tarp, 1, 6 mill
Knife, 1, Obsidian

If application of these tools does not suffice, be sure to have the following on hand for the next stage of troubleshooting:
Virgin, 1, live.
Volcano, 1, active.
Ominous chant, CD, 8-track, or live.
Grass skirts, 13+.

More seriously, wow. That is an impressive string of mishaps. It's almost as if there are gods to be angered here, and you pissed in their cheerios. I hope you keep going, and that your success with your milling machine is far better than your success with the printer recorded here.

[Stevolution]

The only thing getting sacrificed around here will be this $&*!$%& printer

[DeltaCon]

Please, sacrifice it to me... I will arrange the shipment!
Must say that my own escapades are not always succesful either, but I'd love an extra machine to experiment with.

[Stevolution]

Well I turned the damaged glass over, but after one print .... its totally gone

So, I either order another bit of glass and keep going, or simply sell it cheap without the glass and let someone else take over the never ending hassle.

Not even sure why the heck the glass failed

Any ideas where to get a replacement in the UK?

[Stevolution]

Well failure all around so far trying to find a new glass hotplate (except from the US)
Robbosavvy in the UK did say they could get one (basically ordering from the US anyway), but I asked them to go ahead and they never replied.

So, its now living in the garage until further notice

[geneb]

If you're working with PLA, just get a circle of glass cut at a local shop that's the same (or close) thickness as the original glass. That'll allow you to continue to work out the issues you've got.

g.

[Eaglezsoar]

If you're working with PLA, just get a circle of glass cut at a local shop that's the same (or close) thickness as the original glass. That'll allow you to continue to work out the issues you've got.

g.

As Gene mentions, it will allow you to continue to work but the heat will crack them eventually.
They are usually inexpensive compared to the original glass so pick up a few of them.

[Windshadow]

If you're working with PLA, just get a circle of glass cut at a local shop that's the same (or close) thickness as the original glass. That'll allow you to continue to work out the issues you've got.

g.

As Gene mentions, it will allow you to continue to work but the heat will crack them eventually.
They are usually inexpensive compared to the original glass so pick up a few of them.

When I asked about this when my first plate arrived broken with the kit... I was told that mirror glass was best but I forget the reason.

[Polygonhell]

Mirror glass is very flat.
I used plain old 1/8th inch window glass $3 from my local hardware store for years on various cartesian printers at temperatures > 120C, and never had one piece break. I did usually cover them with either Kapton or PET tape, but it isn't necessary. You need to let them cool naturally, they can break, but they don't shatter.
The pulling chunks out thing is a uniquely borosilicate issue. It was originally a differentiator to ship a printer with it, now it's pretty much expected, given my experience with plain window glass I'm not convinced it was ever much of a win.
Having said that I have 2 SeeMeCNC round glassplates which I use on my R-Max V1, I bought them when they were first introduced 3 years ago, and neither of mine have ever had a chunk pull out.

[626Pilot]

I had an 11" glass disc cut by a local glass shop. Any of them can do it. I told them it needed to be strong enough to withstand high temperatures, so they cut it out of oven glass. I don't know how flat it is, so anyone who's been having flatness issues might want to ask the glass cutters if they're set up to measure how flat it really is. Total surface variance should be within 20 microns, and ideally less.

I've been using a SeeMeCNC borosilicate plate for awhile, and it's fine. I use these Elmer's school glue sticks as an adhesive for PLA, and contrary to popular belief, the formulation still works fine. (It isn't the "vanishing purple" variety.) What I bought two months ago works just as well as what I bought in 2013. I expect my 60-pack, which cost about $18, to last for years.

While this thread doesn't appear to have a happy ending in sight, the information it contains is invaluable for anyone who wants to know customer pain points on 3D printers (and more specifically, this one). Many companies spend huge amounts of money trying to figure out what goes wrong after the customer gets their product out of the clean laboratory environment, and into the home/business environment, where it no longer benefits from being surrounded by people who know every last thing there is to know about it. I feel reasonably confident that most people here are tinkerers who really, really like SeeMeCNC, and so when they run into something frustrating, they may ask for help - but they won't let on how frustrated they might be, because they don't want to rock the boat. On one hand, civil discourse is a very good thing, and I would never discourage someone from regulating what they communicate, so as to avoid spreading their bad day to other people. That takes self-control, and is commendable. However, on the other hand, knowing what people find the most difficult to work with is a GREAT thing, especially for a company that's interested in making incremental improvements over time. SeeMeCNC is obviously such a company. If it wasn't, we'd all be building Rostock MAX v1 printers from templates that haven't been touched since 2012. Knowing that Thing A is only slightly annoying, and Thing B is hair-rippingly annoying, means that they should consider spending time on Thing B first.

[Stevolution]

Well just as an update...

Gave up trying to find a proper round Borosilicate disc and used an old bit of square 4mm glass I found in the shed. Works fine

Actually now managed to print 8x identical mounting brackets for my pickup truck using the standard RoStock Hot-end. That E3D-V6 hot-end sent me on a route to pain and frustration.

Still suffering curling and warping if the print is over a few inches in diameter however.
Tried printing on blue painters tape and the tape just came unstuck after a while.
Best results so far are ABS juice, but its far from perfect.

[Xenocrates]

It's progress at very least. A chamber might help with the curling/warping, although printing brackets for some designs might be hard. Perhaps a cabinet for it, such as one of the flat-pack closet cabinets, with a cut-out in a shelf to isolate the electronics from the print area, and a couple of fans in the electronics bay. As would putting a cardboard box around it, short term, or raising ambient temps while eliminating drafts (AKA, turn off the AC for a while)

[Stevolution]

Yes. I was thinking of some kind of enclosure as a next step.
Perhaps add a couple of those pet heater lamps as well to keep the inner temp a little higher