Heating Resistor Failed :(

[Qdeathstar]

I guess i didnt get enough RTV silicone in the hole. The heating element won't get above 185 so from that i surmise that one of the elements is shitcanned. How do i go about getting a replacement. I seen them on seemecnc, but i'd rather go to mouser since i buy stuff from them all the time and i can combine the shipment.

THANKS!

[Qdeathstar]

EDIT:

Actually, does a cartridge fit into the stock hotend? I have a few of those hanging around from my old printer

*feverishly starts tearing apart hotend to find out*


I was going to use this as an excuse to put together my e3d v6... but if all i need to do is slide out the resistors i might do that instead.

[Mac The Knife]

Yes a cartridge will work, (6mm x 20mm) Geneb has a youtube video on installation of said cartridge.

[Mac The Knife]

[youtube]http://youtu.be/xvXKt3xDt4E[/youtube]

[Mac The Knife]

http://youtu.be/xvXKt3xDt4E

[Xenocrates]

If you're going with a cartridge heater (They totally fit. You could do two if you were slightly insane or wanted really fast heating times), I suggest you also get an M3 threaded thermistor. They are great to work with. Resilient, easy to install, and E3D compatible. Also means you can ditch the RTV and use thermal paste for potting instead, which will mean your temperatures are more accurate.

[Mac The Knife]

The added bonus to watching the videos, is that from then on, when ever you read a post by geneb, you will read it with his voice in your head.

[Qdeathstar]

I already have the threaded thermistor, and as luck would have it some off than fancy tape gene was showing off. I had the video on mute...

[Qdeathstar]

OK< i think i am back in action. Had to recalibrate and reapply some gluestick but its printing now, so we'll see how it goes.

[geneb]

The added bonus to watching the videos, is that from then on, when ever you read a post by geneb, you will read it with his voice in your head.

I don't know whether I should be impressed or terrified.

g.

[geneb]

I _strongly_ recommend you replace the RTVd thermistor with the threaded one if you're using a heater cartridge. If the thermistor pulls out, that heater cartridge has the ability to melt the _aluminum_ portion of the hot end and you can imagine what those kind of temperatures are going to do to all the other much more flammable bits.

g.

[Qdeathstar]

already done that mod when I built the machine. Got another nice print out the deal.

[Qdeathstar]

While I was having this problem, I also assembled my e3d... Does the heat block look too close to the platform??

[Xenocrates]

While I was having this problem, I also assembled my e3d... Does the heat block look too close to the platform??

Little close. I have one that's similarly close. It put a minor dent in the side of it once when I was doing something stupid, but no warping or failure yet. I do keep a spare platform on hand though, to avoid murphy baiting.

[Eaglezsoar]

It looks a little close but I love the way you took the advice of Xenocrates and Geneb.
The Hotend looks good with the threaded thermistor and the ceramic heater. Good Job!

[connellbost]

I installed an E3d to my rostock V2 yesterday. Will set preheat to 220. Machine Will heat well and quickly up to 105, then slow down and max out at 120-122. Feels hotter to touch. What could be the problem. Using the threaded thermistor, PEEK fan turn on great, just wont reach the correct temperature. Afraid to melt something. Ordered a new cartridge from amazon, but does not appear to be the primary problem.

[connellbost]

Could someone give me an idea to troubleshoot this problem?

[Mac The Knife]

I believe you have to change the thermistor value in the firmware if you're using the E3d thermistor. The search function will reveal all.

[Xenocrates]

I installed an E3d to my rostock V2 yesterday. Will set preheat to 220. Machine Will heat well and quickly up to 105, then slow down and max out at 120-122. Feels hotter to touch. What could be the problem. Using the threaded thermistor, PEEK fan turn on great, just wont reach the correct temperature. Afraid to melt something. Ordered a new cartridge from amazon, but does not appear to be the primary problem.

Try this thread out. I troubleshot a similar problem for someone else recently: http://forum.seemecnc.com/viewtopic.php?f=77&t=10371

[connellbost]

What do think about the cartridge being the wrong voltage? They may have sent me a 24V not a 12V cartridge. Will check the resistance, should be 6 for a 12V and ~20 for a 24V right? Had the same problem with the extruder housing melting. My thermistor settings are good: set to 8 for the thermsitor sensor type. Any other changes to be made as I use the screw in thermistor?

[Xenocrates]

Yes. Assuming it's the screw in thermistor here: https://www.amazon.com/Modular-Thermist ... B00THZJIY8 or a similar one, you will need to set it to sensor type 97 and find the generic table 1, then replace the commented out block with the following:

define GENERIC_THERM1_T0 25
/** Resistance at reference temperature */
define GENERIC_THERM1_R0 100000
/** Beta value of thermistor

You can use the beta from the datasheet or compute it yourself.
See http://reprap.org/wiki/MeasuringThermistorBeta for more details.
*/
define GENERIC_THERM1_BETA 4092
/** Start temperature for generated thermistor table */
define GENERIC_THERM1_MIN_TEMP -20
/** End Temperature for generated thermistor table */
define GENERIC_THERM1_MAX_TEMP 300
define GENERIC_THERM1_R1 0
define GENERIC_THERM1_R2 4700

As far as resistance, assuming it's a 30W cartridge, which is what E3D ships for 12V systems most of the time (They have 40W available for higher temps, if you really need it), then the resistance should be in the neighborhood of 4.8, and for a 24V cartridge, those are all 40W, and thus a resistance of ~14.5

[connellbost]

Thank you for the information, but I'm a little confused by your last post. Sorry, new to this 3D printing world So the sensor type is now set to 8 which were the instructions given by matterhackers when I installed the original E3D with the regualr thermistor. So why now to 97? So 97 is the new value for the screw in thermistor? Are we referring to the change in sensor type for the thermistor on line 187 in the config file? your last post had a link imbedded into the code, is that correct? I dont want to mess anything up. I appreciate your help


define GENERIC_THERM1_T0 25
/** Resistance at reference temperature */
define GENERIC_THERM1_R0 100000
/** Beta value of thermistor

You can use the beta from the datasheet or compute it yourself.
See http://reprap.org/wiki/MeasuringThermistorBeta for more details.
*/
define GENERIC_THERM1_BETA 4092
/** Start temperature for generated thermistor table */
define GENERIC_THERM1_MIN_TEMP -20
/** End Temperature for generated thermistor table */
define GENERIC_THERM1_MAX_TEMP 300
define GENERIC_THERM1_R1 0
define GENERIC_THERM1_R2 4700

[Eric]

What do think about the cartridge being the wrong voltage? They may have sent me a 24V not a 12V cartridge. Will check the resistance, should be 6 for a 12V and ~20 for a 24V right? Had the same problem with the extruder housing melting. My thermistor settings are good: set to 8 for the thermsitor sensor type. Any other changes to be made as I use the screw in thermistor?

You can actually measure the resistance, and calculate the power you can get at your voltage: P = V**2/R
If you do have a 40W 24V cartridge, you'll be producing only 10W at 12V.

Or you can calculate the expected resistance from what you think the Voltage and power ratings are: R=V**2/P
Xeno did the math for you, but didn't explain how he did it. I like to teach people to fish also. The ohms law chart:
[img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... _wheel.JPG[/img]

[Xenocrates]

Thank you for the information, but I'm a little confused by your last post. Sorry, new to this 3D printing world So the sensor type is now set to 8 which were the instructions given by matterhackers when I installed the original E3D with the regualr thermistor. So why now to 97? So 97 is the new value for the screw in thermistor? Are we referring to the change in sensor type for the thermistor on line 187 in the config file? your last post had a link imbedded into the code, is that correct? I dont want to mess anything up. I appreciate your help


define GENERIC_THERM1_T0 25
/** Resistance at reference temperature */
define GENERIC_THERM1_R0 100000
/** Beta value of thermistor

You can use the beta from the datasheet or compute it yourself.
See http://reprap.org/wiki/MeasuringThermistorBeta for more details.
*/
define GENERIC_THERM1_BETA 4092
/** Start temperature for generated thermistor table */
define GENERIC_THERM1_MIN_TEMP -20
/** End Temperature for generated thermistor table */
define GENERIC_THERM1_MAX_TEMP 300
define GENERIC_THERM1_R1 0
define GENERIC_THERM1_R2 4700

So, in explanation: There are a large variety of thermistors. In point of fact, each one is slightly different, even with the same model number. There are a number in common use for 3D printers, largely dependent on supply chain and mounting solutions. 8 is correct for the original thermistor that E3D shipped. The screw in thermistors have a different model of thermistor in them, and so need a different sensor table. In this case, the sensor doesn't have a preset sensor table written into the firmware, but does have examples for tweaking the firmware's generic tables to suit. In this case, I have tweak generic table 1 (Sensor #97) to fit. In this case, what you're going to do is find the everything between

#define USE_GENERIC_THERMISTORTABLE_1

and

// The same for table 2 and 3 if needed

Once you've selected all that, just go ahead and replace that, including those two lines (Just to be one the safe side, because you're not too comfortable with the firmware.), with the following (it's not quite the same as earlier, note that it includes the first and last lines, with the first line lacking that # before it)

#define USE_GENERIC_THERMISTORTABLE_1

/* Some examples for different thermistors:

EPCOS B57560G104+ : R0 = 100000 T0 = 25 Beta = 4036
EPCOS 100K Thermistor (B57560G1104F) : R0 = 100000 T0 = 25 Beta = 4092
ATC Semitec 104GT-2 : R0 = 100000 T0 = 25 Beta = 4267
Honeywell 100K Thermistor (135-104LAG-J01) : R0 = 100000 T0 = 25 Beta = 3974

*/

/** Reference Temperature */
define GENERIC_THERM1_T0 25
/** Resistance at reference temperature */
define GENERIC_THERM1_R0 100000
/** Beta value of thermistor

You can use the beta from the datasheet or compute it yourself.
See http://reprap.org/wiki/MeasuringThermistorBeta for more details.
*/
define GENERIC_THERM1_BETA 4092
/** Start temperature for generated thermistor table */
define GENERIC_THERM1_MIN_TEMP -20
/** End Temperature for generated thermistor table */
define GENERIC_THERM1_MAX_TEMP 300
define GENERIC_THERM1_R1 0
define GENERIC_THERM1_R2 4700

// The same for table 2 and 3 if needed

That should get you what you need, and you can use Ctrl-F to find the first line quickly inside configuration.h

Eric, I appreciate you taking the time to dig up that graphic for him. As they say, give a man a fish, and he will be fed for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he will be fed until over-fishing destroys his entire village.

[Eaglezsoar]

Xenocrates, thanks for your help with all of this. Your knowledge and your willingness to help is appreciated!