2nd Edition Review Thread

[kbob]

kbob, this is absolutely brilliant! THIS is the kind of feedback I wanted to see!

g.

I knew you were either going to love it or hate it. Thank goodness you made the right choice. (-: As I build the thing, I'll probably find a couple more things to comment on.

I'm not understanding about the temperature of the connectors. You put the connector about 3 inches above the hot end, right? Is it still hot enough to melt plastic up there? It's way up above the cold end, further away than the fan housing, the delta arms, and all that flammable melamine.

I have some 4 conductor JST-SM connectors that I'm planning to use, unless I misunderstand about the heat.

[geneb]

I wanted to err on the side of caution. One of the reasons you crimp the connection to the resistors is that hot end temps can get high enough to flow solder. I figured using a robust connection would make sure there would be no chance of an issue if the heat wasn't dissipating very well.

If you're not concerned with the heat problem, then by all means use the connectors you've got - there's nothing written in stone that says you have to do it the way I did. Do you have a ready source for those connectors?

g.

[kbob]

Do you have a ready source for those connectors?

g.

I got them from Adafruit.

http://www.adafruit.com/products/578

And I just walked over to the local hobby shop -- they have the Dean's connectors, and now I do too. (Just one pair for the bed heater.)

[kbob]

• Errata
• Chapter 10 (Delta Arms). Which side of the Effector Platform is the top?

I figured this out. The top and bottom of the Effector Platform are identical, so there is no wrong orientation. (You probably thought I was kidding, but I really did not know.)

[geneb]

I was going to answer, "Drop it on the table. The side facing you? That's the top."

Thanks for the link to the connectors. I'll have to add those to my arsenal. I'd be happier if all the wires weren't black...

I don't care much for the Deans connectors - I used to fly them a lot and didn't care for how tight they were. They caused a lot of wire stress to get them apart because there really wasn't anything to grip to pull them apart.

g.

[ApacheXMD]

Original size deans were a pain in the butt to pull apart, but I like the micro deans. They've got a lip with which you can pull them apart. I'm using a single 4-pin micro-dean for the hot end resistors and thermistor with no issue. Pulls apart easily without stressing wire.

http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_inf ... -Connector

[geneb]

Thanks for the tip ApacheXMD. I'll add that to the list of choices as well.

g.

[geneb]

Ok, new version is up and ready for a hammering. Still doesn't contain the calibrate & config sections yet.
https://github.com/seemecnc/RostockMAX/ ... BLY_MANUAL

g.

[geneb]

Ok, this update includes the full calibration section.

Github is having a problem with large files, so if you don't want to download the whole RostockMAX repository, you can grab just the PDF file here:
http://www.geneb.org/rostock-max/Rostoc ... -Guide.pdf

153 pages so far.

g.

[kbob]

Hi, Gene.

I'm partway through assembling my beast. Here are some further comments. These apply to version 1.02 of the assembly guide, dated May 29th. I know you've already got a new version out. That's why I'm dumping my notes so far. I'll pull the newest rev. and continue building.

These comments are a little less organized than the first batch. They are also a lot fewer; you should apreciate that.

I believe you're reading my build log. I mixed up the order of assembly and I think I improved on the original ordering. But I'm not writing about those here, for the most part.

• My kit did not come with 3/4" 4-40 socket head screws to affix Rambo to the chassis. So I used some 3/4" 4-40 flathead screws. They look horrid, but Steve's component photos at http://seemecnc.org/download/RostockMAX ... X-Hdw2.jpg says "THIS WILL BE A FLATHEAD SOON".
  
  Did I do it wrong?
• For the feet, can you please include a close-up photo or text that makes it clear that the nylon screws go in from the bottom, and the nuts go on the top? I figured it out by zooming in on the photo until I could make out the detail, but I'm too lazy to do that without whining about how hard it was.
• P. 30 para 1. "Now you can finally install the top" should be "... install the table". The third sentence of para 1 and the third sentence of para 2 also refer to the table as the top.
• I did not know that cyanoacrylate comes in different viscosities. Apparently, it does, and thick stuff is better for bonding to wood. I bought thin stuff, though... Could you please mention what kind of CA to get?
• P. 19. You recommend using star lock washers to hold the motors. Star lock washers are not in the tools and materials list. (I'm not convinced they're needed anyway. I didn't have them, so I used some regular split ring M3 lock washers. They ended up being a torque guide -- I torqued the screw until the lock washer disappeared into the melamine. (-: )
• P 21 para 2. my kit has phillips head screws, not socket head, for installing the pulleys.
• P 26 para 2. You might state that there are seven covers to install.
• End of chapter 2. The manual does not say that you need to go back and tighten all internal screws and the idler shafts.
• Chapter 3. Why, oh why didn't I install the T-Slot nuts as soon as I built the tri-slot assemblies, right after the idler wheels?
• P 35 para 1. "Make sure the T-Nuts are oriented parallel to the T-Slot nuts" should be "Make sure the T-Slot Nuts are oriented parallel to the T-Slots". (I'm not sure about the capitalization.)
• Page 47, para 1. My kit does not have different length wires for the limit switches. All six of my wires are about 67-68 inches long.
• It's a lot easier to affix the limit switches if you turn the whole machine upside down.
• p. 55. 6-32 socket screw requires 7/64 hex key wrench, not listed in the tools & materials list.
• p 58. long screws are 2", not 1.75".
• p. 77, para 4. "1/2" #4 screws" should be "1/4" #4 screws".
• We installed RAMBo in chapter 13, then in chapter 16, you point to a video which says to use the RAMBo to hold the connectors while soldering. Please rearrange so that the LCD board is built before RAMBo goes in. (Or maybe you like soldering inside a little orange box. (-: )

Anyway, that's what I have so far. Thanks for listening.

[kbob]

Oh, dear.

The new version was edited on June 3rd, but still carries "Version 1.02, May 29th" on the cover page. I will refer to it as version 9b9ee2d (first few digits of git commit ID).

[geneb]

The RAMBo mounting screws would be pan head if they changed from socket head - using a flat head screw there would indeed look like crap.

Thick CA isn't better at bonding to wood. However, it gives a bit more working time and is "gap filling". I thought I'd made a note about using thick CA, but apparently I didn't.

I just looked at the PDF and apparently my recent edits ganked the formatting (again). Page breaks are all screwball now.

Installing the limit switches with the machine upside down might be easier, but it's also a gilded invitation to have Murphy stop by and really screw up your day. (big weight on top, little weight on bottom. one bump and it's all over but the cryin')

I've printed out your list and I'll review it this weekend when I add the remaining parts of the manual. Thanks for the feedback!

g.

[kbob]

Thick CA isn't better at bonding to wood. However, it gives a bit more working time and is "gap filling". I thought I'd made a note about using thick CA, but apparently I didn't.

g.

The stuff I used did not really bond the nuts in place. They still popped out at the slightest touch. I had thought that thicker CA would have bonded better, but I have no direct experience with that.

[geneb]

How long did you leave them undisturbed? Some of the slower thick CA can take up to 30 seconds to cure. You could also kick it if you've got some handy.
g.

[lordbinky]

I've used the guide to assemble a kit from the start, and the few times I noticed something wrong I sadly (after doing it all day at work I'm impressed I still naturally reject this habit) didn't write it down. Off the top of my head the only memorable ones were screw related, for example different type in picture than worded and incorrect number of screws at a section.

Those being my biggest issues makes sense for my case where I don't have something as simple as an Ace hardware or equivalent within an hour of me that carries anything smaller than #8 screws , so the tension of being short a screw is almost as bad as missing a major part since the wait will be the same.

I also ran into that waiting longer than necessary anyways because I failed the first step of checking all the parts thoroughly, so I ran into the speed bumps such as an un-hobbed 'hobbed drive roller' and a split '20 tooth drive gear' (they come in Friday Yay!.....after 6pm…*glares at UPS guy and his evil route*).

[JohnStack]

I totally missed the waxed lacing cord addition. Great idea.

Makes me "wax" nostalgic for my days wiring cable harnesses for altimeters at Rockwell Collins. It was my first full time job and paid me enough to be able to start college.

Now, go learn a clove hitch...

http://www.tessco.com/yts/resourcecente ... ng-FAQ.pdf

Or watch this funky old guy - has to pass for the worlds longest cable-tying video ever recorded:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CERS4TT4uZY

Again, GeneB, thanks!!!

[geneb]

Cable lacing is an art, that's for sure. I use the waxed lacing cord in all my flight sim stuff - just looks more "correct".

I love the video! Thanks for posting that!

g.

[kbob]

Hi, Gene.

I've been sitting on these errata, sorry. I started printing two days ago and haven't stopped for breath yet.

These comments apply to the version that you published on June 3rd, but which erroneously had "Version 1.02, May 29th" on the cover page. git commit number 9b9ee2d.

And they are my opinions only. They're worth nearly as much as you paid for them.

• P. 99. The parts list at the beginning of the chapter is very nice. If you wanted to do that on all the chapters, I wouldn't mind. (-:
• P. 99. You might mention that the resistor is 4.7 KΩ. It seems weird to just say "1 resistor".
• P. 100, para 4. "Examine both the top of the board for vias" should be something else. I don't know what this is supposed to say. Examine both the top and the bottom? Examine the top?
• P. 100. Fig. 14-3 covers the page number. It appears to be bigger than the other photos.
• 14awg wire is not included. At least, it wasn't in my kit. I found some 12awg with high temperature insulation at Home Depot. Man, was it stiff! If it was just missing from my kit, that's fine. If everyone needs to acquire some, please add it to the tools and materials list.
• P. 110. "Cut two 1" lengths of the included PTFE". My kit included less than an inch total. I cut it into two ~0.45 inch halves. Those were (barely) long enough.
• Recommend building the effector platform (ch 9) and delta arms (ch 10) before installing motor belts (ch 8). It is easy to test for binding and free play when the Cheapskates are free to move. I used that to fine tune the tension on the Cheapskates and to satisfy myself that the U-joints didn't bind. You can use clamps (clothespins) on the extrusions to hold the Cheapskates up until the belts are on.
• P. 70, para 2. "The two figures below show..." I think you're talking about Fig 8-2 and 8-3. They are not the figures immediately below. How about "Figures 8-2 and 8-3 show..."?
• Pp 70, 73, 74. Your photos show washers on the 4-40 socket head screws. Your text does not mention them.
• Dean's connector does not fit through the slot in the table.
  

  

  Dean's is too big.

• P 140. "Swapping the positions of the yellow and blue wires..." doesn't work if your motors have the other color scheme. How about sayins "swap pins 1 and 2" instead of colors.
• All three of my motors are wired according to your diagram on page 13 but run backward. Is the diagram wrong? The EZStruder ran in the correct direction, though.
• RepetierMAX expects hot end fan to be on FAN0, not FAN1. (Grrr! This was the hardest electrical problem for me to debug.)
• Chapter 18. There are lots of temperature settings. Are they for ABS or PLA? I could not find where you said what kind of plastic you're setting up for.
• Chapter 18. Could we please type "F3500" fewer times? It doesn't have any effect after the first time, does it?
• Page 151, para 8. "G0 F5 X-77.94..." should be "'G0 Z5 X-77.94...". Z5 instead of F5.
• At the end of Chapter 18, can you please add some pointers to further calibration info? The manual just gets us to where the hot end doesn't hit the plate and plastic comes out at (roughly) the right speed. Now what? Are there some test objects to try?
• I feel like the manual ended quite abruptly. Maybe this version wasn't finished. I expected some sort of conclusion, congratulations, or maybe a photo of a printed vase.

Anyway, thank you for a great manual. I built my printer very quickly and with only a few hitches. It would have been much, much harder without your guide.

[geneb]

Thanks for the feedback kbob!

I didn't specify the value of the resistor because I didn't feel it was relevant. If you can sight-read a resistor, the chances are pretty high you already know what value is required to drive a LED from a 12v source.

The heated bed connector not fitting through the slot would only be an issue if you're removing the whole heated bed for some reason. I'm on the fence about worrying this point...

You're confusing the layer fan with the PEEK fan. The layer fan (used primarily with PLA) IS supposed to be on FAN0. FAN1 is what I use for the PEEK fan. The slider in Repetier-Host only controls FAN0. FAN1 is manually started by doing M42 P6 S255 (S0 to stop).

The manual is FAR from complete! Since I work on this in my spare time, when the spare time gets eaten up by higher priority things, manual production slows down.
The current git version of the manual is 168 pages and begins to cover doing your first print. I still have to finish that and then add in the troubleshooting and maintenance section as well as the "upgrades" chapter that will cover the various little hacks you can do to tweak your printer.

Thanks for your help! It's hugely appriciated!

g.

[kbob]

Thanks for the feedback kbob!

I didn't specify the value of the resistor because I didn't feel it was relevant. If you can sight-read a resistor, the chances are pretty high you already know what value is required to drive a LED from a 12v source.

No problem.

The heated bed connector not fitting through the slot would only be an issue if you're removing the whole heated bed for some reason. I'm on the fence about worrying this point...

I'm not understanding why we have a connector at all, then. To remove the RAMBo, you can unscrew the terminals. To remove the Onyx, you still have to snake the cable back through. Making the cable a couple inches shorter with a connector that won't fit out through the slot is um, an interesting strategy.

I did not put a connector in. If the Dean's had fit without cutting the table, or if I'd known to cut the table earlier in the process, I would have put it in the expansion bay, right where the cable comes through the table, to make removing the Onyx easier. If I ever have to replace the Onyx, I'll probably use that as an excuse to track down an XT60 connector. (Or maybe some automotive connector. Cars have lots of high current wiring.)

You're confusing the layer fan with the PEEK fan. The layer fan (used primarily with PLA) IS supposed to be on FAN0. FAN1 is what I use for the PEEK fan. The slider in Repetier-Host only controls FAN0. FAN1 is manually started by doing M42 P6 S255 (S0 to stop).

Ah, that explains a lot! But now I have two questions.

Q1. Is there any way to control that interactively from Repetier Host or from the LCD panel? Can you type in G-Code to R Host while a job is running?

Q2. How do you change the canned G-Code that is inserted at the beginning of each job? (I also want to change the sequence so that both heaters start immediately.)

The manual is FAR from complete! Since I work on this in my spare time, when the spare time gets eaten up by higher priority things, manual production slows down.
The current git version of the manual is 168 pages and begins to cover doing your first print. I still have to finish that and then add in the troubleshooting and maintenance section as well as the "upgrades" chapter that will cover the various little hacks you can do to tweak your printer.

g.

Of course. Understood and appreciated. I'll go re-read the last chapter or two in the .ODT sources.

[geneb]

Ok, maybe I totally over-thought the whole hot bed connector thing. I think it came about because Ultimachine replaced those awesome terminal blocks with those tiny-a** useless things that are a stone pain in the butt to get at. I've noted it as optional. I added the resistor value for grins.

A1. You can turn the fan on by issuing M42 P6 S255 to turn it on and M42 P6 S0 to turn it off. I cover this when talking about the Start G-Code and End G-Code sections in the Slic3r configuration for the extruder. (You don't have this page yet.)

A2. See A1.

One thing I'm considering doing is after I write the upgrades & tweaks chapter, putting an "Upgrade Point!" graphic at the original construction step where the user could install the upgrade while doing the original build. For example, when you're mounting the extruder and want to install a cork sound damper gasket, it would be easier to do when you first install the stepper motor as opposed to pulling the motor and installing them after you've completed the printer...

g.

[MWProtoType]

Great manual, BTW, however just reviewed the version from Aug 2nd and the part I am missing is the setup for the hot end that includes the new spool on top config. all the pictures show the original version, nice orange color BTW, and with the spool on top this changes the ability to route the wiring along the Bowden tube. Also, I have been struggling to find a good way to route the wires for the extruder motor that will keep it out of the way as well as tidy. Have been missing several screws throughout the process and have more than enough of others. Hopefully having parts left over is a good sign like most of my other projects.

This is where I am at so far any guidance would be appreciated.

[geneb]

Yeah, that's one of the things that drives me nuts about the guys. They create cool things, but stop just short enough to drive end-users out of their minds (including me!).

Wire routing for the top mounted extruder is unfortunately still at the "work it out" stage. I designed a pair of clips that will allow you to use a 3/8" dowel rod to support the stepper motor wiring along one of the tower extrusions. I use a cheap retractable lanyard to support the hot end wiring. I did a quick video a while back that shows how I did these things - see http://www.youtube.com/f15sim and watch the video titled "Quick overview of the SeeMeCNC top mounted extruder drive".

You can download the STL files for my mounting clip from https://github.com/seemecnc/rostockmax in the "PRINTED_ADDONS" folder.

g.

[JohnStack]

Gene, the video was a bit dark but thanks for posting it. I like badge holder retractor. Much better than my very loose spring.

[geneb]

Yeah, the lighting in my office is optimized for programming, not printer porn.

The badge lanyard was all of about $5 from Staples.

I'm thinking about replacing all the hot end wiring and run it along side the stepper wire on the dowel rod, but that requires an additional clip design and I just haven't had the time. I'm already hugely late on the "Upgrades" chapter.

g.