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Wow this is amazing. Was it difficult to get it running? I have no idea what sort of changes need to be made to switch boards - can you even use the same firmware?

Flateric wrote:Yup discussion has occured before, the deltas also tax the cpu with more complicated calculation as well as running more motors at a time.

My smoothie in the end was the exact same price as a Rambo.

Yes, I'll be post a few more examples as I go.

As Flateric says, there is another discussion in another thread. We speculated that the issue might be related to math/floating point precision and that appears to be on target. That's great that you are using the 1.9° steppers and seeing this improvement based solely on math precision.

And just to clarify your "running more motors at a time" so others understand - with a Cartesian printer, once the Z level is reached all movement is in the X-Y plane and only requires moving the X and Y steppers (so 2 steppers) and this is easy Cartesian math. With a delta, all three steppers have to move to put the nozzle at a given X, Y, Z coordinate, even if the Z level is the same for all and the math is much more complicated.

Flateric wrote:^^This makes alot of sense. One of the values in the config file is how many times per second the speed is checked during printing. The default value for this out of the box is 1000.

My steppers are the as shipped 1.8 degree guys and other than this my machine is not really remarkable other than being upgraded with the magnetic arms.

Ok, I asked Mark Cooper - when in doubt, go to the project's author!

"I don't really think that floating point timing is going to improve print quality either. The improved step timing *does* make a machine quieter but the "resolution" we are talking about from improving the step timing is pretty insignificant when compared to the print quality resolutions we can get in the first place. At a guess, your friend is getting great prints because he has a solid machine and has his settings tuned in well. Now ... for a kossel / delta style printer there actually are some basic differences in the way Smoothie moves vs. Marlin. In marlin, the speed and acceleration settings are applied to the carriages. This means the effector moves at inconsistent speed across each move. In Smoothie the speed and acceleration settings are applied to the effector itself. People I have spoken to who have used both styles say that there isn't really a quality difference in the prints though."

Ok then, we all know that floating point processors will improve floating point performance - when that's the issue -
but we're talking about devices where the triangles have already been calculated. Gawd, I would love to have the time to bench some of the arm movements.

I think I may need to write him.

I switched back to the x3 last night, and quality went right back to where it was previously. Absolutely no other changes, same files, same gcode, same host, even identical firmware/config settings. The quality was not crap, it was good. But it was not stellar like it was the second I switch back to the smoothie.

How did you get ahold of him easily might I ask?

As I walk around this morning making my coffee it occurs to me that even still the faster floating point does affect the print quality.

Because if you crank the speeds up on the Arduino based boards you very quickly will overload it's processor and start getting the dreaded pauses and rough movements.

Which really do ruin many prints, for me anyways.

If anyone has a specific print they would like to see, say so, and if I can find a moment I'll print and post pics.

Please nothing outragous that would take days to print. Pic something specific of smallish size that demonstrates some feature you want to see.

Flateric wrote:I think I may need to write him.

I switched back to the x3 last night, and quality went right back to where it was previously. Absolutely no other changes, same files, same gcode, same host, even identical firmware/config settings. The quality was not crap, it was good. But it was not stellar like it was the second I switch back to the smoothie.

How did you get ahold of him easily might I ask?

I PM'd you. I'm curious. I think it's the servo side of things and not the calcs. I hope Johnny is watching this thread...

I'm all for better boards and prints. I'm happy that you got the smoothy working. I ordered mine and can't wait to see it run a mini-Kossel. I've got an extra Rambo as well; so I'm very interested in seeing a comparison between the two live and in person as well.

Personally, I hope Mark has Johnny start doing his boards. Always great to see multiple options and keep the rep rappers all in the fam.

Print a couple of 30mm high cylinders, and boxes on both setups.

I find simple prints like this are the best reflection of a machines print quality because you can easily see inconsistent extrusion and layer alignment.

The current repetier build seems to be much worse with juddery movement than previous builds and that's a function of insufficient CPU performance and certainly affects quality.

Flateric wrote:As I walk around this morning making my coffee it occurs to me that even still the faster floating point does affect the print quality.

Because if you crank the speeds up on the Arduino based boards you very quickly will overload it's processor and start getting the dreaded pauses and rough movements.

Which really do ruin many prints, for me anyways.

If anyone has a specific print they would like to see, say so, and if I can find a moment I'll print and post pics.

Please nothing outragous that would take days to print. Pic something specific of smallish size that demonstrates some feature you want to see.

I strongly believe the issue is in the frequency of the updates to the steppers. You can't separate this from the floating point precision in a design like this because the same CPU is trying to do both at the same time and eventually the CPU bandwidth becomes saturated and the effect is obvious.

I would like to see something small like a 1.5" tall figure like a human head or something with more intricate moves. Maybe the issue is not as pronounced on small moves than it is on large objects like your case with sweeping curves?

A lego brick would be a good test. Both flat and curved aspects and small enough and hollow enough to be fast.
Here's one: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:591

Eric wrote:A lego brick would be a good test. Both flat and curved aspects and small enough and hollow enough to be fast.
Here's one: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:591

That looks like a great test.

Even though I've barely started my first printer build, count me in as very interested in this. Was it fairly forward to setup and get working, or did it take a lot of fiddling to get it working correctly?

Thanks

-David

Flateric wrote:I don't but I am never going back, lol.

http://flat3r1c.imgur.com/all/

Were you able to keep the LCD ? If the LCD is gone are you working to get one wired in?

I have not wired in my LCD yet, just have not gotten around to it yet. Others have, discount LCD, full graphic LCD, VIKI LCD and of course the smoothie branded one.

I'll tackle this after I finish up my effector build with pics using the premade balls and a HD platter.

Posting for watch.

You going to do a guide on this soon? I just coincidentally happen to have a smoothie laying around....

After looking through what I could find, it appears that the smoothieboard controls the 3D printer via its own firmware.
The G-Code that this firmware recognizes does not seem to have anything to do with dual extruders at this time, is this correct?

I'll check into this for you.

This thread has really peeked my interest!
Thanks for sharing and keep the info coming.

The smoothieboard was actually really easy to setup, I just used the premade config file and adjusted for my build and used the relevant numbers from the repetier firmware.

lordbinky wrote:The smoothieboard was actually really easy to setup, I just used the premade config file and adjusted for my build and used the relevant numbers from the repetier firmware.

I understand from seeing the pictures that the prints do look better but at this point in time do they have an LCD that you can install?
Can it run with dual extruders? What if the calibration needs tweaked, can this be done through the smoothieboard firmware? It seems
like you lose a little to gain better prints. I know the technology is in its infancy at this point but what are your feelings after getting it
working? Are the better prints worth what you lose?

Eaglezsoar wrote:After looking through what I could find, it appears that the smoothieboard controls the 3D printer via its own firmware.
The G-Code that this firmware recognizes does not seem to have anything to do with dual extruders at this time, is this correct?

According to their wiki, code for the 2nd extruder is in the testing branch of their firmware right now.

flateric, are there other forums where people are discussing setting up the smoothie, especially stuff like the LCD we all already have? The forum on smoothie's pages seems pretty anemic.

My smoothieboard is without an LCD until I can make an adapter for the pins (or if I split the ribbons into individual pins, but UGH! and I can't share my solution with that).

I configured my smoothieboard to use the fifth driver for my extruder since I blew the fourth driver (damn non-locking connectors). I feel like I could have setup a second extruder, buuuut I haven't and so I can't confirm that 100%.

Ya, I sorta feel the same way, after messing with it enough I can't really see any real reason that you would not easily be able to simple add the additional chunk to the config file with all the pins pointed the right way and have it work.

Unless there is a deeper firmware issue?

The viki LCD comes with all the pins broken out as is. So I would love to see your solution.

Can you post a picture of the same part printed Smoothie vs. Rambo?
Without a direct comparison it is impossible to judge quality.

Actually, you can see some things such as the common vertical banding is quite different. I had a test print cube (it's been destroyed by now) that had a fine crosshatch pattern (that was MUCH less prominent than the typical banding) in the walls. While visible, it was very much a pattern you could see but not feel (me or my friend couldn't at least).