Alternative Heated Enclosure for Rostock MAX

[travelphotog]

I am almost finished with my total enclosure. Goes from the build plate to above the filament area. Will have peltier dehumidifier and heater controlled by an Arduino.

I should be printing the first pieces this weekend for the base plates by the build plate. The render above is not finished as the filament top pieces are not in place yet. Takes almost as much time to build the render as it does to design the darn thing. More to come...

[teoman]

Do you need longer aluminum extrusions for ti?

[travelphotog]

Nope. Everything is printed out on the printer aside from the Plexiglas panels. Everything else is made on the printer. I should have a few pieces printed later this weekend. Doing top and bottom platforms then triple checking the upright size before printing them out also. By next weekend I should have it 100% finished and be starting on the Arduino side of things. Though my CNC mill is be here sometime next week I think, so that might sidetrack me a little.

[teoman]

Please do discuss more about the arduino. I can help. In fact, I will enjoy helping.

I have an LCD that is 2x16 and it looks just like the rostock lcd.

[travelphotog]

I will be running an Arduino to control the environment inside the build chamber and the filament area. I plan to use a system of heat exchangers and sensors to keep the chamber as hot or warm as I need and to control the humidity so I can print in polycarbonates and nylons with ease. Also looking forward to LARGE prints in ABS. The Arduino will sense the humidity and temp both inside the chamber and in the lower bay. A system of fans will move air as needed over the heat exchanger to either dry the air, cool or heat it up as needed. I plan to mill the PCB in the CNC when it arrives in a week or so and then hope to order my Plexiglas within a week or so of finishing the last print for the structure. I plan to mount the 20x4 LCD and Arduino inside a custom case and connect it with Cat5 cabling. I use the same connectors as a network cable and it allows you to make custom length cables with ease. I sue it all the time on my custom LED builds for reef tanks.

[teoman]

Cool.

I have an air temperature and humidity sensor, relay ( to motor) , soil moisture sensor and an ultrasonic sensor connected to an arduino wiyh an lcd at the moment.

[bdjohns1]

Fun fact about the STLs done by the OP - while they appear to be designed for heat/press threaded inserts to hold the panels in place (I'm guessing by measured hole dimensions they're an M6 insert), they can also work with regular old 8-32 nuts.

I've got a cheap little hit air rework station, so the method is:
1) Set the station to 350C (I printed in ABS)
2) Put the nut on the end of a long screw (2" worked for me without getting hot)
3) Hold the nut over the press-fit, and apply heat to the nut, but not the plastic, while applying gentle downward pressure.
4) Once the nut is just below the surface, remove heat and carefully remove the screw.

If you do it just right, the plastic should start to fold in over the nut in a couple of places just slightly, so it should stay put.

[Eaglezsoar]

That method of using a #8 nut sounds good and can save having to buy the inserts.
Good explanation!

[rymnd]

OP here. I used 1/4-20 heat-set inserts for the enclosure. It's true that they don't take that much load, but the heat-set inserts aren't absurdly expensive, and it's nice to not have to worry about them popping out anytime soon. The inserts are also easy to take out and re-use if you're junking the piece. Just insert a bolt, aim a heat gun at the insert, and wiggle the bolt back and forth until the insert pops out.

For larger inserts (and I suppose this should work with regular nuts as well), I usually hold them over a heat gun for about 30-40 seconds, and then quickly press them into the ABS piece. It's way faster than waiting for a soldering iron to heat up the insert. I generally make sure that I have a solid piece of material with a flat surface close by so that I can press on the insert and make it flush with the ABS part that I inserted it into.

Also, I don't know what profile you print out so that you can press in the nuts, but I found that I could print out the circular cavities for the heat-set inserts very reliably (such that they insert consistently and easily) in all orientations. That said, I use an inserted 12-24 nut for the bowden tube connector on my hotend assembly. Works great!

[bdjohns1]

OP here. I used 1/4-20 heat-set inserts for the enclosure. It's true that they don't take that much load, but the heat-set inserts aren't absurdly expensive, and it's nice to not have to worry about them popping out anytime soon. The inserts are also easy to take out and re-use if you're junking the piece. Just insert a bolt, aim a heat gun at the insert, and wiggle the bolt back and forth until the insert pops out.

For larger inserts (and I suppose this should work with regular nuts as well), I usually hold them over a heat gun for about 30-40 seconds, and then quickly press them into the ABS piece. It's way faster than waiting for a soldering iron to heat up the insert. I generally make sure that I have a solid piece of material with a flat surface close by so that I can press on the insert and make it flush with the ABS part that I inserted it into.

Also, I don't know what profile you print out so that you can press in the nuts, but I found that I could print out the circular cavities for the heat-set inserts very reliably (such that they insert consistently and easily) in all orientations. That said, I use an inserted 12-24 nut for the bowden tube connector on my hotend assembly. Works great!

I was trying to be frugal - I think for 24 of those fittings (4 per bracket), I was looking at something north of $15-20 from Amazon, Grainger, McMaster, etc vs 200 stainless steel 8-32 nuts for $6 at Menards. (and 8-32 is something I can never seem to have enough of)

I just printed your STL files as-is with the round holes. Since I already have a hot-air rework station (I've done plastic welding and such with it before), using it to heat the nut up was the easy way. With the hot air at 350C, it only took about 15 seconds per nut to heat and press. I'll throw a pic up when I'm back home. When I've had to print nut holes sideways like in your part, I print with the points of the hexagon vertical, so that I don't have to bridge on top. Only a 30° overhang, so it's fine unsupported.

I've made plastic "knurled" parts to press a nut into before to make a knob. I usually just print ~0.15mm larger than the nut dimension and get a good press fit without heating.

[geneb]

FYI, if you consume small fasteners like I do, you can't beat http://www.boltdepot.com for pricing.

g.

[BONE]

FYI, if you consume small fasteners like I do, you can't beat http://www.boltdepot.com for pricing.

g.

Prices look to be about half that of Mcmaster, good find for general hardware. I dont see any captive press-in inserts thou, probably still go to Mcmaster for those.

[geneb]

Bolt Depot doesn't play the "mystery shipping fees" game that McMaster does.

g.

[BONE]

Bolt Depot doesn't play the "mystery shipping fees" game that McMaster does.

g.

Even better. I assume shipping prices are reasonable also?

[geneb]

They're pretty reasonable. More importantly, they TELL YOU WHAT THEY ARE.

g.

[dtgriscom]

I'm interested in this enclosure, more for venting ABS fumes than for keeping the heat up (although the latter would be a nice bonus). I have some questions:

• I note that the components were designed for a Rostock MAX V1; any idea if they'll work with a V2?
• McM-C has two flavors of 1/4-20 heat-set inserts for plastic: http://www.mcmaster.com/#93365A160 (0.3" long), and http://www.mcmaster.com/#93365A162 (0.5" long): which ones were you using?
• It looks like you made your door openable by hinging the front sheet of plexi to one of the side sheets, and then let it stay closed by friction (no latch). Am I missing something? Any further suggestions, now that you've tried it out for a while?
• I see you printed a box for the temperature controller; any source for the STL?

Thanks,
Dan

[rymnd]

I'm interested in this enclosure, more for venting ABS fumes than for keeping the heat up (although the latter would be a nice bonus). I have some questions:

• I note that the components were designed for a Rostock MAX V1; any idea if they'll work with a V2?
• McM-C has two flavors of 1/4-20 heat-set inserts for plastic: http://www.mcmaster.com/#93365A160 (0.3" long), and http://www.mcmaster.com/#93365A162 (0.5" long): which ones were you using?
• It looks like you made your door openable by hinging the front sheet of plexi to one of the side sheets, and then let it stay closed by friction (no latch). Am I missing something? Any further suggestions, now that you've tried it out for a while?
• I see you printed a box for the temperature controller; any source for the STL?

Thanks,
Dan

- I don't think the top brackets will work for the V2, since the clearances are different. The top brackets are meant to sort of hook onto the belt tensioning blocks, and they drop in from above, which I don't think you can do for the V2
- I'm using a combination of both, actually, but only because I happened to have both. It really shouldn't matter. I believe some other people on this forum have just printed smaller holes and screw the bolts in w/o any inserts
- Yep, no latch. Just stays shut due to friction between the panel and the top/bottom of the machine. I was originally going to implement gaps in the brackets so that I could embed some magnets to hold the door closed, but I never got around to it.
- I attached the stl for the box. Honestly, you don't need the temperature controller. Without any sort of proper insulation (aside from some painter's tape), the heated bed alone (at 85C) will get the enclosure up to 33-35C. Using the lamp w/ the heated bed, I've gotten the internal temperature as high as 47C, but no higher.

If you decide to go w/ a heated lamp, I would be careful that you don't park your effector right below it after jobs, especially if you have any 3D-printed components there. I usually modify my g-code so that the effector just lifts slightly after a job completes, instead of zero-ing. Also keep in mind that if you run the environment too hot, it may weaken any existing JB weld bonds (if you've implemented magnetic joints that way), and it'll probably increase the chances of a clogged hotend if you're using an all-metal hotend. I've yet to have my E3D hotend running for more than 2 hrs w/o a clog when I have my environment over 40C, even w/ the cooling fan running at full.

[mkx]

Have you ever considered using a reflector as part of your heated lamp setup?

[Generic Default]

I've been working on a big delta printer with a heated chamber too. These are a few things I've noted;

-Don't use acrylic, use polycarbonate as the enclosure sheet.
-Don't make any internal parts out of ABS, PLA, or other low temperature plastics.
-Don't use neodymium magnets for ball arms. They start to permanently lose magnetism over 50C.
-Check yo-self with thermal expansion on mating components.
-No glue
-Don't expose the acetal bearing covers to heat. They get loose from thermal expansion and creep (form flats on t-slot rail)
-Don't let your belts go over 50C. Bad stuff starts to happen.
-Don't bother printing PLA. Why do you need a heated chamber if you're printing PLA anyway?
-Avoid open cracks in the enclosure material. You lose a lot of heat, and pressure differences pull in cold air near those cracks.


So there is a lot of stuff to consider. Many of the things above can be fixed or ignored by using higher temperature materials, but they cost more. The only material you can really print enclosure parts with that's available to us is polycarbonate, since it's rigid up to higher temperatures. PEI could be a good replacement for wear parts like bearing covers and ball arm cups.

My design keeps the enclosure panels between the T-slot rails and the build plate. The linear carriage almost forms a sliding seal with the polycarbonate enclosure, but it isn't airtight. The linear carriages are half in the hot box, half out. I need to finish building it before I say it's all good though! It should be able to work up to at least 120 C.

By the way, I really like your quick tool changing design!

[mkx]

I've been working on a big delta printer with a heated chamber too. These are a few things I've noted;

-Don't use acrylic, use polycarbonate as the enclosure sheet.
-Don't make any internal parts out of ABS, PLA, or other low temperature plastics.
-Don't use neodymium magnets for ball arms. They start to permanently lose magnetism over 50C.
-Check yo-self with thermal expansion on mating components.
-No glue
-Don't expose the acetal bearing covers to heat. They get loose from thermal expansion and creep (form flats on t-slot rail)
-Don't let your belts go over 50C. Bad stuff starts to happen.
-Don't bother printing PLA. Why do you need a heated chamber if you're printing PLA anyway?
-Avoid open cracks in the enclosure material. You lose a lot of heat, and pressure differences pull in cold air near those cracks.


So there is a lot of stuff to consider. Many of the things above can be fixed or ignored by using higher temperature materials, but they cost more. The only material you can really print enclosure parts with that's available to us is polycarbonate, since it's rigid up to higher temperatures. PEI could be a good replacement for wear parts like bearing covers and ball arm cups.

My design keeps the enclosure panels between the T-slot rails and the build plate. The linear carriage almost forms a sliding seal with the polycarbonate enclosure, but it isn't airtight. The linear carriages are half in the hot box, half out. I need to finish building it before I say it's all good though! It should be able to work up to at least 120 C.

By the way, I really like your quick tool changing design!

I'll probably use Taulman Tritan filament, its Tg is 110C, not as good as PC, but it seems easier to print with.

[mlapaglia]

I took the top and bottom mounts and altered them a bit to work on the rostock max v2. I added some spaces where screw heads are and made the top fit nicely over the top of the tower.

[RegB]

Any chance of getting the structured drawings of these ?
I would just like to see how they are drawn/designed, not that I am likely to "improve" them (-:

[RegB]

@Generic Default; Thanks for the cautionary notes, ESPECIALLY the one about the acetal bearing covers on the cheapskates.
I was on the verge of doing an enclosure, but I think I'll hold off for now.
Still interested, but I'll let other priorities overtake this one.

BTW, I recently had the Z tower cheapskate bearing eccentrics "loosen up", which produced an interesting effect directly opposite the Z tower - what looked like a seam in the part.
The bolts going through the bearings and their eccentric adjusters accepted a bit of tightening - but of course I am SURE that I tightened them down FULLY when I built it {Sure I'm "sure"} (-:

The X and Y carriages were none too tight either, I'm almost believing that the melamine has dried out and shrunk ("shrank" ? "shrinked" ?)

Hmmm; I dislike the eccentric design, I would prefer something with a known pre-load, say a spring behind a SINGLE bearing on one side that is about mid way between two bearings on the opposite side.
Picky, picky...

[dtgriscom]

Hmmm; I dislike the eccentric design, I would prefer something with a known pre-load, say a spring behind a SINGLE bearing on one side that is about mid way between two bearings on the opposite side.
Picky, picky...

I agree; the eccentrics are a pain. But, I'm guessing that, when set up properly, the average bearing/cover loading is quite low, while during rapid motions it can take significant loads without shifting. Switching to a spring would require you to either a) ask the bearings and covers to tolerate significant static loads, or b) slow things down so that the peak force never exceeded your spring force. I doubt there's a good compromise that satisfies both sides of the constraints.


Dan

[RegB]

I saw some replacement aluminum carriages on here recently, gonna look into those b'coz I'm too lazy to design & build something myself (-:

Probably doesn't overcome the acetal covers & high temps issue though... oh well, I certainly don't want to hear metal rollers on metal towers.