Our Military Men and Women

[bot]

I'm not missing any points here. The point is some of you think everyone is responsible for their own destiny. How do you rationalize that with trust-fund kids and other people who have things handed to them? I would say the majority of well-off people started that way, and those that "earned their way up" certainly did so with the help of others.

There was a "golden age" of capitalism, in the 1950s. Since then, productivity has soared, and the working class that slaves away producing has seen NONE of the benefit, while the capitalists at the top exploit this labour of others for their own benefit. Just like slavery can be equated to murder, through metaphor, I believe capitalist wage labour can be equated to theft. It is the theft of the productivity of others.

Now you may say "oh but the capitalist has so much time and money invested in the business, they deserve the fruits of others' labour" I say: bullshit. The only reason the labourers need the capitalist in the first place is the false scarcity created by capitalism and markets.

Some of you use socialism like it's a scary word. Look at history, capitalism is proving to be far scarier.

[redoverred]

I am glad to see someone, anyone, is defending what is right and just in this world. To see other people claim that anyone, regardless of circumstances, can pull themselves up by their bootstraps or some such nonsense is irritating. The ramblings of old, white men who had all of the advantages of society in the 50's through today is irrelevant to today's world. We have all kinds of people that have none of the advantages or opportunities that you had in your golden age of institutionalized sexism and racism. Your generation set society up for the problems of the 21st century. Let go with those wrinkly, weak claws of yours and let the young generation define our future. Your greedy, take-no-prisoners, help no one else attitudes has put the underprivileged of our society closer to desperate poverty and death than any that has gone before.

Somehow, the United States of America had pulled up those who came to it in the past and begged for a chance. America is a different, scarier place than it was in the turn of the century. Now people of your ilk are claiming that a method to equip the lowest of us with the opportunity to eat right, invest in their future, and save for something better is flawed and they should do all of that on an income that barely allows them to survive. For shame, all of you. I am done with this forum now that I know that some of you, whom I previously held in high esteem, seem to be the most ignorant in the ways of the world outside of your safe, mid-western, white, middle class bubble. Have a nice time discussing why your ability to survive with a disability, medicare, or the like is so much different than those who have the disability of being born into a certain class of citizen (dirt poor) or into a certain race (not white). I have a feeling this is going on deaf ears, seeing as how some of the comments here have been how hard it is for a white male to make it in today's world (lol).

Have a nice day, all of you, and may you one day understand what it is to be utterly down and out so that you can see the error of your ways.

[stonewater]

did you not read my post on being down and out and poor and hungry? I was born dirt poor and not white... so stuff it.


I am not old , I am American indian..... mississipi Choctaw nation...... if you must know... so yea tell me about it. your rant about white mans priviledge falls on deaf ears. I think I can safely say that. my nation suffered prejudice that made the slaves look like land owners.

http://www.choctaw.org/

shame on you for assuming that all of lifes problems stem from white mans priviledge. I don't give a rats *ss about the color of your skin, apparently your mind has been bent to believe in evil mean whitey, which I am not. evil, or mean or white.

I don't want a future where society is dependent upon government for anything, and very soon government will be able to provide you with nothing. you are only 9 meals away from starvation setting in, figure out how to take care of yourself without governments help.

socialism is evil, its the degeneration of personal responsibility for your fellow man and relying on someone else to do it for you.

I have compassion on those down and out, I have no compassion for those willing to wallow in pity and blame. anyone needs a hand up I will help.


Tom C

[626Pilot]

I'd love to see the financials of living, eating, and going to school on $18k per year. I'm sure it's possible, but I know that I couldn't do it.

I did it in LA for about $17K/year. This was with student housing, and no loans or grants, at a public university. All it took was spreadsheet software, time, and the pure motivation of knowing that the buck stopped with me. The act of recording my monthly expenditures to figure out what I was actually spending put me far better in touch with my own spending habits than I had ever been before. My default behavior after that was to be stingy with myself, to act as though I had significantly less money than I did. I didn't go to Starbucks anymore, but made my own stuff at the college housing place. Eating at restaurants was rare (but not fast food, which I regret).

In spite of this, I was still able to upgrade my computer every two years, and at the end I had enough money left over to afford flight training. That was over six grand. I have more money now, but I still act as though I don't.

Yeah, this is making me feel very uncomfortable reading all of this. I have the sense that a lot of you do not know what it is like to live with a low-paying job, and how impossible it is to "just get yourself educated and get a better job."

Think it's bad now? It will get worse and worse. Changes that compel small businesses to cut staff or simply close up shop are bad for that whole sector of the economy - bosses, employees, and customers alike. These effects will ripple to other sectors of the economy. If enough stores close, that's one less driver and one less truck UPS has a justification to pay for. That guy's job is gone, and one or more of the fleet mechanics will have fewer hours as well. Down the line, B2B sellers will have fewer customers, and therefore less motivation to maintain as many employees.

Don't make the mistake of thinking there's anything rational guiding this process. The public servants don't care about this at all, as long as they keep getting elected. Their lust for power, status and money is what draws them to these jobs, and is also what makes them unsuitable to govern. I learned this from writing letters to them. They don't care. When I looked them up, I saw all the expensive colleges they went to, elitist groups they belong to, the people they marry who are just like them, etc. They are not here for us. They are here for themselves.

You should all be ashamed of yourselves [...] I am seriously 100 percent going to quit this forum and company if this shit isn't removed immediately.

We're just having a conversation here. You don't have to agree with everybody, and everybody doesn't have to agree with you. You can have your opinion, and other people can have theirs. I think we have enough cohesiveness as a group to talk about this without it getting personal.

OH GOD! We'll have to ensure that our fellow humans are able to live above the poverty line? WHAT MADNESS!

This is not such an easy question. Over the years I've had a few friends who used welfare, unemployment insurance, or both. They trusted me enough to either game these systems in ways that were obvious to me, or to just state outright that they were doing so. This was the case for every friend I had who was drawing either kind of benefit. The impulse to mooch and draw benefits rather than disturb yourself to get up and go to work is apparently quite strong! How do we support people who are actually operating at capacity and still not making it, without letting others parasitize taxpayers so they can play John Madden all day? Indeed, is it even okay for us to coerce one adult to pay for another adult's problems, in the first place? This is a hard question. We all parasitize other species, plant and usually animal as well. When is it okay for us to coerce others of our own kind to give up their resources for our own benefit?

[626Pilot]

For shame, all of you. I am done with this forum now that I know that some of you, whom I previously held in high esteem, seem to be the most ignorant in the ways of the world outside of your safe, mid-western, white, middle class bubble.

Ah! I didn't see this before. If you ever post here again, you will have made a liar of yourself. I hope it was worth it. There are others here who would agree with your viewpoint, but you're leaving them behind with the rest.

[IMBoring25]

How in the world does it logically follow that because some have a harder path to success than others that they should be propped up, made comfortable in the bottom quintile, and thereby virtually guaranteed to have no motivation whatsoever to try to change their lot in life?

When the government reduces the reward for trying to better oneself, fewer people will try to do so. When the government takes actions to reduce the consequences of poor decisions, they incentivize the making of poor decisions. No policy happens in a vacuum.

Asians don't seem to have the same struggles with "white privilege" as other minority groups. It's almost like a family unit that values education and self-improvement is a better way to a higher income quintile than crying to Uncle about how unfair the system is. If you really want to reduce "white privilege," redistributionist policies are the wrong path. You have to attack the actual causes of the problem as it stands now...Cultures that actively discourage ethics, good decision-making, and work ethic and point outwardly for excuses for the state of things.

[626Pilot]

I am not old , I am American indian..... mississipi Choctaw nation...... if you must know... so yea tell me about it. your rant about white mans priviledge falls on deaf ears. I think I can safely say that. my nation suffered prejudice that made the slaves look like land owners.

http://www.choctaw.org/

Before I start in on what I want to say, I wish to acknowledge the fact that I'm talking about something some of my ancestors did to yours, that your people were unfairly treated, and that I have drawn direct benefits from this unfair treatment. I want to make it clear that I respect this fact, and that I wish to give no offense.

When any American citizen starts in on "checking your privilege," I have to wonder how quick they would be to check their own. Anyone who lives in the continental US, outside a reservation, is living on land that was taken through coercion and force. American citizens have for generations derived direct benefits from this violence, bloodshed and misery, that came on the backs of countless people who didn't owe a single atom of what was taken. Would these US citizens have their families trade places with someone on the Rez? Live in a drafty clapboard house, while a Native American family sits in their split-level, enjoying their A/C and watching Netflix on their plasma TV? Deal with the Bureau of Indian Affairs, or whatever it's called now, and realize that it IS possible for a government to care even less about them than they thought possible?

Such talk is mostly ill-considered, a reflection of what others in their social group are saying. They unconsciously parrot what the group says in order to improve their own status within it - a perfectly normal human behavior, but with bad consequence in someone who doesn't realize what actually motivates them to do it. For justification, they tell themselves a story that they are righteous, and that the Other is evil. It's so easy to shout from the rooftops what is Right and Good and Just when your words incur NO personal cost, and compel you to make NO changes in your own life, whatsoever. The reward is in being bellicose, and in being seen to be bellicose, rather than in actually FIXING anything.

[bot]

This thread is full of delusional people that were born into better circumstances than others.

The reason that millions of Americans are tired and hungry and poor is not because they haven't "pulled up their boot straps." It's not simply a matter of them "going out and getting an education."

This thread proves very well how little education many of you have been able to go out and get yourselves.

[stonewater]

@626

no offence taken or even perceived.I don't need an apology, thanks to the white man I have the highest standard of living in the known world. I am in the top 15 percent of wealthy people on this planet just by being in the states. I do not really want anything from anyone. reparations, my lands back, I do not care. wars have been fought for centuries, men have done evil to men for millennia. just look at the number of black tribes in Africa who sold the captives from the tribes they were at war with into slavery to whites. we can only be good to each other from now on, each day is an opportunity to bless and not curse.

Indians killed each other for centuries before they decided to kill the white man. he was an invader, did not honor his treaties and the government to this day refuses to pay for its oil leases as it should.

the pilgrims came for religious freedom, the indian died from smallpox. only Squanto was left as his entire tribe was wiped out by disease.

Genghis khan raped and pillaged thruout Europe, before that it was rome, before them Greece... war bloodshed and evil have followed men for centuries.


the lesson all men can learn from the American Indian experience is that you don't trust anyone else with your welfare or well being.

don't trust the government to have your best interest at heart. it does not! sometimes you cannot even trust your tribal elders, as they get greedy and selfish just like everyone else.

do not trust men who think they know what you need and want more than you do. just ask those under the hand of stalin and lennin and pol pot.

there were a couple of kids where I work in their early 20's they were talking about how awesome it was they could get food stamps... young single, could work 4 jobs if they wanted to. they were happy working part time, eating off the state and using their paychecks for beer and rent, spent their weekends playing video games and sleeping off hangovers. they were gaming the system. using the resources for themselves, when they did not need it. one of them said "I could not pay for my cell phone if I did not get food stamps"

the whole point of my rant is that you need to learn how to take care of yourself.. if you don't know where to start ask someone who you see doing it.

look what may be coming this year

http://www.economicconfidencemodels.com/


you all better figure out your stuff......

Tom C

[bot]

We have the technology to provide everything we need for everyone by cooperating. Why do some insist on taking this ridiculous individualist attitude?

[stonewater]

This thread is full of delusional people that were born into better circumstances than others.

The reason that millions of Americans are tired and hungry and poor is not because they haven't "pulled up their boot straps." It's not simply a matter of them "going out and getting an education."

This thread proves very well how little education many of you have been able to go out and get yourselves.

there are 2 kinds of education, one you pay for one you live. my education is life..... my thoughts and philosophy is shaped by a careful study of the human condition and what to avoid. you are right its not simple, its HARD!! its DIFFICULT, its TIRING. it may KILL you to try. do you realize what you are saying? that there are some people no matter what that are just too dumb, too poor, their circumstances are just so bad. that their only hope is for someone to come along and take my hard earned money away from me by the force of law and give it to them.

that is the most racist, bigoted thing I have ever heard. you are saying if you are not white, lets say African American and were born in the projects, that there is no hope for them to ever succeed? that the cards are so stacked against them because of the color of their skin or the place of their birth they are damned to a life of poverty and welfare...

you my friend are just wrong. and life does not give everyone a break, sometimes you need to kick the snot out of it and choke it till it coughs it up for you.

Tom C

[stonewater]

We have the technology to provide everything we need for everyone by cooperating. Why do some insist on taking this ridiculous individualist attitude?

Because some cooperate more than others, and some do nothing at all expecting their share because it is for the common good. you need to study the Jamestown colony and its first few years. your socialist polemic was tried and most people starved. everyone assumed everyone else was gonna grow enough food for them... so no one took the time to even grow enough for themselves. if I grow enough for myself I will have more than enough to share, to trade to barter. rugged individualism is what brings about a rising economy, a robust workforce and innovation.


atlas is shrugging as we speak.

Tom C

[626Pilot]

We have the technology to provide everything we need for everyone by cooperating. Why do some insist on taking this ridiculous individualist attitude?

It isn't ridiculous to be individualistic today. We grow up in an environment that rewards it strongly. Our primary job is to keep ourselves alive, so what we do is going to be bent around that. Before the agricultural revolution, which is one of the most harmful things that ever happened to us, we were not individualistic. We were fiercely egalitarian. Everything was shared, everyone was looked after. This was pretty easy because all you had to do was walk into the forest for three hours, and you would have more than enough calories for the rest of the day. If you didn't feel like earning your keep, or if you tried to hoard things, everyone in the group (which was rarely much larger than 150 individuals) would know it and your social status would go in the toilet. This gave everyone a reason to avoid and shun such behavior, and to play fair. If another group was nearby and resources were thin, rather than fighting about it, the groups would just do what they always did anyway, which was to keep walking. You go a few miles up the beach, and now you have a fishery that the other tribe is not tapping.

Interpersonal conflict was common, but war between groups was exceedingly rare. Much is written about our supposedly violent ancestry, but there is zero evidence in what they left behind. Skeletal remains indicate that before the agricultural revolution, people were FAR better fed and had fewer injuries. When the revolution starts, we start seeing evidence of chronic malnourishment to levels not even in the same ballpark as the preceding generations. There was just no reason to go to war with a neighboring tribe on a planet with no more than 1,000,000 humans in total, where you could just stroll for a few hours and be the only ones around for many, many miles.

Some things are better today. Industrialization gives us the Internet and modern medicine and space flight and all that. I would not throw away these benefits. However, I recognize that letting people restrict the access of others to the resources they need can only create conflict, such as that which has characterized our society for so long. That conflict has been one of the variables that has forced us to get smarter. Indeed, we might not be anywhere near as intelligent a species as we are now. Yet, the way things are now is a problem. It's going to get more and more difficult to get a blue collar job going forward. Robots and AIs will cannibalize vast tracts of the current economy, just as elevator panels put countless people out of jobs some decades ago.

There has to be some way to solve this. We can't just jump from what we have now to some pre-agricultural model - it's not feasible. There are too many of us now, the social variables that made that lifestyle work no longer exist in most of the world, and almost all of us have lost our hunter-gatherer cultural values. We have to figure out a way to enable people to provide for themselves, rather than depending on someone else to help them, or depending on the government to make them help at gunpoint. We are so massively interdependent that it's going to choke us if we don't completely overhaul resource acquisition. It just isn't sustainable for humans to prop themselves and each other up in a society where they can't earn money, because technology has erased any need for other people to pay for their talents. For me to have my lifestyle, thousands of other people have to be around to design, manufacture, harvest, process, warehouse, inspect, regulate, sell, transport, etc. all the stuff I need and want. We have to find a way to transition from what we have now, to an economy where you just don't have to rely on all those other people - nor they you.

I don't know how to do all of it, but I do know a lot of people could be hydroponically growing their own vegetables. There are a lot of poor people who subsist on fast food because it's literally cheaper than buying fresh meat and vegetables. If they could grow their own vegetables, that problem would be greatly lessened. Aquaponics is also an option for some, particularly if they like fish. You hook up a fish tank to a hydroponic unit. The fish take dumps into the water, which is then run by the vegetables, which are more than happy to extract the nutrients. The water is sent back to the fishtank after whatever additional filtration is needed, if any, clean and ready for the fish. This has been done for decades, and if you're into tilapia and have enough space, you can have all you want - every day - for almost nothing. (And you thought you had to buy your tilapia from China!)

3D printing and manufacturing can also help close the gap by making it less necessary for us to depend on enormously complex supply chains. If I can 3D-manufacture the vast majority of what I need, then all I need is the manufacturing unit and the base materials it requires. Those materials are EXPONENTIALLY easier to prepare and transport to me than eighty zillion separate finished products. It would also exponentially increase consumer choice, because we could do things like designing our own clothing. I wouldn't have to spend half an hour scrolling through shirts on Amazon to find one that was sort of almost what I wanted. I could just design my own shirt and have a machine cut and sew it for me, and it would really be MY shirt.

Of course, all the jobs that revolve around the current system of centralized manufacturing will be erased. We need to figure out how to do an end-run around this and make sure we don't have starvation and rioting. We need to develop the necessary technology, and then figure out how to disperse it throughout every stratum of society in a time window so narrow that we can outpace the economic effects of peoples' jobs being made obsolete.

If you've seen the film 2001, we're like David Bowman, cursing himself for leaving his helmet behind in the Discovery. We have to figure out how to make our way to the only place that can sustain us, but there's hard vacuum between us and it.

[bot]

Jamestown is certainly an interestingly creative example of "socialism." A lot more creative than the common "examples" of Russia, China, and North Korea.

Individualism didn't land man on the moon. Individualism didn't bring many of the great innovations of the world. Individualism isn't doing anything to HELP us, it's only driving us to "help ourselves" at the cost of others. Capitalism is a game of robbing from the poor to give to the rich.

You see people unwilling to cooperate, I see a system unwilling to give them the chance to.

I'm not advocating for "Socialism" as most of you might think of it. I'm advocating for people to stop holding such ancient, bigoted points of view handed down to them by their grandparents.

[enggmaug]

I totally disagree with this post.
And I feel that politics and religion should stay out of this forum, for the best of it.

I however am not american, and when I read such threads, I feel so proud not to be.

Hopefully, I spent some time in the US, and I know that there are many american citizens who don't worship war, guns and military.

Actually, when I wanted to provocate some americans, I would tell them that I would not trust enough on a military to hand him a gun, but, in the US, everybody has one... so what's the difference ?

Don't misunderstand me, I believe military is necessary. I am glad my country has a army, in order to protect me from yours.
But I would even be happier if we could agree, all together, on forcing dismantelment of all weapons factories. ( And let people fight with only the ones they printed on their Rostock ? )

Call me an idealist, I'll call you a murderer.

Come at me people, and try to explain me how you can both worship Jesus and military.

[KAS]

I totally disagree with this post.
And I feel that politics and religion should stay out of this forum, for the best of it.

I however am not american, and when I read such threads, I feel so proud not to be.

Hopefully, I spent some time in the US, and I know that there are many american citizens who don't worship war, guns and military.

Actually, when I wanted to provocate some americans, I would tell them that I would not trust enough on a military to hand him a gun, but, in the US, everybody has one... so what's the difference ?

Don't misunderstand me, I believe military is necessary. I am glad my country has a army, in order to protect me from yours.
But I would even be happier if we could agree, all together, on forcing dismantelment of all weapons factories. ( And let people fight with only the ones they printed on their Rostock ? )

Call me an idealist, I'll call you a murderer.

Come at me people, and try to explain me how you can both worship Jesus and military.

I really wasn't going to respond to this thread anymore. That was until I read your statement. This thread started as a common gesture to thank the military and teachers with a little humor towards something we see daily. We deal with enough low standard Americans who feel they are entitled somehow to higher compensation with no work ethic. We see people coming from all over the world to put in a little extra effort in work and/or education and make something of themselves that would otherwise not happen in their own country.

Back to your post. You have absolutely no clue and your ideology is flawed. Might not be because of your own ignorance or faults. That very well could of been taught or possibly a trait handed down. You instantly turned a heated conversation of work ethics into the defamation of our people by projecting your "lack of a better work" uneducated belief that everyone worships guns and military.

I'll clue you in on a little life lesson. While you are hidden behind your computer typing words that have no real weight. You're being judged as a immature kid with absolutely no dog in the fight. You are not the protagonist in this conversation; even by typing silly statements like "Come at me people". Next time take a moment and really try to grasp or comprehend what this subject it truly about. If you have insightful opinions, please let us know. You'll never be able to change the minds of others when make uninformed comments like you have.

In your future response to my comments, please take your time. I'll help by giving you a few facts. I have no religion, never really have. I've been in the military 18 years and can't wait to retire. I spent a couple months in Landstuhl, Germany although I didn't see much of France to have an opinion. I'm an avid gun collector and a lifetime member of the NRA. I don't hunt, but I do shoot a lot at paper targets at the local range. I'll undoubtedly support my country regardless of how others perceive my actions. I take great offense when outsiders express their ill-informed feelings towards something that I have a vested interest in.

Now I'm off to work, and eagerly await your reply.

[Nylocke]

[stonewater]

I totally disagree with this post.
And I feel that politics and religion should stay out of this forum, for the best of it.

I however am not american, and when I read such threads, I feel so proud not to be.

Hopefully, I spent some time in the US, and I know that there are many american citizens who don't worship war, guns and military.

Actually, when I wanted to provocate some americans, I would tell them that I would not trust enough on a military to hand him a gun, but, in the US, everybody has one... so what's the difference ?

Don't misunderstand me, I believe military is necessary. I am glad my country has a army, in order to protect me from yours.
But I would even be happier if we could agree, all together, on forcing dismantelment of all weapons factories. ( And let people fight with only the ones they printed on their Rostock ? )

Call me an idealist, I'll call you a murderer.

Come at me people, and try to explain me how you can both worship Jesus and military.

I do not worship the military, that would be inane, as far as Jesus, your understanding of him is pretty flawed obviously.

interesting, coming from france.... remember Normandy? you would still be saying heil hitler if it wasn't for the evil gun loving americans and brits, my ancestors died so you could sit at your computer and type hate.

I wonder how many people would be dead at Charlie hebo if they would have had a few weapons for self defense ? that policeman would not be dead if he could have shot back. without a means to protect yourself you become a nice juicy target. there are only 3 kinds of people in this world, sheep wolves and sheepdogs. you are prey or predator or protector.

you may have heard what happened in texas, with the 2 gunmen trying to kill for islam because someone wanted to draw mohammed. was a stupid idea, but you see the response, that is what is coming your way more and more.

islam is coming to france and you will be overrun unless you defend yourself from them. the caliphate is coming.....

I would not call you an idealist, I would call you deceived. never do evil men and tyrants willingly agree to lay down their arms. when do criminals suddenly decide not to do bad things.

the only reason Ghandi's revolution was successful is the brits did not have the stomach to crush the rebellion with force, they knew intrinsically that the natives were right, that morally they would be guilty of murder. now look at china and what peaceful rebellion looked like in Tiananmen square... it looks like people being crushed by tanks.

[geneb]

This has gone on long enough. This is a 3D printing forum.

g.