Heated bed cannot reach temp

[Tincho85]

Hi guys, I've added 1 more black and yellow... no major improvements noted.

But then, changed the Bed PID Max Value to 255 (it was 230) and now it takes:
08min 43sec to reach 90ºc
13min 14sec to reach 100ºc
20min 54sec to reach 110ºc
28min 10sec to reach 115ºc
(did the test with a cardboard on the bed while it heats up).



I'm happy for now, it's heating much more faster with the EEPROM change, but one of these days I will be buying a 600w PSU and see if it makes a difference.


Thanks for all the help.
Martin

PS: where can I measure the voltage at the Rambo Inputs? There is now room for the probes to fit.
(agrrr... it's realy hard to explain myself in english, hope you understand what I meant)


EDIT: I've a Rostock MAX V1 with a R2 Onyx bed

[Polygonhell]

You can just use the screws that you tighten down on the incoming wires

[nitewatchman]

Outstanding, glad that yopur times are more reasonable.

The PID MAX of 230 verses 255 explains the excessive voltage drop.

CNC machines have the annoying habit of doing exactly what you tell them to do, not what you want them to do.

[Tincho85]

You can just use the screws that you tighten down on the incoming wires

oh.. thank you, I wasn't thinking out of the box ^^

Measured the voltage at the Rambo inputs with:
Hotend + Bed + Peek Fan + Led Ring = 11.01VDC (it was 10.96 but it raised a bit after 1 min)


Should I try and change my PSU? or it's normal to have these values?

Thanks.
Martin

[khpeter]

Just completed the build of Rostock Max v2 and think I have the same issue. Possibly not as bad as some of the others but it is not right. It is taking forever to reach 90 degrees for the first print. More than an hour and it is still climbing but the curves are almost parallel I was holding at 89 degrees when I put two paper dinner napkins on the platform. 15 seconds later the warning bell went off. I took the paper off immediately and it is now printing the first part. Yoo-Hoo.

It still needs more power but it does function. Just.

[Tincho85]

I'm about to try with this PSU, Sentey EPP650-PS 650w:
http://www.sentey.com/en/epp650-ps
A friend of mine bought it for his new pc, but he is going to use bigger one... so

"ROBUST SINGLE +12V RAIL: The Essential Plus Power features a single dedicated +12V rail, that simplifies component installation by having all the power on a single line, avoiding having to manually balance component load on multiple rails, thus providing greater compatibility and is ready for the latest generation of graphic cards." = thicker wire?

Will it work? has anyone tried this one?
All suggestions, tips are welcome.

[Eaglezsoar]

The Sentey EPP650-PS 650w will work fine. The most difficult task is getting it mounted.
You should notice a large difference in heating times for the heated bed, if necessary you could add
another yellow wire to the heat bed input along with a black wire for ground.
Good luck with this supply.

[nitewatchman]

I think that this is very good looking supply. It is a 12vDC Single Rail design which will allow full output to be directed to any wire or pairs of wire. For the hot bed bring as many 12VDC wires into the terminal as you can comfortably fit into the Rambo terminal or solder splice or use the Wago Lever splice to bring four together to a single 2.5 mm wire and take that to the Rambo board.

This supply looks really well built. Mounting should not be an issue since the ATX standard, while loose, does control the physical aspects well. My RM750 fills the cavity but mounted up and fit with no issues at all.

[Tincho85]

Hello, I need some help please...

After 2 hours of fighting with my printer, I've finally installed the new PSU. But the printer turns off after 2 seconds.
So I unplug it from the Rambo, turned it on again and it stays on...

Checked the voltage, 12.35VDC and checked all wires, nothing seems on shortcut... I really don't know how to continue.
Any help would be appreciated.

Martin.

[Tincho85]

MY BAD!

It doesn't turn off after a few seconds, it turns off when I try to run any command.
I can connect it using Repetier Host, but when I run g28 or try to turn on the hot end it turns off.

This happens using repetier and by manual control via the lcd menu.

[Eaglezsoar]

MY BAD!

It doesn't turn off after a few seconds, it turns off when I try to run any command.
I can connect it using Repetier Host, but when I run g28 or try to turn on the hot end it turns off.

This happens using repetier and by manual control via the lcd menu.

You do have the green and black wires connected together, right?
You can also plug in an old drive onto the supply to put a load on the +5 wires. Some supplies require
a load on the +5.

[nitewatchman]

Perhaps this power supply needs a load on the 5VDC and/or 3.3VDC rails to operate. You might try to add a load. I recall that you tried a fan before, perhaps than or even a greater load if you have one (old disk Drive)?

Sounds like when any load is applied the power supply folds over and shuts down.

[Tincho85]

Hi guys, yes green and black are connected to the toggle switch.

I've connected a fan to the 5v rail (its a 12v fan but its ok right?), nothing changed.
Tomorrow I'll try to get another one to add some load to the 3v rail and see how it goes.


Just to be sure, I've recently connected back my old PSU, it works... so there's definitely something wrong with my new one.


Does the configuration.h needs to be changed or something to make a 650w PSU work?

[Eaglezsoar]

Hi guys, yes green and black are connected to the toggle switch.

I've connected a fan to the 5v rail (its a 12v fan but its ok right?), nothing changed.
Tomorrow I'll try to get another one to add some load to the 3v rail and see how it goes.


Just to be sure, I've recently connected back my old PSU, it works... so there's definitely something wrong with my new one.


Does the configuration.h needs to be changed or something to make a 650w PSU work?

No, nothing would need to be changed in the firmware.

[Tincho85]

Hi guys, yes green and black are connected to the toggle switch.

I've connected a fan to the 5v rail (its a 12v fan but its ok right?), nothing changed.
Tomorrow I'll try to get another one to add some load to the 3v rail and see how it goes.


Just to be sure, I've recently connected back my old PSU, it works... so there's definitely something wrong with my new one.


Does the configuration.h needs to be changed or something to make a 650w PSU work?

No, nothing would need to be changed in the firmware.

THanks^^.


Maybe this wont change anything, I really don't know about electronics, but Im going to connect the heatead bed using the +12V2 wires, and the Mosfets, Motors using the +12V1.
Black wires come all from the same place.

Btw... still trying to figure out what a robust 12v single rail is.... or which one
http://www.sentey.com/en/epp650-ps

[Polygonhell]

Hi guys, yes green and black are connected to the toggle switch.

I've connected a fan to the 5v rail (its a 12v fan but its ok right?), nothing changed.
Tomorrow I'll try to get another one to add some load to the 3v rail and see how it goes.


Just to be sure, I've recently connected back my old PSU, it works... so there's definitely something wrong with my new one.


Does the configuration.h needs to be changed or something to make a 650w PSU work?

If your PSU needs a load on the 5V rail a fan will be nothing like enough, most require a significant current draw, usually a 5ohm resistor, that's a 5W draw. Usually an optical drive is enough.

[nitewatchman]

Btw... still trying to figure out what a robust 12v single rail is.... or which one
http://www.sentey.com/en/epp650-ps

12123.jpg

Single Rail means that all the 12VDC comes from a single supply source so in theory it shouldn't matter which wire you pick electrically they are the same. When a p/s has two or more rails, it means that there are multiple 12VDC supplies in the box that when paralleled equal the rated wattage or current output (amps).

I would agree with Poly in that the fan is not likely enough load, this is why I suggested an old disk drive or something similar.

Sorry that you are having so much trouble.

[Tincho85]

I've managed to get an old hard drive and connected it via the sata input:

with this Im covering the 5vdc and the 3vdc input right? (2 black, 1 yellow, 1 red, 1 orange)


The printer keeps shutting down when I try to run any command.
Im lost




EDIT:
I see that this PSU has a brown wire, unlike the PSU that came with the printer.

Maybe I need to use it? I think that this PSU has a lot of protections and thats why it keeps shutting down.

[nitewatchman]

If it goes to the large ATX connector, which pin is it?

[Tincho85]

If it goes to the large ATX connector, which pin is it?

It goes to the mother, if that's what you are asking.

yup, i like to take pics


EDIT1:
Did some google, it seems that the brown wire is "+3.3 V sense"
dunno what that means, the spanish article from wikipedia is very poor.


EDIT2:
source: http://reprap.org/wiki/PCPowerSupply
Voltage Sensing

The +3.3 VDC remote sensing wire (brown or orange) is connected directly to the orange +3.3 VDC at pin 11 of the power connector (pin 13 if a 2x12). The sense wire will usually be of a lighter gauge (22 AWG) than the power wires (16 or 18 AWG) and its purpose is to monitor the voltage at the connector in order to provide feedback for voltage compensation by the supply.

If your PS has two wires attached to the same pin on the motherboard power connector, orange +3.3 VDC and a brown sense wire on Pin 11 for example, then these two wires should be joined when you make your conversion. Some power supplies may also have sense wires running to the +5 VDC and +12 VDC connector pins. If there are multiple sense wires, then they will usually be of the same color as the primary supply wire, but of a lighter wire gauge. These sense wires will also terminate in a different location on the PS printed circuit board than the heavier supply lines. As with the +3.3 sense wire, these additional wires should also be connected to the corresponding supply lines. Failure to complete these connections may result in your power supply not latching into a Power_On mode when switched on.
-- Main.SimonMcAuliffe - 01 Jul 2006


So I need to connect the brown wire and the orange together??
Sorry if Im too annoying, but I dont want to blow this new PSU or the Rambo board.

[nitewatchman]

Yes, I believe this to be true. The brown wire monitors the 3.3VDC output and provides feedback to the P/S to regulate the rail.

To be cautious I would connect the sense wire (brown) to a 3.3VDC wire (orange) with the 12VDC input wires unplugged from the Rambo and with the disk drive connected to SATA plug. If this seems to operate okay, TURN OFF the power supply and reconnect to the Rambo.

I will keep my fingers crossed that this solves the issue.

[Tincho85]

hi nite, I did what you said. When I join brown+orange it shuts down (fortunately it protected against shorts ^^)
But then I looked closely and find out that the brown wire was crimped together with a black one.

Then I turned on the PSU, joined brown+black and it didnt turn off!!!
So now, Im about to try it with the printer. Wish me luck


EDIT: nope.. same, it turns off.
Im done for today, tomorrow I will buy some halogen 12V light bulb and connect them into the 5V rail.
Lets see if its a base load problem.

Many PC PSUs (not all) require a base load on the 5V rail to work properly. Connecting an old CD drive or a 12V light bulb (into the 5V rail, see picture) are well proven methods to get this load.

Wether you need a base load or not has to be tried. If even tiny loads on the 12V rail cause the PSU to turn off, a base load is required. Also, a base load never hurts. http://reprap.org/wiki/PCPowerSupply

PS sorry I didnt start a new thread, jsut realized that now.

[Tincho85]

I've connected one light bulb, like the reprap wiki says, and it turns off.
Im officialy lost now.

Any ideas?

[nitewatchman]

So am I!

The only think I can suggest is to try to isolate and determine if a specific circuit or section results in the shut down. With the P/S turned off disconnect all inputs and outputs from the Rambo leaving only the 12VDC power supply wires connected to the lower 4 terminal (disconnect the heated bed inputs). Power up and again try the commands that resulted in a shutdown. If the P/S shuts down, I don't know how to make it work.

If it does not shut down, make sure it is powered off and connect the heated bed inputs. If it still does not shut down repeat adding the Thermistors back in and try again. Follow this approach by adding circuits until the culprit is found.

[Tincho85]

Hi nite, thank you very much for all the help.
Still cant make it work... one of these days Im taking it to someone that repairs psu and check for help there.

Will come back with updates.




EDIT July 29
Not happy to announce that Ive been defeated by the Sentey PSU. I will send it to re wire all the plugs and then sell it...

Today Ive bought for $30 a generic 600w psu with 2 fans. It Looks awfull but works like charm.
Now its taking 2min less to get to 90ºc. I added an aluminum disc beneath the boro glass too.

Thanks again for the support.
Martin