Possibly starting a Max Metal build

[TheRealRocketBurns]

So Ill explain why I marked possibly. I built a stock max V2 about a year back, and have been very happy with it. It has gone through many design iterations and has lots of new features. I just feel that the current frame, as wonderful as it is, is a bottleneck to my progress in modding and working with it; it would be awesome to have a nice, clean, open metal frame to work with. From every ones experience, is the Trick Laser metal max build worth it? what kind of improvements are you guys getting? Thanks in advance!

EDIT: I have access to a laser cutter, second 3D printer, Tormach mill, etc. at local fab lab
EDIT 2: (I swear this is the last edit ) I would be converting my current V2

[mhackney]

Mine is still a build in progress but I have assembled the frame and can say this: it is extremely rigid and very well designed. I can't imagine a better design or manufacturing quality for a delta frame this large!

It is a great platform for modding. My RMax v1 is highly modified and I honestly don't know how I would get better quality parts but I am trying a few things on the MetalMax build to test, including:

Linear rails (see my Metal Max build thread) which is a significant mod.

.9° stepper motors

aluminum tubing delta arms with custom ball cups (I have experience with Traxxis ends, magnetic ends, etc and of these, I think the ball cups offer an excellent option for minimal backlash like magnetic arms without the "pop apart" issues they can have). The aluminum tubing is much more rigid than equivalent weight CF tubing.

These are the items that affect motion control, everything else (electronics, firmware, heated bed, print surface, hot end, etc) I already have what I consider to be state of the art.

[TheRealRocketBurns]

Are the .9 degree Motors worth it? I have heard a lot about them, both good and bad. My apologies for brevity as I am on my smartphone, but I will definitely be taking a look at your build thread, I've already perused several others.

[mhackney]

Define "worth it". You sacrifice top end speed (potentially - this is primarily a function of if your controller/stepper drivers can handle the higher step pulse frequency, Duet can, and power supply voltage) for higher resolution/precision. The argument on torque is confusing and I can't find any definitive scientific data that leans one way or the other. I do know that It's a trade off and only your application dictates if it's worth it. The prices of the .9° steppers has decreased so much that cost is not really a major issue.

David Crocker has published a bit on this and sees some minor improvements in print quality (with photos):

https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com/201 ... a-printer/

https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com/201 ... d-printer/

[ccavanaugh]

I'm on my 2nd Trick Laser build right now.

Can't say enough about build accuracy and stability of the machine. First machine was build with 1.8° steppers and the 2nd one get .9° steppers.

I would recommend the Duet controller over the Smoothie based on first hand experience, and the Rambo will work fine if you want to reuse it.

[TheRealRocketBurns]

I have seen the duet recommended, but not in comparison to the smoothie. Having used the smoothieboard, I have found it to be pretty nice. What was your experience? What more does the duet offer?

I read over the info on the .9 steppers, as I am converting my existing printer I don't think it will be worth it.

Whats the verdict on the trick laser CF arms vs. the CF and magnet ball ends vs the new SeeMeCNC arms?

[mhackney]

There is plenty written comparing Smoothie to Duet. Duet firmware calculates each point of movement, not segments like ALL other firmwares. Duet firmware has the fastest and most reliable auto calibration. You can do everything over the built in web interface now, including uploading new firmware. No more USB or removing CF card nonsense. The Duet Web Control is built in and very, very nice. I've move all my printers from Smoothie to Duet except for the mini kossel.

[TheRealRocketBurns]

Ill see what I can find out about the duet once i get home. From your brief summary it sounds pretty good.

Edit: Yeah duet is pretty sick, ill switch to that

[TheRealRocketBurns]

Also does anyone have any pics of prints from their metal MAX?

[mhackney]

Rocket, it would be very difficult to see any print quality difference in even the best photo. I have tried (and I have very high end photo equipment and experience in product photography) to capture the print quality difference between RepRapFirmware on Duet and Smoothieware on Smoothieboard. I can physically see the difference (Duet is nicer) but can't capture it. The difference between a metal frame Max and an original melamine max is likely going to be even more subtle. I'm still building one because "it makes sense" that the rigidity will translate to better part quality and/or reliability. The MetalMax was designed to be easy to move parts from an existing Rostock Max. I'm building mine from scratch as I want to updated literally everything!

[TheRealRocketBurns]

Yeah, a lot of what you have said makes sense, I can't wait to see yours when it is done. I have done more research into the duet board, and just the fact that it has an expansion for extra Motors and heaters is already of Interest. Again, my apologies if I appear in curt, I have not had much time to write lengthy posts. I'm in the process of compiling a spreadsheet of all the parts I will need to get, and we'll link to the Google Docs here soon to ensure I am getting all the right parts. Thanks so much for all of your help so far!

[mhackney]

No worries, happy to help as you know.

cheers,
Michael

[TheRealRocketBurns]

Started a quick spreadsheet of materials, what can I do to decrease costs?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Also can I use my own aluminum extrusions with the Metal Max frame? I want a stupidly tall build height

EDIT: yellow highlighted items are things I have questions about, see my comments on the sheet

[TheRealRocketBurns]

To keep things nice and tidy I started a new thread for the actual build. Mods feel free to delete this one.

new thread:
http://forum.seemecnc.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=10652

[bob64]

The cf arms from TL comes with the 0lash straps. No, you can't use your own extrusion with the frame. They're machined to work with the frame.

[bvandiepenbos]

Mold is in production right now for custom ball-cup rod ends I have designed as a replacement for the Traxxas. We will be building CF arms with these and will be available separately for retrofitting to existing CF arms or building your own.
They fit 3/8" balls so the stock SeeMeCNC barbells will work.
I expect the first run of parts to be in hand in 3 weeks.

[bvandiepenbos]

@mhackney
So you think aluminum tubing is stiffer than CF tube per weight?