Welcome to the SeeMeCNC Community

Hi all,

I'm interested in hearing about new users of the Rostock Max. I'm looking at buying one and have been on the fence for a while now. Figure I should go straight to the source - both positive & negative experiences welcome.

In particular I'd love to hear about:

1. How are your prints coming out?
2. How fast are you printing? (Perimeters/infill)
3. How difficult was it to make it to your first print? (both build experience and software perimeters)
4. How much tweaking are you needing to do to? (hardware & software)

Cheers.

theverant wrote:Hi all,

I'm interested in hearing about new users of the Rostock Max. I'm looking at buying one and have been on the fence for a while now. Figure I should go straight to the source - both positive & negative experiences welcome.

In particular I'd love to hear about:

1. How are your prints coming out?
2. How fast are you printing? (Perimeters/infill)
3. How difficult was it to make it to your first print? (both build experience and software perimeters)
4. How much tweaking are you needing to do to? (hardware & software)

Cheers.

I'm still messing around with my settings, but I'm very pleased with it so far.

Short version on print quality, is I'm still having some minor issues with dribble from the Bowden based extruder, but the layer alignment is as good as I've seen.
Dimensions look to be about as accurate as any hobby printer.
I was unable to get my extruder to suck/prime and significant distance at speed without the filament buckling at the entrance to the Bowden tube, I've since printed a plastic guide that sit's over the securing nut, and prevents the buckling, so I now have to spend some time tweaking the settings.

Calibration is poorly explained in the manual, and it would be a lot easier with a dial gauge, it basically involves aligning the 3 endstops, which unfortunately comes down to measure adjust home, measure adjust.....

I'm a programmer, so the firmware thing has never really been an issue, the default settings are close, but they require some tweaks, most notable motor direction, and Z height, though I have also turned down the digipot settings slightly. I also commented out some spam that's printed to the console by the firmware, that was added to debug the delta movement code.

One subtle issue is that issues present differently on delta style printers than on conventional printers, so when debugging a print issue experience doesn't always help.

I've built 4 printers now, and the RostockMax was easily the most complete "kit", documentation is OK. It took me perhaps 15 hours to complete. The only significant issue I had was blowing a fuse on the Rambo board. Having said that it is like all the other hobby printers, it's work to assemble and it isn't point and click printing, if you've ever built a printer before you know pretty much what you'll have to deal with.
If you've never built a printer before there is the whole understanding what good looks like for the first layer battle to fight, getting good adhesion with appropriate layer height. One of the not very newbie friendly parts is having to set the ZOffset in the firmware, once it's set you rarely touch it, but any minor change requires modifying and re downloading the firmware, it's less than 40 seconds total, but some people don't seem to like editing it. I run my MendelMax the same way, so it's not much of an issue for me.

As for speeds, I'm still messing with settings, I'm not being particularly agressive right now, 30-50mm/s for perimeters and 70mm/s for sparse infill (though I use hexagonal infill which has to be printed more slowly), that's about the same as I print on my MendelMax most of the time.
I've run 0.2mm layer heights for most of the prints, and calibration objects upto 0.3mm and down to 0.15mm (you could certainly go lower, though calibration starts to be an issue), there is a lot of pressure required to extrude from the SeeMeCNC hotend and I have to run my plastic perhaps 10 degrees hotter than I am used to.

The Rostock MAX is really my first printer that I've ever built. I had a previous failed attempt to get the original Rostock assembled and running. I found the original Rostock to be very flimsy, due to the usage of printed parts, and lack of a rigid frame to hold everything together.

The Rostock MAX is absolutely the funnest project I've ever had the pleasure of building. My best friend and I bonded over a weekend while assembling it. At the time we assembled it, a comprehensive assembly guide didn't exist, but the UStream videos were awesome at explaining how to put it together.

I know nothing about calibrating 3D printers, so I'm still using trial and error to get good prints from the Rostock MAX. This however is not a flaw with the printer, it's simply my lack of knowledge of the subject. I want to emphasize that the Rostock MAX is a beautifully engineered machine. The guys that designed it really focused on every detail, from routing holes for wiring, to hinged access doors for keeping things tidy. They've even thought ahead by including mounting holes for upgrades or alternate controller boards. The cheapskate sliding rail design is so smooth, elegant, and ingenious.

If you purchase the kit, you can count on having every single thing you need to build a fully functional printer.

The only thing I would say is that this printer takes quite a while to build, and if don't consider yourself very handy or don't enjoy building things with your hands, then this may not be the printer for you.

I absolutely love this printer!

If you don't like the calibration section, I'd love to hear what could make it better. I wrote up the procedure I used to calibrate mine. I thought it was pretty clear.

g.

geneb wrote:If you don't like the calibration section, I'd love to hear what could make it better. I wrote up the procedure I used to calibrate mine. I thought it was pretty clear.

g.

I'm not really criticizing the description, outside if it describing a procedure, but not really describing what you are changing and how the changes affect the motion if the head.
All you are really trying to do is adjust the endstops so the motion of the head is parallel to the bed.
My procedure is a bit different, I measure at 3 points under the towers nominate one as master adjust the other 2, based on the delta from the master, home and repeat. Once I'm done I set the ZHeight. Note also that because we are not measuring exactly under the endstop, the coordinates are not independent.
Initially I tried measuring with digital calipers, but I couldn't get consistent enough readings across the bed to get things set with enough accuracy. The endstops really need to be within 0.05mm of each other, I ended up using M114 and a piece of paper as a feeler gauge to do the measurements.
I then further adjusted them by printing a large square on the bed and looking for thin/thick areas in the extrusion.

What would be really nice would be an easy way to attach a dial gauge without having to remove the hotend.

I'm going to be designing a bracket for a dial gauge this week. It'll attach to one of the outside holes on the platform so you won't need to remove the hot end. I'm not really satisfied with the caliper method either, but I used what I had available at the time.

Once I've got the bracket made, I'll be happy to replace my calibration procedure with yours if you want to write one up. You've obviously got more experience with these machines than I do.

Note that my dial indicator has a mounting lug on the back and that's what I'll be designing for. I got it from Harbor Freight a number of years ago to use with my ShopBot.

Ok, just had an interesting idea - I originally got my dial gauge for squaring the Z axis to the machine bed, but I found that using a 12" bit of music wire bent such that one end fit into the collet and the other was bent down touching the table made for a better tool. You'd rotate the music wire by hand, adjusting the Z carriage until the music wire could travel in a full circle and have the bent end of the music wire the same distance from the machine bed throughout the circumference of the circle described by the music wire. This technique allows me to square up the Z axis to as perfect as humanly possible. (I was told that the Z axis "squareness" would be higher in accuracy than the machine is capable of mechanically)

If I built a little jig that could hold a similarly bent bit of music wire to the platform, wouldn't it perform the same task on the Rostock MAX as it does on my ShopBot? The jig could use the same outer holes I was planning for the dial indicator so you wouldn't need to remove the hot end from the platform. A suitable length of music wire should trace a circle just inside of the towers and not strike the heated bed, Phebe or Onyx...

g.

1. How are your prints coming out?
- so so, I am having a lot of difficulty getting the plastic to stick to the build plate ( w/ and w/out the painters tape). I have tries hotter/ colder hot end, different Build plate temps, extrusion rates, speeds.
- my extruder seems to be working fine I can easily feed it by hand or through Repetier
- I can get most of the Hollower Pyramid done and it looks okay still having issues with the retract and getting some Swiss cheese prints.


2. How fast are you printing? (Perimeters/infill)
- I am runnnig about 75% of the recommended settings usually but i did run the braclet code that was posted in the last couple days and that ran quite well so I am learning my way around CURA hoping that will help some of my issues.

3. How difficult was it to make it to your first print? (both build experience and software perimeters)
- The build was easy especially once that new assembly pdf was released ( especially the electrical portions), and the software is easy enough to navigate and change ( I am a ndesign engineer for an automation company and I write Gcode for a locale Baseball Bat company in my free time, so i am not shy about the push buttons first ask questions later)

4. How much tweaking are you needing to do to? (hardware & software)
- for me alot as noted above in my inability to get the first layer to stick to anything besides bowing up and attaching itself to the extruder head in a nice big blob. I can do that all the time. I have 12 finished pyramid next to me and probably that many in a trash can around here. all stemimng from the subtle changes in repetier I have tried.

All in all it has been a learning experience and I am not quite to the point where I wished I had gotten that Front Mount inter cooler for my car instead, for myself for Christmas, but we will see

mcdaigle wrote:1. How are your prints coming out?
- so so, I am having a lot of difficulty getting the plastic to stick to the build plate ( w/ and w/out the painters tape). I have tries hotter/ colder hot end, different Build plate temps, extrusion rates, speeds.
- my extruder seems to be working fine I can easily feed it by hand or through Repetier
- I can get most of the Hollower Pyramid done and it looks okay still having issues with the retract and getting some Swiss cheese prints.

Almost everyone new to 3d printing goes through this, prints usually fial on the firstblayer, and until you are familiar with what good looks like it can be incredibly frustrating.
Assuming you are printing ABS on tape, set the extruder to 240, and the bed to 70 (on mine that's 100 degrees measured on top of the build surface) and then it's all down to the Z setting,in the firmware.
When printing the first layer if the plastic seems squished, but is rolling off the bed, then the 0 Z is too low, so reduce the Z height setting in the firmware. If it comes out as an obviously round bead and just doesn't stick to the bed it's too high, so increase the Z setting.
Make changes in 0.05mm increments.

If the first layer is inconsistent in the way it goes down then the build plate is not parallel to the motion of the head, and you need to do the calibration step more accurately, if it's close, you can just tweak the endstop screw on the pillar that is closest to the worst area in the first layer.

Hi all.

I use nearly the same calibration method as Polygonhell.

I measure in X0 Y7, X-7 Y-7 and X7 Y-7.

I put a 0.5mm pin up in the warm hot-end, then let it cool off.

I use the manual control to move the hot-end nearly down to the surface, then move the hotend in one of above mentioned positions.

With a piece of paper between the surface and the hotend, I lower the hotend 0.1 mm at a time while moving the paper. When the paper is caught by the pin in the hotend, I write down the Z position.
Then up with hotend 1 cm, move to next position and so on.
Now I take the lowest Z value as my reference. In my case it was at the Z axis.
I then added a number of small painters blue tape on the top of the cheapskaters for the X and Y axis, where the endstop arms hit.
The I make a G28 home, and repeat the procedure.
When the Z is equal for the 3 axis, the calibration is done.

I heat up the hotend, and remove the pin.

I then measure the Z and put it in the firmware.
Smaller adjustment to the Z offset I put in the Slic3r printer setting.

I do not use the screws for adjusting as they are conflicting with the time belt fasteners.
So I only adjust my X and Y axis.

As for any experience with printing objects - not yet.


/Poul

Thanks Polygonhell, for at least confirming that I should be struggling with the first layer, So I got the dial indicator back out and re calibrated, it was within a few thousandths still everywhere I measured. But I have switched to CURA to slice with and that has made all the difference, I am able to lay down a slower fist layer and that appears to be adhering fine, I am now working my way through getting the retraction settings down to a science and playing around with all that CURA has to offer, I am getting much cleaner smoother code. Slicer was very Jumpy and did things that I did not understand. Thanks again for the push to go on.