Building a Rostock Max V2 with a twist, help required.

dmgdispenser · Post by **dmgdispenser** » Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:39 pm

Hello SeemeCNC forums members and moderators,
I recently just ventured into buying a Rostock Max v2, however, the one i purchased (from ebay) comes incomplete. currently it is on it's way to my residence, waiting on the delivery of the product. However from the ebay pictures of the auction, I can visually see there are a few pieces missing and i believe the arms are broken, so I know there will be some parts I will for sure need to buy/upgrade to. I'm basically here asking for any help that you could provide. I've been watching build videos and reading instructions and such from youtube and other websites out there. http://imgur.com/haxgP95 on this picture you can see that there are parts missing, the person before me didn't know how to build or fix it so this is it. On the picture, you can see that the arms are not in good shape, also looks like the other versions of cheapskates, which i know seemecnc sells the newer models and depending on which model exactly i have i might have to buy the kit for the wheels and such too. Also on this picture, it looks to me as if the extruding mechanism is missing, therefore i might need it as well, not 100% sure on that. http://imgur.com/Yvni56Z on this picture, it's a close up of the arms, and the jethead, which of course is missing. So i'm guessing i'm going to need to buy another one to replace, which I would like to ask, what's a good jethead to start off with for this build, this isn't my fisrt 3d printer, but it'll be the first one I will be assembling on my own so I'm not anywhere near a pro, because the cubex was such a terrible printer. http://imgur.com/QpCd0dO this third picture shows the front led is still not broken, the heat bed is there, and all the frame rails are there, along with the wooden base panels being undamaged, which is definitely a good thing!

So, the list i have made so far is :
new arms (I want the ball joint arms)
new jethead
new extruder
I will want to get dampeners for the x-y-z axis
and there are a few other things I've been researching just can't remember the name of them off the top of my head, it's basically a yellow cage for the jethead for a better consistant print.

Any and every input will be appreciated, I should be receiving the printer today, then I will literally disassemble the whole printer to make sure I have a list of What I do have! and then from there I will look up the list of parts given to people in the average put it yourself kit, and see what parts I will be missing, I know that the kit itself is a great printer to start with, but is there any upgrades or MUST HAVE parts or pieces to buy to help the rostock become an even more powerful printer. So far in terms of parts I'm not very familiar, But I will be updating the post with parts that I THINK I WILL NEED TO BUY just to get this working, and will need the help of this community to ensure everything is correct before ordering it, and will be posting my build as it comes together, thank you.

PS: i'll link all the things I will need to buy, and link any articles that i've read/ or video links that I've looked at prior to actually attempting to buy it, fix it, etc. and any upgrades of upgrades that i think are worth doing I will also be post here.

-Best regards
-Tan (Dmgdispenser)

Xenocrates · Post by **Xenocrates** » Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:55 pm

Oh hey. We were actually talking about that printer before. (Geneb said something about CBS for printers)

So, to get it running well, I suggest the following (links to sources will be in spoiler tags)

IM carriages and balljoint arms. You need the new carriages to use the new arms. ~78$ +S/H

Spoiler:

New extruder (Filament driver). You have a couple of choices, at a range of prices.
Cheapest: Ez-struder. What the machine originally shipped with. ~53$ with stepper motor (~35 without)
Mid-range: E3D Titan. Geared, cleanable, easy to work with. ~65$ without stepper (~83 with a stepper)
Best: Bondtech QR. Honestly superior to any other on the market, with a price to match. ~130$ with stepper (I'm not bothering to list a non-stepper price as it want's a geared stepper, and it's easiest to just buy assembled)

Spoiler:

New Hotend. Again, a variety of prices and options. An entire post could be written about this (And many have)
Old faithful: SeemeCNC hotend. Does well at PLA and okay at ABS, but limited to sub 240C temps. Really calls for a threaded thermistor and cartridge heater. ~65$ (+12$~ for a threaded thermistor and the tap, +10$~ for the cartridge heater and grub screw)
Reigning champ: E3D V6. Has some issues with PLA if not well assembled/tuned, can hit 300C easily (even higher with a different temp sensor). High quality, well made. Very adaptable. ~75$. (add the Volcano and a set of nozzles on for +~95$ for maximum capability)
Up and coming: Prometheus. Well enough made. Less issues with PLA than the V6 according to anecdote. High temp capable, stainless nozzles (no brass, so lower thermal transfer efficiency). The most flexible hotend on the market, but finicky to adjust after it's been changed. ~79$. (+77$~ for the full nozzle set)
The Venerable: J-head. Unmatched PLA performance. ABS OK. no chance at higher temps. ~57$. (+50$~ for the other nozzle sizes)
I will add sources later.

Dampners: Astrosyn dampners. ~8$ each, ~24 for the motion axis'.

Spoiler:

Other suggested upgrades:

PEI bed: ~35$. More consistent adhesion, lower temperatures, less warping, near zero maintenance.

Spoiler:

713 maker mount: Probably the best mount for attaching hotends to the max on the market. Looks slick, well machined, very firm. ~35$.

Spoiler:

New layer cooling fans: (I'm getting a bit tired of doing a sourcing song and dance on this bored computer. Will update later)

New PSU: It very likely shipped with the Viotek 450W ATX power supply, which while it works, might be flaky. I suggest either replacing it (It should drop out a hole in the bottom when the nylon screws are removed) or having a spare on hand. Price depends on your priorities (my latest PSU was 157$, as I had a specific, high end one that I wanted, most should be far cheaper).

New belts: It's obviously been abused. I recommend replacing the belts, just in case.

Once you have it in hand, go ahead and get the face plates off, and take some pictures. If you need more help with it, and want it faster, go ahead and send me a PM (Or Mhackney, or Geneb, or any of a number of very knowledgeable people), and we can get you a method to talk to us faster (Skype, Email, or whatever). As I mentioned, I plan to update this post to add source links and prices later, once I'm not on a computer that is annoying to work with (Mac keyboards have worse travel than membrane switches on a CNC it seems like, Bleh)

IMBoring25 · Post by **IMBoring25** » Tue Apr 19, 2016 11:15 pm

With as much as is obviously missing I'd rate it likely the board's gone too. Stock would be a Rambo. Duet is becoming a popular upgrade. Some still like the Smoothieboard.

Post by **geneb** » Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:52 am

If the RAMBo is not included, get a Duet. With the display, it costs more than the RAMBo, but it's an excellent replacement.

g.

Windshadow · Post by **Windshadow** » Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:27 am

Even if the RAMBO is still in place... checkout it out carefully for signs of overheating at the screw terminals and similar problems.... check all 3 fuses check the capacitors for discoloration or swelling... etc.

Given the state of the rest of the machine I would not trust it to be fully functional.

test all of its functions before you rebuild the machine... you don't want to do the rebuild then find out it is Dead.

Because then you will have to disassemble to replace it.

If you know it is Missing or dead or even just damaged in your place I would take advantage of situation by upgrading to the Duet combo.

IMBoring25 · Post by **IMBoring25** » Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:13 pm

If it was built with long enough wires, a board swap shouldn't be a big deal. Pull the LCD panel off the front and pull the panel out that hole, then swap the wires to the new board. With short wires, further disassembly would be required to get access to rewire or solder on wire extensions.

Eric · Post by **Eric** » Wed Apr 20, 2016 1:13 pm

Some of us saw and rated that ebay listing as high risk (see http://forum.seemecnc.com/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=10134).

I hope for your budget that most of the hidden and missing parts are actually included in what you receive. You won't really know what you need until your shipment arrives.

Good luck!

Nylocke · Post by **Nylocke** » Wed Apr 20, 2016 1:57 pm

Seeing that closeup of the effector makes me cringe. How do you mess it up that horridly.

dmgdispenser · Post by **dmgdispenser** » Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:48 pm

Hello guys, thank you for the input, I'll be picking it up tonight from my office to take home to tear down and reassemble. I was very worried about the board not being there, abd if it was there, if it's still on great working condition.
I had already had thoughts of getting the duet board just because I think I could/ use the dual color extrusion quite often.

So I'm going to be opening it tonight, but I did pick up a 750watt corsair psu to replace the stock psu, abd before I order the rest of the parts I'll have to take it apart and do the work on paper to ensure I won't be missing a piece.

dmgdispenser · Post by **dmgdispenser** » Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:26 am

so i opened the package today, i think overall it wasn't so bad.

Spoiler:

overall it was fairly nicely packed, theres peanuts everywhere, and out of everything right now, i can tell, the arms are broken. and there is no print head/extruder and also the bearings are pretty worndown. the circuit boards were still there yay. so far so good.

Post by **geneb** » Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:38 am

Can you post close-up pics of the arms and the bearings? I'm curious to see what that neandertal did to the poor machine.

g.

Nylocke · Post by **Nylocke** » Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:25 am

Looks like they globbered hot snot all over it in an attempt to widen the stance of the arms?

I would advise taking the whole base apart and cleaning up the wiring. Its a real mess under there.

I wrapped mine up with something similar to this. All you need to do is use some heat shrink on the ends and it seals it in nicely.

Alternatively you can use spiral wrap. Its probably easier to put on and to take off, it just takes a while.

For most of the wiring 3mm/1/8" will work great. If you wanna see how it looks check out my build log (Return of the Birch MAX). It really keeps it tidy and bundled.

Windshadow · Post by **Windshadow** » Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:18 pm

this image
[img]http://i.imgur.com/oo3nhUB.jpg[/img]
shows one of the tower stepper cogs in relation to the bearing and they are not quite aligned be sure when you install the dampers that the belts have no problems with side to side alignment caused by what is seen in the photo use blue thread locker when you get it adjusted

nebbian · Post by **nebbian** » Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:39 pm

Nylocke wrote: I wrapped mine up with something similar to this. All you need to do is use some heat shrink on the ends and it seals it in nicely.

Alternatively you can use spiral wrap. Its probably easier to put on and to take off, it just takes a while.

An alternative wrapping solution which I really like is this self closing wire braid:
http://www.jaycar.com.au/Wire%2C-Cable- ... m/p/WH5630

It's very easy to add or remove wiring with this, as you don't need to feed it through from one end. You just slip new wiring through a slit in the braid, and it closes up behind you. It's excellent for things like the effector where (I find) wiring changes often.

dmgdispenser · Post by **dmgdispenser** » Sun Apr 24, 2016 11:35 am

hey guys, here's a quick update with pictures.

geneb wrote:Can you post close-up pics of the arms and the bearings? I'm curious to see what that neandertal did to the poor machine.

g.

First thing's first, @Geneb, here's a close up of the arm's shotty surgery.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/uvADtJA.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/zXuUXoQ.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/2WicSLL.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/2WicSLL.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/JhT3nqH.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/SlRksWw.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/AfhWKgI.jpg[/img]

Yup, the guy really liked to use hot glue, and like... rolled aluminum foil? nonetheless, it was a poor job.

Nylocke wrote:Looks like they globbered hot snot all over it in an attempt to widen the stance of the arms?

I would advise taking the whole base apart and cleaning up the wiring. Its a real mess under there.

I wrapped mine up with something similar to this. All you need to do is use some heat shrink on the ends and it seals it in nicely.

Alternatively you can use spiral wrap. Its probably easier to put on and to take off, it just takes a while.

For most of the wiring 3mm/1/8" will work great. If you wanna see how it looks check out my build log (Return of the Birch MAX). It really keeps it tidy and bundled.

I've taken a few more photos, about two albums, pretty random if you want to check them all out, links are in spoilers.

Spoiler:

Now, here are my other pictures that i Have some weird questions/concerns about.
when i started taking apart the printer, i noticed like... color markings, not sure what they are from? but they look brown like a burn mark? is this normal tear and wear?
[img]http://i.imgur.com/6Gz8a42.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/XIvmtxm.jpg[/img]

and also under the heatbed has the same style of markings.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/QFjjBmR.jpg[/img]

So any ideas what it is? It doesn't seem to be weaker or anything like that, just a stained mark. wonder if it's normal.

Next up, I got a new power supply, Originally, I was just going to throw my older TX750 from corsair in there, but all the non-modular cables made me want to vomit, literally. I hate unorganized cables, Pet peeve when it comes to building computers =)

So, I had an idea where, I didn't want to gut up my PSU just case it fails or i need to use this ax750 on another rig or whatever for whatever reason, I decided to make my own cables so the power supply down the road would be easily interchangeable.

So i took a standard 2x 6pin pci-e to 8pin pcie adapter and modded it. I read that you need about 6 pairs of yellow and black, unfortunately the cables from corsair are all black, so it wasn't much fun to guess. Had to go get a reference picture.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/eAwtdLN.jpg[/img]
For reference, I used the CLIP on top of the PCI-E to distinguish top from bottom (top being the clip/head) As you can see, the top side of the 6pin pci-e are all grounds in this picture, and the bottom three are all 12volts cables, so each 6pin pcie power can give me 3 pairs of black and yellow. so two combined will give me the required 6.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/eAwtdLN.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/0pN732Q.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/i1SAj7u.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/eGpF4Ws.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/p22QWCt.jpg[/img]
and of course the close up of the wiring, hopefully i did it right let me know If i did it wrong, and sorry for the crappy shots, HTC ONE is the only camera around me.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/WLP24eD.jpg[/img]
so after it's all said and done, it should be
[img]http://i.imgur.com/FdZSwvq.jpg[/img]
(starting from left to right on this photo ^^^^^^^^) bundle of 4black, bundle of 4yellow, black, yellow,black, yellow.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/ZnFpUhN.jpg[/img]

And I also did the same for the 24pin PSU cable, I really didn't want to gut my cables apart to never to able to use it on another purpose again, so i bought a random 24pin to 20 pin PSU adapter, not much will be done, will just cut the green/black to turn on/off the psu at will. pretty straight forward.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/VMh9CW8.jpg[/img]
green to green, black to black. will have to connect the cables once the lower deck has been reconstucted.

Windshadow wrote:this image
[img]http://i.imgur.com/oo3nhUB.jpg[/img]
shows one of the tower stepper cogs in relation to the bearing and they are not quite aligned be sure when you install the dampers that the belts have no problems with side to side alignment caused by what is seen in the photo use blue thread locker when you get it adjusted

Hey windshadow, what do you mean by your statement? are you trying to say, the Gear (silver gear that attaches to the servo) is not centered with the bearing to the right of it to allow smooth flow(i feel like the gear should be raised up a tiny bit to level itself with the bearing.? or something else completely. Sorry, pretty new at 3d printing building, have printed some stuff before but not much due to cubex's fail of a 3d printer.

Let me know if i missed anything, I'll be rebuilding the connector pillars where the servos are mounted along with the bearings. to ensure they are straight and aligned properly. However I do not have any blue threadlocker, should i go buy some? if so home depot or is that an online ordering thing?

Here are the parts I know I will be ordering.
http://www.seemecnc.com/collections/par ... rriage-set
http://www.seemecnc.com/collections/par ... ta-arm-kit
(cheapskates + ball socket arm = $78)
http://www.filastruder.com/collections/ ... my17rmdamp
(Astrosyn dampeners x3 = $24)
New PSU (already purchased)
I looked over the belts, they look really REALLY good, so i might hold off on buying a new belt, plus the belt is really cheap, so I might have to do it regardless.
New cooling fans? = Do regular computer fans work on this? because I pretty sure I could just change the wiring to a 2pin to a 3 pin desktopfan quite easily. - not really worried my apartment is literally littered with tons of leftover computer parts.
PEI BED, i might give it a try, chances are they'll be ordered after i get everything together and assembled. but if you say it's zero maintenance, that sounds pretty awesome.
i'll buy the 713 maker mount, IF the Adriuno board isn't broken/ assuming it works, i'll buy the 713 mount, but If it doesn't I will go buy a duet board.
until then this adriuno board will do fine.

The part where I have the most trouble, or really most confusion, is the extruder and the jet head. I've honestly never built a 3d printer before, and The ones i use (Cubex duo) is pre built, and also I use a few DWS28+ for my work place, but that too is prebuilt and resin based, so a different chapter there for that one. -
When it comes down to extruder, is it that Important to buy an upgraded extruder, what does the bondtech qr or e3d titan extruder have that bests the ez-struder, and is it that much of an upgrade to have a better filament driver? (please explain to me like I'm five, never really got into the fine details of 3d printing as I am very much a computer person, but this isn't much further than my regular comfort zone of pc building -hence the easy pci-e extension cable)

Honestly I wanted to just buy the e-z struder to help save overall cost, But I'd like to know the differences, I read the reviews and they're basically speaking a different language than I am at the moment. WHAT is the benefit of having the e3d titan over the ez struder? and is it really important to have a good filament driver?

Secondly HOTENDS!
I've never changed a hot end before, nor taken my cubex apart. I've always printed PLA mostly because the cube-x did not have a heated bed, so abs didn't stay on very well, and also abs smelled really funky on the cubex. I've since relocated to a bigger space now, so I'd like to play with ABS again, and PLA is standard filament i use, I haven't printed much out in filament, mostly wax system on DWS28+ but that's at my work place. So i know absolutely nothing of Hotends. I've heard great things about the volcano, I literally know nothing about this area too, so it's like telling a kid the difference between gigabytes and gigabits. - I am leaning more towards the Volcano(mostly because everyone is saying it's great, but no actual scientific reasoning other than the name sounds cool), but that's pretty expensive or the prometheus? I mean, later down the road, I'd like to print in flexible plastic too, or maybe wood, but it's not a need or anything like that, just seems cool. And once again thank you everyone for reading and tuning in, before i forget, I wanted to thank xenocrates for making that list of parts for me, very helpful. and imboring25 as well for suggesting the duet upgrade, geneb and nylocke to bring out some interesting points as well. and if i missed anyone sorry, but you're awesome too =)

-Thanks
-Dmg

Windshadow · Post by **Windshadow** » Sun Apr 24, 2016 12:28 pm

Hey windshadow, what do you mean by your statement? are you trying to say, the Gear (silver gear that attaches to the servo) is not centered with the bearing to the right of it to allow smooth flow(i feel like the gear should be raised up a tiny bit to level itself with the bearing.?

yes exactly you want to minimize any alignment problems in the path of the belts... in that photo the cog needs to be a bit closer to the stepper on the shaft.... I used inexpensive cork shims mounting the steppers which work for me to reduce vibration, as I no longer have very acute hearing, most folks here use the astrosyn damper mounts with either the cog will need to be adjusted a bit further out for alignment with the belt bearing path.

It looks like you are doing a fine job with the wiring my kit is one of the more recent ones with the industrial power supply so I had fewer wiring headaches than you have with the ATX type of supply.

Nylocke · Post by **Nylocke** » Sun Apr 24, 2016 1:16 pm

The scorch marks on the snowflake are normal. They dont have flashpaper on it since its not visible so it gets scorched. The burn marks on the inside are not. Im not sure what happened there though.

The Volcano is apart of the E3D ecosystem of hotends (aka any of the hotends/heaterblocks designed and made by them). The volcano is a mod for their standard E3D hotends (the regular E3D, the Chimera (2 filament system), and the Kraken(4 filament watercooled)) that extends the length of the area that the plastic melts in. Its very good at making large strong stuff quickly. The regular E3D heaterblock is good for making mid-small stuff pretty well but not as fast. There is also the Cyclops, which is an alternate heaterblock for the Chimera system that turns it into a 2 in one out type thing. Thats the basics, their website may help explain more

I would recommend an upgrade from the Ezstruder, the Bontech is what everyone seems to be raving about, but it is pricey. I would also recommend considering the Tricklaser carbon fiber arms, though the new ball and socket ones from SeeMe are pretty good too.

Xenocrates · Post by **Xenocrates** » Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:17 pm

The mark on the melamine of the base-plate is unusual, but could be from overheated exhaust from an older PSU. The snowflake usually ends up with those marks from laser cutting (It's white, what do you expect. I have one I've never used with the same markings). Computer cooling fans will work for the base, but on the effector and hotend, what you want are the correct fans (Hotends will ship with them mostly). Layer fans you want from SeemeCNC (The little squirrel cage ones here: http://www.seemecnc.com/collections/par ... blower-fan). They move a deceptive amount of air, and a trio of them around the effector on the mount tabs will go a long way with PLA (Unfortunately, the mount tabs are broken off your effector)

So, let's answer more questions (I really like this part honestly, because I get to nest parenthesis, although perhaps I should start doing footnotes ala Pratchett instead)

Firstly, the filament driver. Often called a cold end or extruder, it is one of the major components that contributes to accuracy. It controls the flow of plastic into the hotend. The more steps per MM of filament, the more control you have over quantity, but the lower the max speed (As the drivers at 12V cannot get beyond a certain step frequency due to the inductive time constant and current rise time, and several other pieces of math for electrical work that's almost irrelevant here. Just know that without raising the voltage you hit a wall as far as rate of advance). Now, I find that the Bondtech runs at ~450steps/MM. Which means that you can extrude very granularly. A single MM of filament has a volume of 1.3744 MM3. Now, with a .4 nozzle, that's 4.375MM extruded (Ignoring die swell, since that's less predictable). So you can see how resolution there matters. It's even more important with 3MM filament. The step/MM rate also determines torque to a degree (As it does in all drive trains.). The EZ-struder is ungeared, and so only has the torque of the attached stepper. (34oz/in for the short can steppers that SMCNC sells, 76 with the long can). The Titan driver is geared 3 to one, meaning it has triple the torque available, which with the hobbed gear (The part which actually moves the filament) thermally isolated from the filament, means you can deal with filaments with higher resistance to flow. (The Ez-struder in my experience has a failing where the hobbed gear gets very warm and will melt PLA and soften other filaments if run continuously at too high an amperage, which reduces driving force) The Bondtech has two hobbed gears, giving them twice the grip area, allowing it to exert more torque (Which it has, as it uses a 5.18-1 planetary gearbox), making it perfect for difficult hotends and filaments, such as tungsten fill and the Cyclops hotend.

There are considerations beyond just resolution and drive force though. The biggest of which is filament path constraint, followed by idler spring force. The EZ-struder, having been designed for a low price point, and finished well before the big push of flexible materials, lacks a fully constrained filament path, meaning that any filament which softens can escape sideways in a number of directions. It looks like intestines when you take the cover off (Mostly PLA with too high a current on the stepper is the cause, although flexibles do it too very well). There are designs for printable parts to fix that (And if you use a Bondtech or E3D bowden adapter, and drill out the path slightly to fit the bowden tube closely to the hobbed gear it will also help). The titan has a fully constrained filament path in the form of a section of PTFE fitted to go between the hobbed (Drive) gear and the idler. (As far as I can tell at least, I don't own one, I've just looked at pictures). The bondtech has an integral filament path, meaning it is part of the SLS nylon casing.

Idler spring force is a little more nebulous. The Ez-struder is mostly considered to have too weak a spring (Thus why many people add a spare cap screw from the build into the spring to increase the spring force). But some people thing it's too strong. It's hard to adjust, and essentially fixed once the ezstruder is assembled. The Titan has a spring built into it, which can be adjusted with a set screw even while it's assembled, and has a fairly potent one from what I've heard (When you crank it down at least. I'm sure it can be adjusted to be weaker if you need that for some reason). It's repeatable if you move the same number of turns. The Bondtech mostly ignores it (It doesn't strictly speaking, have what I would call an idler, after all). It does (In the QR version, but not the V2 or the upcoming Pro) have a lever with a spring on a thumbscrew, but largely that sprint is not active in the system. You remove the thumbscrew to open the lever, and then feed filament, then return it when you're done (I'm sure you could just pull the lever, if you were strong or a little strange). When screwed in, the spring pushes the lever against the body, and the drive gears are set at a distance where both engage to the filament and each other.

Now, for a simpler summary. The Bondtech is probably the best filament driver on the market, but has a price to match. It can push any filament through any hotend. I would be utterly un-surpised if the upcoming pro version (Which moves to a CNC machined aluminum frame, from SLS nylon) could push copper wire through a Volcano nozzle. It has the speed to keep up with a Volcano, but not by much on 12V. (Moving to 24V means that you can easily push speed higher though). It has issues with the very rapid retracts E3D recommends. But many of us have much better results with slow retracts (10MM/s or so). The Titan has performance in areas where the EZ-struder is lacking, and is competitively priced. It's also potentially much faster than the Bondtech (Although that speed mostly isn't needed, unless you want stupid fast retracts, which E3D recommends, and we don't). The EZ struder is the fastest as far as raw throughput (Although the lower torque and spring force mean it can't practically use all that speed), but has the lowest performance (And price tag). Mounting the Bondech and EZ struder is easy. They both have purpose designed mounts available from their respective store-fronts. Mounting the Titan requires printing a part, and ABS is likely the lowest temp material that will work well, meaning you may need to run the printer with the filament driver ziptied in place for a bit.

Onwards to hotends.
I personally use an E3D V6 with PT100 blocks. It's probably the highest temperature capacity hotend you can buy. I'll try to summarize the characteristics of each hotend simply.

E3D V6:
Defining feature: High precision high reliability hotend.
Nozzle sizes: .25, .3, .35, .4, .5(no longer available), .6, .8 (Also can use the Volcano heater block and nozzles)
Max-temp: 300C with standard sensor.
Material: Aluminum, with stainless heatbreak. Option for stainless or hardened steel nozzles (Lower wear, but worse thermal conductivity, meaning higher temperatures). Brass nozzles standard.
Ease of use: Fairly high. Available pre-assembled.
Difficult materials: PLA, due to the higher friction of the stainless heat break versus PTFE.
Price: 75$ + S/H, + additional nozzles. (nozzles average 9$)

E3D Lite:
Defining feature: Low cost entry point to the E3D ecosystem, without the drawbacks of an un-supported clone.
Nozzle sizes: As the V6.
Max temp: 245C. Any higher and the PTFE breaks down.
Material: Stainless heatbreak/heatsink (Single unit) Aluminum heater and brass nozzle (Same nozzle options as V6)
Ease of use: High. Not available pre-assembled.
Difficult materials: PETG, Nylon, other high-temp materials.
Price: 35$ + S/H, + additional nozzles. (Nozzles average 9$)

E3D Volcano:
Defining feature: High speed, high strength parts.
Nozzle sizes: .4, .6, .8, 1., 1.2,
Max temp: 300 with standard sensor
Material: Same as V6
Ease of use: Medium high (Lower than V6)
Difficult materials: PLA, for same reasons
Price: 99$ + S/H (All nozzles included) (Nozzles average 9$)

Now, you can combine the E3D stuff pretty easily. You can attach the volcano to the V6 heatsink and heatbreak, or the to the lite, bringing cost down to 50$ to add the volcano and all it's nozzles to the V6. So the All in cost of the E3D ecosystem, presuming you go for the V6 rather than the light, and don't need the steel nozzles (Most don't) is 170, which gives you every size of nozzle you could need. 130 if you don't intend to print more than ABS and PLA, and settle for a Lite rather than a V6. E3D also sells PT100 blocks and sensors (And an amplifier board to connect them to the Rambo) which gives you temperature capacity right up until the hotend itself melts.

Prometheus:
Defining feature: Unmatched flexibility.
Nozzle sizes: .3, .4, .6, 1.
Max temp: 300 with standard sensor:
Material: Aluminum with Stainless steel one piece nozzle/heatbreak.
Ease of use: Mid-range (Due to the sheer variety of possible configurations, and being able to act like either a Volcano or V6)
Difficult materials: PLA, but better with it than the V6 or Volcano)
Price: 79.99 + S/H + nozzles (Nozzles average 26$)

J-head (Hotends.com only, not Ebay)
Defining feature: Best PLA performance available
Nozzle sizes: .35, .4, .5
Max temp: 240C
Material: Brass nozzle block and PEEK heatbreak/sink
Ease of use: High
Difficult materials: All but ABS and PLA
Price: 57$ + S/H + nozzles (nozzles average 25$)

SeemeCNC hotend
Defining feature: Included stock with all SMCNC machines
Nozzle sizes: .35, .5, .7, drill your own
Max temp: 240C
Material: Aluminum and Peek with brass nozzle
Ease of use: Medium (Hotend is high, but assembly is a pain due to RTV)
Difficult materials: Nylon, other high temp plastics
Price: 65$ +S/H +nozzles (Nozzles average 9$)

I'm sure I missed several hotends. But for general use, those are the most common ones. If you have special requirements, you'll need a special hotend. Ask, and I'm sure someone can recommend one.

dmgdispenser · Post by **dmgdispenser** » Sun Apr 24, 2016 3:14 pm

just curious what a good 24v psu would run me as well?

Windshadow · Post by **Windshadow** » Sun Apr 24, 2016 4:23 pm

if you just need it for a fast heating hot bed one like this at about $50 might work for you. genuine MEANWELL is a preferred brand.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KTJ ... J6YV8TNTQY

Xenocrates · Post by **Xenocrates** » Sun Apr 24, 2016 4:37 pm

As Windshadow mentioned, Meanwell is a preferred brand, and it maters what you need it for. However, the one he linked will not run the bed at 24V (Due to it being a 1.2 ohm resistor, it needs a very large amperage supply), only when it's turned down. I believe that a 30A supply should be more than sufficient if you wanted one to run everything (Less if you planned to use a step-down converter). However, one of those is 182 from Mouser, while a 25A one is 90$ (Which should be able to handle things if you're careful and don't plan on multi-extrusion. Both are actual Meanwells, and Mouser is not the cheapest place (But it is one of the more reliable about not selling you a dud). Here's a few links from them.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mea ... 5LFgNTo%3d 25A version (Would be tight) 90$

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mea ... fuImKxQ%3d 30A version (Plenty of horsepower) 180$

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mea ... Zf3L8xg%3d 40A version
(Power to spare) 215$

Post by **geneb** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:59 am

That's some astronomically atrocious arm hacking there. I'd love to ask the original builder what the f--- he was thinking in doing that. If there was ever a need of an International Center for 3D Printer Abuse, this is it.

Because of the new ball & socket arms, there's no reason to go to either the magnetic or "traxxis" carbon fiber arms. You're just spending more money for no better performance.

Here's hoping that the RAMBo board hasn't been as mistreated as those poor arms have been.

g.

Post by **Eaglezsoar** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:20 pm

geneb wrote:That's some astronomically atrocious arm hacking there. I'd love to ask the original builder what the f--- he was thinking in doing that. If there was ever a need of an International Center for 3D Printer Abuse, this is it.

Because of the new ball & socket arms, there's no reason to go to either the magnetic or "traxxis" carbon fiber arms. You're just spending more money for no better performance.

Here's hoping that the RAMBo board hasn't been as mistreated as those poor arms have been.

g.

Do you not plan to add to the manual about using 24 tubes of hot glue?

This is by far the worst job of assembly I have ever seen.

Post by **geneb** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:13 pm

Well the arms are clearly broken - which is quite the feat considering they're glass filled nylon. You REALLY gotta work at it to break those.

Hot snot can fix quite a few things, but those arms should've been given a quiet burial in the back yard.

g.

dmgdispenser · Post by **dmgdispenser** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:34 pm

yeah, it's pretty bad, so far, i've ordered the newer arms/cheapskate carriage set, new bearings for the other 9 that need to be replaced, and the cold end and hot end i'm currently debating. I think i'm gonna go with the v6 because it's pretty widely used, but probably will get the bondtech cold end, i could eventually change the v6 so we never know.

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