help me decide

[cambo3d]

hello,

new to the forum, I've been wanting the rostock max but I'm worried about the whole build and calibration. Maybe some forum members here could share how easy or difficult this process was for you.

I'm no newbie to diy but I also want something that is going to give me good results. There's something i've learned from diy, its that; there's no better builder than the builder itself because they know the ins and outs of the machine way better than I could read in a manual.

Ive been looking at the aluminatus trinityone, Qu bd revolution, mendel max 2.0, and the new delta maker on kickstarter but i'm undecided at this point.

couple of things i'm looking for in the machine.

1st, quality of prints
2nd, build quality
3rd, product support

[cambo3d]

anyone wanna give me some insight on how there build went? anyone?

[Polygonhell]

anyone wanna give me some insight on how there build went? anyone?

Build is relatively straight forwards, but it's not my first 3D printer, took me perhaps 15 hrs.
Most people seem to have more issues with firmware setup and the calibration process which isn't particularly onerous, but if you're not comfortable with software it can seem complicated.

No hobby level printer is really "easy" to get quality prints out of, they require some patience and messing around, IMO the RostockMax kit is about as complete as they come.

[mhackney]

Read my build thread, it goes into pretty good detail and follow along with the manual. It took about 8 hrs total time to build. Again, not my first printer but this one is so different and so much easier than the others that it was like building a printer for the first time.

The difficult part comes with the calibration and understanding the software chain to print. Even the commercial printers are not simple in this area. DIY 3D printing is still on the frontier. If product support is important, you absolutely can not go wrong with SeeMeCNC! They support the entire product, not just the parts to a kit, etc. Most of the other vendors are simply printing and reselling an open source design.

The build quality with laser cut parts is always going to be better than the build quality of printed parts. Injection molded parts too - in fact, this is what attracted me to SeeMeCNC i the first place, their injection molded kit made more sense. The RepRap world has a bit of an altruistic attitude - and I don't say this to be negative at all! - and the ability to "print your own printer" is/was important. However, now as the interest is becoming more mainstream, folks are recognizing that the barrier to entry to print a machine is pretty high. So injection molding, laser cut and machined aluminum printers are popping up everywhere.

Quality of prints is going to be affected by many factors. The majority of these machines can easily handle the movement tolerances required. Calibrating and learning how to slice/configure the print and experience are the main areas affecting quality of print (again, as a sweeping generalization, obviously inferior filament and other factors come in).

I have seen some very detailed parts off the Rostock Max. I have printed some very detailed accurate parts on my H-1 and H-1.1.

Good luck!

Cheers,
Michael

[cambo3d]

any problems with the bowden extruder, doing my research general consensus was the hardware isn't quit there yet.

also 20+ hours of machine assembly wow. I hope they will have a new design soon that minimizes that time.

[mhackney]

Sounds like you would be better served buying a preassembled machine. I can not see assembly time decreasing significantly for any of these machines in the near future. I know from my own fly fishing reel kit business that labor to assemble is the biggest expense. There is a tradeoff between designing an item/device to be assembled by someone else (a kit) versus just manufacturing the completed item. If you think 8 hours is long, try assembling a Prussia or other RepRap printer! It's an exercise of love and patience!


Also I am not sure where you got your information on the Bowden, it's been around a while and folks have done some remarkable things with it like multiple hot ends, etc that you can't do with a traditional extruder. The relationship between the extruder, hot end and printing parameters like speeds and temperatures is relatively complex and not an exact science. The issues I've read regarding bowden problems (for example: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic ... YyCPsMSfEM) are no different than a traditional geared extruder because of this interplay. You have to get the entire system working together in order for it to work properly.

[Polygonhell]

I would also not recommend buying any kit if you think 8+hours of assembly is onerous, the RostockMax is one of the easier/faster builds out there.
I would be careful with pre-assembled machines and wouldn't buy from anyone that couldn't provide "real" support, these machines break, and debugging them/fixing them is a lot easier if you went through the pain of building it and debugging/calibrating before you have to fix it.

[mhackney]

3D Printing (at least the "RepRap" extruded plastic 3D printing) is very much like the early days of the personal computer (I mean pre-Comodore 64!) when you built your own, programmed it and continually tweaked it. 3D printing is actually a lot easier though since the Web makes it easy to tap into information. Back then, we had Byte magazine and the guy down the street (actually, his dad, I was 12 at the time!).

[rs50pilot]

I purchased a max last week. It will be my 1st 3d printer. I do not care about the build time and from my research this one looks to go together easy. It is the calibration and software that concerns me. I cannot really seem to find a good source or guide for setting this thing up. From what I have read and I know it is the internet, but the retraction with this extruder seems to be what everyone complains about.

Being that I sort of understand it, it does seem difficult. I guess my question is, is the max a good first printer or would the experienced guys suggest another kit? I do want to build it myself so that if it breaks I can fix it. The max has good build volume and looks to be designed very well. It also looks sweet when it prints.

I am a machinist by trade and I do understand g code although I would have to learn it again as it is not the same.
My problem is I do not have a lot of spare time. I was sort of looking for a printer that comes with a setup that will get you good prints without a ton of setup. After reading this post it seems as if all of the kits are going to require a lot of work to get good prints from.

Can anyone suggest some good reading on how to set these up. Thanks

[mhackney]

rs50pilot, we shouldn't hijack this thread, perhaps you should start your own. However, being a machinist you know the learning curve required to understand speeds and feeds and materials, etc. This form of 3D printing is much simpler in my opinion but it isn't plug and play either. The high end commercial printers have reached that level but they are very expensive.

As for the extruder, they all have setup problems. Once you understand the principle of operation they become much easier. There are multiple interacting variables that must be sorted out.

[rs50pilot]

Sorry didn't mean to hi jack. I thought maybe some answers would benifit the poster as well. Thanks for the response.

[cambo3d]

i do think its possible with all the technology out there to minimize build components and make it easier to assemble. look at the delta maker design. it is not so complex.

also look at this http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/205 ... ion-system
that could help also, if they did a redesign for easier assembly it would be a winner

thanks for your thoughts guys

[mhackney]

Agreed, but look at the price of the DeltaMaker and the linear bearings you linked. It all comes down to how much do you want to spend. The higher tech components and pre-assembly, the more you spend.

Lot's of choices, lot's of ways to spend your money or time or both!

[Polygonhell]

i do think its possible with all the technology out there to minimize build components and make it easier to assemble. look at the delta maker design. it is not so complex.

also look at this http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/205 ... ion-system
that could help also, if they did a redesign for easier assembly it would be a winner

thanks for your thoughts guys

You could cut down to some extent on the mechanical assembly, the linear motion system isn't a big part of the assembly time, a lot of the build time is taken up making up the hotend, wiring, running wires etc etc.
The advantage of designs like the max, is the details have been thought through, where does the PSU go, how do I run my wires etc etc.
It might seem like all kits would do this but they don't, most just give you a frame with some steppers and you try and figure out how best to arrange the wiring, note that all of the electronics for the Delta Maker for example are off camera.

[cambo3d]

price was never a concern for me, build and calibration was as stated before. If they offered a complete assembled/calibrated machine I would have already bought it.

[mhackney]

http://thefutureis3d.com/node/120 offers several models of high quality ready to run machines as do others.

[cambo3d]

that's not a rostock though. i really like this design but not whats involved to get put together and calibrated.

[mhackney]

Sorry, I didn't realize you wanted a delta printer! I think they may be too new and the firmware and control apps are still basically beta software.

Having built 3 printers now, I do have to say that the Rostock is very well designed and is a complete system as Polygonhell pointed out. I spent a lot of time figuring out how to mount my RAMPS board, run wiring, a building a filament spool holder, etc on the other printers. Other than the other kit you linked too, I think it is the only shipping delta printer kit on the market?

[cambo3d]

still can't make up my mind.

[cambo3d]

I just found this doing a search. this might be the one i want. comes fully assembled and calibrated. yay looks cool too.

http://tricklaser.com/Rostock-MAX-Custo ... LK-BLU.htm

is anyone care to comment on these guys?

[cambo3d]

so i guess from silence no is willing to comment or the price is too high or nobody owns one

for an assembled and calibrated machine compared to others price looks comparable

[mhackney]

It's your decision, your money. You now know that the builder works for the parent company of SeeMeCNC. What else do you need to know? Contact him directly and ask your questions. As for price:

Kit: $999
Time building: 10 hrs
Time tuning: ???

If you value your time at $50 an hour, then you could build the machine for $1500 plus calibration time and of course it would not be the cool Tron motif. You said money was not a key consideration. So go for it and tell us how it works.

[cambo3d]

i have contacted them and they keep dancing around my questions so I'm probably not going to purchase it.

Doesn't seem like anyone here has one except for the guy who designed it. I wanted opinions from someone who has one;other than the designer, that's why I asked.

[mhackney]

That's probably because it is a one of a kind. He does not appear to be making these in quantity to resell. If you are not getting answers to your questions, then the prudent thing to do is move on.

[cambo3d]

do seemecnc rostock max kits come with the borosilicate glass or do I need to add that?