Rostock Max V2 w/E3D V6 Advice?

[ExplodedZombie]

Hello everyone. I'm getting close to fed up with my machine. No matter what I do, something is always messed up. I fix it and another problem surfaces Months and months have gone by and I still get garbage prints. So I'm hoping folks can help out with this: what are your settings for a similar machine? I'm currently trying to print with Matterhackers ABS 1.75 (Lime and Black). I want to print this file http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1766384 but things come out all wormy looking on the bottoms/overhangs.

So, what kind of settings do you folks use for a similar setup?

Here are some of mine:
.4mm nozzle
Retraction Dist. - 2mm
Retraction Speed - 100mm/sec
Hotend - 230c
Heat Bed - 100c
Supports - Yes, Lines
Non Print Speed - 150mm/sec
Layer Height - .2
Initial Layer Height - .3
Print Speeds - 30mm/sec (all)

I'd love to try .1mm layer heights but when I did, it just gooed all over the place, like it didn't automatically lower the flow at all.

[gchristopher]

Hi! Could you post some pics of the failed prints? Maybe those would provide clues.

I glanced at that mech model and some of the parts will be near-unprintable without very well-placed support material and a tolerance for manual cleanup. The legs, in particular, have greater than 90-degree overhanging parts that would be printed purely on supports. That's as hard as it gets for FDM printing.

For getting your printer tuned and dialed in, other models will be better understood test subjects.

What slicer software are you using? I'm printing ABS with an E3D V6 and have settings for Mattercontrol/Slic3r/KISSlicer that are pretty close to yours, except that I generally don't use generated supports. For mechanical strength, I've often had to print at higher temperatures (235-245C), but for a small model, cooler should be fine.

If those models came out as garbage, I wouldn't blame my printer. It's common on Thingiverse for someone to submit a model, but hasn't or can't put in the effort to make it more reasonable to print.

I guess that's the good news; that there could easily be nothing wrong with the printer. The annoying news is that it might take a lot of work with the model and slicing software to get a good print.

[Xenocrates]

I note you're not making use of any cooling from the looks of it. Even with ABS, overhangs and bridging need it. For my setup right now I'm using support with an interface layer (This produces a solid shell under the part, and may be named differently), and up to 20% fan using a Berd Air, with .1 layer heights, a .25 nozzle, and 30% infill. I also think your retraction speed may be too fast.

[ExplodedZombie]

Thank you both for the responses. I will see if my wife can photograph the garbage parts for me.

As for software, I'm using Mattercontrol with the Mattercontrol slicer. I tried switching the slicer to Slic3r and it tries to print off the bed, causing all sorts of chaos with the arms. I couldn't figure out how to move the model so I switched back. Considering using another program to slice but I'm super new so figuring out all that will take some time.

As for cooling. I am going to hook up my part fan this weekend, but I don't know how to tell Mattercontrol to only use the fan on overhangs. Is that possible? I just see a speed control when I dig through the settings.

[TwoTone]

Try Cura. I'll ask my son for his setting when he gets home- hopefully he can get them without connecting to the printer since we are currently upgrading to DuetWiFi.

I wish I could help, I always feel like we must have gotten very lucky when I read about people struggling.

Here's a small sample of what he's printed with the E3d v6 hotend.
He is using this effector plate. http://www.thingiverse.com/make:254486

[img]http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/oo254/TheOriginalTwoTone/20170224_130837.jpg[/img]

[ExplodedZombie]

Thanks for the advice, TwoTone. I downloaded Cura the other night. Trying it this weekend. I am definitely interested to know the settings.

Here are the undersides of the items I printed. If you don't see the bottom, it looks great.
[img]http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab34 ... asers1.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab34 ... /narc1.jpg[/img]
Nothing but squigly, hot garbage on the bottom sides.
[img]http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab34 ... asers2.jpg[/img]
Notice that any overhang (all 90 degree angles) are gross looking.

[gchristopher]

Actually, I think you're really close to getting great prints!

Those overhangs are actually pretty nice considering the extreme angles. Subsequent layers are looking really smooth and free of artifacts. At a glance, your printer seems to be working great.

The only printer setting that's wrong is your first layer is too high. See those big gaps between the filament on the first layer? Increase your max z distance in EEPROM by 0.05 - 0.10 mm until you get a nice smooth finish on the bottom of the print. This might mean you have to eventually put some more effort into leveling the bed to get good use of the entire print surface, but the V2 holds a calibration well once you've got it.

Now, for the overhangs, you're up against the laws of physics here. There's no way to squeeze molten plastic out into thin air without some extra help.

Turning on the cooling fan for those bits might help some, but if I was printing it, I'd add manual supports to the model, and expect to do a little bit of cleanup with an xacto knife and needle file.

I'll download the model and see if I have any good ideas for it. I know that KISSlicer has an option to print perimeters from the inside out, instead of the outside in. I don't recall if MatterSlice does. You can see some areas of that model where the whole outer perimeter was unsupported and came out badly.

So, if the software supports it, telling it to print the inside of the model first, so the interior perimeters can help support the outer perimeters, might help a little.

Another easy answer might be to slice the gun into two concave halves to print, the way the author did with the mech cockpit/body.

[TwoTone]

Cura is one of the choices in mattercontrol- that's what he is using.

[ExplodedZombie]

Oh I see what you mean. I'll try all of the things listed here. Thanks a bunch for the info.

I checked the "Supports" box and it printed a bunch of stuff I had to snap off, but this is what I got.

I would love to know how to split the gun, I'm not good with 3d software. I may talk my friend into helping me. He's a tech artist for Unity so dude knows how to 3D.

[gchristopher]

Yeah, I dream of better software-generated supports that consistently solve the problem you're seeing. I know someone who did her entire Master's in Computer Science on generating supports for 3D models.

Like a lot of hobbyist 3d printing, the most significant limiting factor is the software. If I really want nice overhang printing, it seems like I need to create the support structure myself a lot of the time.

I just started using esbowman's adjustable belt tensioners for my V2, and there's a huge 90-degree overhang that prints wonderfully because they included a handmade-just-for-that-print support structure in the model STL.

[ExplodedZombie]

Ahhh, now I understand. You all meant to go into the model and create the supports in 3D. Yeah...this weekend is crack open Blender weekend.

[ExplodedZombie]

@gchristopher, You aren't talking about Z-prove height are you? i don't have a max z distance in the eeprom

[geneb]

It's Max Z axis in the EEPROM. It'll be a value somewhere between 375 and 402mm depending on your model of printer.

g.

[ExplodedZombie]

I ended up changing it by .2mm total and it's much better looking. Will continue to tweak if I can ever get my heated bed back up to 100. It gets anywhere between 85 and 95 and suddenly the target heat for both hot end and heated bed become 0 and everything just drops. Not sure if it's the update to Mattercontrol or the Aluminum Heat Spreader I installed to help with larger prints (had a lifting issue before). Removed the plate, testing, if that doesn't work I'll PID tune it and pray to the gods of 3D printing. So far they hate me.

Edit: it is still busted but maybe it was the plates fault. i dunno. i hate this thing as well as 1handed typing

[geneb]

I've never needed a bed heat higher than 80C to print ABS, so you might try that.

g.

[ExplodedZombie]

I will try that tonight. I need to print 3 layer fan shrouds so maybe that will work. The heat spreader should help for sure. But dang...it shouldn't be failing the PID Autotune. And definitely shouldn't be resetting its target to 0. (I'm guessing it's getting the "killed" status for some reason. Might have to do with the "Timed Out" message). Timing out is probably because it's not gaining heat fast enough....this is my guess.

[TwoTone]

I've never needed a bed heat higher than 80C to print ABS, so you might try that.

g.

I find I have to have it at 90C for ABS even with a sheet of PEI on the glass. We just finished our upgrade to DuetWiFi and DC42 IR sensor. So first time using KisSlicer.

I left it at the stock setting which was 80C. That was the setting for the 1st 2 prints you see where it came off the bed. Changed it to 90C and got the 3rd print.

ExplodedZombie- I'll get my son's settings for you- just been really busy trying to get this upgrade working properly.

[img]http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/oo254/TheOriginalTwoTone/20170227_121324.jpg[/img]

[ExplodedZombie]

No problem and thanks a lot for the help. You have all been awesome. Hoping that the bed is just timing out and I can find a way to get it up to temp again. Not sure why it suddenly isn't working when nothing changed (could be Mattercontrol upgrade broke something)

[ExplodedZombie]

Ok folks, if you're still around and keen to help, I got the bed working. Seems to be an ambient temperature issue. Portable heater helps but it's warming up, in general so that's good.

I tried to mitigate the nasty overhang issue by creating .1mm layers. I printed a cube and the results are disturbing. A few whisps here and there, tiny blobs here and there, and the corners looked melted a little.

So my question: In Mattercontrol, is there any other setting that I should change when I make it .1mm layers? Print speed? Heat? I tried lowering temp by 10, same results.

Edit: the corners aren't melted, they're missing. Almost like retraction needs to be reduced or something....but the whisps seem to tell me otherwise.