ApacheXMD's Build

[ApacheXMD]

I finally got my Rostock Max kit in and dug into the assembly. Peeling the masking tape wasn't as bad as I thought it'd be. The most annoying thing wasn't so much the tape, but the charred edges. Soot kinda gets all over your hands and clothes.

Then I found that I'm missing the nylon nuts that hold the feet to the bottom plate. I emailed support and hopefully Seemecnc will send some to me.

I put the base all together and I did have to file down the nut slots on a few spots. But after putting the top part of the base on, I noticed that it wasn't flat. I think I'm having the same issue as Cambo3d. Take a look at the pictures.

Straight Edge on top

This is the top plate with a straight edge. You can see the dip in the middle. It looks to be over 2mm of a depression.

Straight Edge on Bottom

This is the bottom plate with a straight edge. You can see the high spot in the middle.

I'm not exactly sure what's going on, but I think I'm gonna disassemble everything (heart breaking) and get some measurements of the tri support pieces I think there's a serious discrepancy, whether or not it's a dimensional error, or a squareness issue.

Power supply mount

Take a look at the Power supply mounting plate. Both the Power Supply plate and the adjacent Cover Bracket are sitting tight to the bottom. But notice how far the top of the Power Supply plate is from the top plate. There's like a 2mm discrepancy.

Visually warped

Finally, the whole assembly is visually warped. It may be hard to tell in the picture, but there's a visible waviness to the top if viewed at eye level. Placed on my granite countertops, with my missing feet, the bottom does not sit flat against the surface. Unsurprisingly with the measured bulge, it wobbles quite a bit.

I used a power screwdriver with adjustable clutch for assembly. All the screws are snugged up with the same torque, snug but not overly so.

I'll update this thread with more pictures when I get a chance to disassemble and measure the pieces. So far I'm a little disappointed..

[JohnStack]

Since all of the vertical pieces are exactly the same, I would probably look at the tightness of your nilocks (hex nuts). Of course, melamine is never going to be perfect. Once you get it from rocking, then there are two things that you're going to have to be concerned about: getting the heated bed level. The rest is adjustable.

[cambo3d]

glad i wasn't the only one noticing it. yours is worse than mine. That's gonna be a night mare to get a level build platform. I'm still tweaking mine to get it level.

you have the same problem on mine too the power supply area. i have warping here also.

[aehM_Key]

Since all of the vertical pieces are exactly the same

Have you looked at the 3rd picture?

It looks really bad, I would even send it back..

[Av8r RC]

Maybe try to loosen all the bolts holding it together on both sides, just loosen. Maybe about a 1/4~1/2 a turn. Then put it on a nice level surface. While lightly pushing down on the top, wiggle the top back and forth to get all the joints to settle together. And check it again with the ruler, before tightening everything again.

If it's still real bad. It's up to you if you want to go further or contact CNC to possibly getting a replacement.

If you decide to go forward. Tighten the center group of screws on one side, then gently flip it over and do the same on the other side. Then slowly work your way outward, picking a group a screws to tighten (in a circle around the base). And flipping and doing the same on the other side, till you get to the edge.

I don't know if this will work, just taking a guess this might help. I tightened the screw on mine like this. But am ashamed to say I didn't check it, with a straight edge like I should have. This makes me want to check mine.

[rs50pilot]

I didn't check mine either but im sure its the same way. There is about .030 difference from center out to each side. I nightmare to set your axis lengths. Im just gonna shim my bed. I'm not taking it apart.

[ApacheXMD]

hi av8rRC (rc plane enthusiast?)

That's exactly how I tightened down the screws in the first place; concentric circles working radially from center out. And before I even posted I've tried what you suggested, ie: loosening up ALL the screws and trying to tweak it on my countertop. It did straighten it out but the screws had to be loose. If tightened down at all, it brings it back to warpsville. And here's why:

I took the top plate off and measured the vertical supports. I rechecked all of the bottom screws to ensure that they're snug and the vertical plates are tight to the bottom plate:

Tri support measurement

This is my steel rule measuring one of the tri supports near the center of the round. (Keep in mind that the end of the rule is resting on the bottom plate and the measurement is actually a few mm shorter.)

Cover bracket measurement

And this is measuring one of the cover brackets that are near the edge of the round. You can see that there is about a 1mm difference in height.

I'm in the process of measuring every vertical support and will post more pictures and info later. Thus far, nearly every one of the cover brackets are taller than the middle tri supports. That would account for the depressed top.

I think a possible fix would be to maintain flatness of the bottom plate, and then sand down all the vertical supports to a fixed height.

[cambo3d]

im thinking about removing my cover bracket mounts, since i'm not using the cover anyway. this might eliminate some of the problem but I wished had measured all the parts before I started assembly.

[Av8r RC]

Well then yeah that is probably your only option. I want to move some stuff around on my Max, and finally get around to installing that LCD. I'll check to see how mine looks.

hi av8rRC (rc plane enthusiast?)

Why yes I do. Been flying planes for about 3 yrs now. Flew helis for about 1.5 yrs before that. But don't fly them anymore.

I like flying 3D. 3D anything is awesome, printing, planes, helis, movies, games, ect. lol

Here's my pride and joy. 3DHS 89" AJ Slick. Desert Aircraft 60cc, Hitec HS-7955's all around, Spektrum AR9110 Rx. This plane will do anything I want it to do, and more that I can't.
[img]http://www.3drcforums.com/attachment.ph ... 1353895390[/img] To put in perspective. I'm 5'9".

Also have a 3DHS 51" AJ Slick, 47" SHP, 40"EPP Edge. Extreme Flight 48" Edge. And a bunch of Ultra Micro Parkzone/E-Flight planes.

[ApacheXMD]

Av8rRC: Nice plane! I was thinking about getting a Parkzone ultra micro to fly around the park near the house, but there's quite a bit of wind in my area..

I took some time to do some measuring:

Measurement spreadsheet

The unlabeled measurements in the spreadsheet are tri supports and motor/idler mounts.
You can see that the measurements aren't too bad on the tri supports and the motor mount. The power supply mount and the cover brackets are the real culprit. Including those measurements more than quadruples the standard deviation! And the difference between max and min is 1.86mm! Not good at all.

Since I'm not going to use the cover anyway, and I'm using a non-atx power supply, I'm just going to skip using those pieces in my base. That should mean only minimal sanding to get the other pieces withing a tenth or so of each other.

But I'm beginning to wonder if that will be even worth it, given another problem I've discovered....

[ApacheXMD]

So in other threads I've been wondering about the necessary precision of tower placement/plumbness/perpendicularness.

I remember seeing in another thread somewhere about measuring the distances between towers. So I decided to measure the extrusion slots in the base plate and top plate.

Base plate z-y

Base Plate y-x

Base Plate x-z

NOTE: I'm measuring with a tape measure starting at the 2cm mark. So deduct 2cm from the measurements. I'm measuring to/from the inside corners where the t-slot extrusion will sit.

My eyeballs are telling me that on the bottom plate the z-y measurements are shorter than the other two by about 2mm.

Top plate1

Top Plate2

Top Plate3

The top plate is better. With maybe a .8mm difference between the short and long measurement.

The problem is more apparent when you put the two plates on top of each other:

Top and base plate stacked.

The two slots on the right match pretty close, maybe .5mm off, but the one on the left is WAY out there...

My thought is, if I tried to assemble the kit as is, the towers will never be perpendicular to the build surface, and never be equidistant and parallel from each other. I'm not entirely sure, but I think this would be a big deal.

I'm not sure where to begin to try fix this as I'm not sure how much wiggle room/adjustment there will be once everything is assembled. I could sand the crap out of both plates to enlarge the slots in both, but I don't want it to be loosey goosey.

Any suggestions?

I'm going to email Support a link to this thread to see what they think.

[cambo3d]

the holes where the extrusion mounts to the melamine make a difference too, even if you sand those slots out for the extrusion, your limited how much you can move it because of those holes.

I would check the 1/4 mounting holes for the extrusion to see if they are in the same spot also.

[ApacheXMD]

the holes where the extrusion mounts to the melamine make a difference too, even if you sand those slots out for the extrusion, your limited how much you can move it because of those holes.

I would check the 1/4 mounting holes for the extrusion to see if they are in the same spot also.

Are you referring to the holes on the top plate where the "clamps" mount? I'll measure those when I get home from work. I have a feeling they'll be off too.

I was thinking that even if the extrusion slots weren't exactly the same distance apart, I could make it work by maybe adjusting at the parallel arms attachment point or somehow adjust the cheapskate carriages. The idea isnt so much keeping the extrusions equidistant, but the point at which the parallel arms attach.

But that idea is thrown out if the top and bottom plates dont at least match each other. If they were both off consistently, i think i would be in a better position.

[cambo3d]

check the bottom then check the top.

[ApacheXMD]

check the bottom then check the top.

Sorry cambo3d, Im not clear on which holes on the bottom you're referring to. Do you have a picture?

Thanks!

[cambo3d]

check the bottom then check the top.

Sorry cambo3d, Im not clear on which holes on the bottom you're referring to. Do you have a picture?

Thanks!

[aerouta]

Interesting.... What have you decided? Any word from others if this discrepancy is significant enough to cause problems in the build? Does the build process some how "smooth out" or dissolve these misalignments so the effects are not substantial? Is this something that we should all do prior to assembling, or is ignorance bliss? I would hate to blame bad prints on this when all I really needed to do was change a line of code.

[ApacheXMD]

I have contacted seemecnc about the issue and they indicated that the distance betwwen towers shouldnt be more than 1mm. I'm measuring about 2mm difference in my parts.

But after fretting about it all day, my wife said something to me: "Hurry up and print me something!"

So i have decided to just use what I have, get it built and enjoy more printing time and more family time, rather than spending hours measuring and bitching.

I took off the cover brackets, shimmed some of the tri support pieces, and moved on with the build. I mounted the towers and I think i have enought play to mget the distances close enough.

Hopefully with luck, I'll have the mechanics and wiring done by the weekend.

[aerouta]

I'm interested to see what happens. Please check the bed level again after the base is assembled and post the results. My printer gets delivered today. I will do the same.

[PartDaddy]

@seemecnc customers:

The laser cut parts in this post aren't looking too good, so we will replace them. While not all kits experience these problems, if you do have a problem, email us your photo and order number to support @seemecnc .com and we will help you. We take pride in our craftsmanship, and want every customer to purchase with confidence and know that we stand behind what we manufacture.

We spent most of today re-calibrating our laser equipment to ensure quality work is leaving our shop.

Email us for fastest customer service!

[ApacheXMD]

@seemecnc customers:

The laser cut parts in this post aren't looking too good, so we will replace them. While not all kits experience these problems, if you do have a problem, email us your photo and order number to support @seemecnc .com and we will help you. We take pride in our craftsmanship, and want every customer to purchase with confidence and know that we stand behind what we manufacture.

We spent most of today re-calibrating our laser equipment to ensure quality work is leaving our shop.

Email us for fastest customer service!

I replied to John's email yesterday and attached some pictures of the issues. I haven't heard back. I called and left a message today at about 1:30pm pacific time but no reply as of yet.

If you can get replacement parts to me soon, I'll stop my build now. I want to get up and running ASAP. So anything you guys can do woukd be greatly appreciated.

[cambo3d]

i would take him up on that offer, because your kit is way off.

[JohnStack]

I have to say this, you definitely did your due diligence. I knew @PartsDaddy or JohnOly would jump in if they felt it was necessary!

Perhaps a pretty birch laminate could be an alternative material (for some extra cost). Personally, I'd like to see someone with more money than brains do an all aluminum build. You'd need a fork truck with all stainless unit!

[geneb]

Chromed. My god, that would be just amazing to see. *maniacal laugh*

g.

[ApacheXMD]

Quick update: Got an email from seemecnc saying they're shipping out the new laser cut parts tomorrow. So hopefully the new parts will be dimensional consistent and the build will resume shortly.

This time around I think I'll out the calipers on the parts before I dive into assembly. And of course I'll update this thread with new pics and measurements of the replacement parts.

I've never dealt with laser cut parts before so I'm not too sure what typical tolerances are. And I did noticed the not perfectly square cuts that are on my parts now. I would think that the cutter would be calibrated so the "wider" dimenson would be the side to aim for, at least for the vertical pieces in the base and other pieces that need to fit 90degrees to each other.