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Is there a response to the videos on YouTube by Matt Kraemer? I saw Steve left a comment, but I guess I'm looking for more specific responses to his critiques. Here are some that stuck in my mind.

Should I expect to have to sand the lasercut parts?
Are the parts he assert are missing expected?
Is the build platform expected to vary or be warped like all of that?
Does the RAMBo need heat sinks on the motor controllers?
Are their documented techniques to address the difficulties he had with assembly in other areas like getting the screw in straight or lining up the rollers?
Have some of these been addressed in the kit as it currently stands?

In the end, my time is sadly limited. I don't expect to be able to get 4 hours in a row to do this build so I'm looking for something that is a complete kit, can be assembled reasonably quickly and get me some acceptable prints for under $1k. I also really like the delta bot idea for simplicity and it is just plain fun to watch.

EDIT:
Here's where it was originally discussed: http://forum.seemecnc.com/viewtopic.php ... 7951#p7951

There is a thread somewhere with various responses to the video.

This caught my eye in your post

I don't expect to be able to get 4 hours in a row to do this

There is no way you will build any printer kit in that time, even if you've built one before.
I'd budget at least 15 hours and if it's your first printer build 2-4x that.
All the printer kits I've built or seen have components numbering in the 100's (mostly fasteners) there is a limit to how quickly you can assemble based on that alone.
Also although I'm sure many here will disagree with me, I'd stay away from a deltabot as a first printer, there are additional challenges with calibration, and for a first time builder there will be enough challenges with any kit as it is.

I'm with Polygonhell on this one. Time to build the rostock is greatly underestimated simply because there is no way to really convey some of the calibration steps and get them right on the first go. Building the machine can be done within the time frame they say if focused on just building. The times you have to tear apart and "Adjust and Calibrate" are not included in that. On the other hand, I LOVE my machine. Each time I print with it, things get a bit better due to the learning curve and general machine intricacies involved. No two machines will be exactly the same because these are kit and it requires the ability to use tools, and most critical, Think.. about problems and how to solve them. If you get stumped, there is a great group here that will help you solve problems because they want to see you succeed and have likely been through some of the same problems already and solved them. Not all did it the same way which makes it even more interesting.

With your time frame, I would suggest you look at something else. Perhaps a Solidoodle or Maker bot prebuilt machine. You have to decide what is important to you and maybe your budget is a bit on the small side for the Maker Bot

As for the video and the other guy, never watched it and don't care to. I have found Seemecnc and the Rostock Max to be a quality machine and company. Innovation brings change and it is always better to consult and work with the producer of a product than to whine like a spoiled brat in the interwebz (Based on what I read here by him).. Nothing gets accomplished by that than to create harm.

Ironic that the machine that builds things was bought by a person that only wants to tear things down because of ignorance.

flickerfly wrote:Is there a response to the videos on YouTube by Matt Kraemer? I saw Steve left a comment, but I guess I'm looking for more specific responses to his critiques. Here are some that stuck in my mind.

Should I expect to have to sand the lasercut parts?
Are the parts he assert are missing expected?
Is the build platform expected to vary or be warped like all of that?
Does the RAMBo need heat sinks on the motor controllers?
Are their documented techniques to address the difficulties he had with assembly in other areas like getting the screw in straight or lining up the rollers?
Have some of these been addressed in the kit as it currently stands?

In the end, my time is sadly limited. I don't expect to be able to get 4 hours in a row to do this build so I'm looking for something that is a complete kit, can be assembled reasonably quickly and get me some acceptable prints for under $1k. I also really like the delta bot idea for simplicity and it is just plain fun to watch.

1. I did not sand my parts, my printer prints. YMMV

2. I did have missing parts. Let me be clear on this point, I have never dealt with a company that was more understanding, more helpful, or faster to remedy my issues then Seemecnc.

3. IMHO, yes all stepper motor drivers need heatsinks. I installed them on my Gen7 board, Ramps, and now the Rambo. Get some Artic Silver thermal adhesive (the non board frying kind) and use sparingly. Note however that none of these electronics have come with heatsinks.

4. I'm not sure what screw was difficult to get in straight. I had no real issues with the assembly. The biggest PITA for me was lining up the verticles, I'm still not sure I have that bit right.

As others have stated, this is not the best choice for a first printer. I bought my printer in the the begining of March. I made my first print yesterday. I took my time and made several modifications that either others had recommended, or my experience told me I would want.

I would not recommend any delta as a first printer. A normal cartesian printer is very easy to troubleshoot. There are three axis' doing the moving in thier own linear plane. Troubleshooting comes down to finding the problem axis and fixing the issue. The delta is different. The three axis' work together to accomplish all movements. This makes troubleshooting a bit of a PITA. Experience with another printer would at least tell you where to start looking (belts, heat, extruder, etc.)

Hope it helps

Polygonhell wrote:There is a thread somewhere with various responses to the video.

I searched on the guys name and came up with nothing. Anyone have suggestions on what to search who saw it?

Polygonhell wrote:This caught my eye in your post

I don't expect to be able to get 4 hours in a row to do this

There is no way you will build any printer kit in that time, even if you've built one before.

Yeah, I understand that. I know myself enough to know the more breaks between working on it the longer it will take me to boot my brain back into the process which will result in hugely elongating the process. Also, I don't have much room to really spread out in where my 6yr old and 2yr old will not get into the parts during assembly.

Also, thanks for the cautions on a rostock maybe not being the place to start. What would you suggest as the most ideal first kit currently on the market?

foshon, thanks for your detailed response to my questions. I appreciate it. Would it be fair to say the rostockMax is simpler to build, but harder to calibrate?

Gotta say, the community here makes this printer more attractive even as you're suggesting it may not be a good fit for my first go.

cjdavis618 wrote:With your time frame, I would suggest you look at something else. Perhaps a Solidoodle or Maker bot prebuilt machine. You have to decide what is important to you and maybe your budget is a bit on the small side for the Maker Bot

Thanks for the suggestions on what else to look at. I'm internally at war with prebuilt. It is practical due to time constraints, but heavy on the budget and will just take longer to acquire due to saving for it. Also, I do want the experience of actually building it.

cjdavis618 wrote:As for the video and the other guy, never watched it and don't care to. I have found Seemecnc and the Rostock Max to be a quality machine and company. Innovation brings change and it is always better to consult and work with the producer of a product than to whine like a spoiled brat in the interwebz (Based on what I read here by him).. Nothing gets accomplished by that than to create harm.

His attitude definitely came through. I did find I had expectations that he had that would have been dashed when I worked on it though so the response is helpful. Also, his two videos came up as the first two items when I searched "RostockMax Reviews" so they seem rather high profile.

cjdavis618 wrote:Ironic that the machine that builds things was bought by a person that only wants to tear things down because of ignorance.

I do enjoy irony.

Just to add some more irony..

Within a few minutes of ordering my Rostock Max kit from SeeMeCNC I was perusing the Google+ 3D printer community and came across the video review from Matt Kraemer. My first reaction after watching was "Damn, did I just make a HUGE mistake???". Fortunately it seems like no, I did NOT make a huge mistake ordering this kit from SeeMeCNC. I'm getting pretty close to completely finishing my build and while difficult in some areas for me, mainly due to inexperience with soldering, and putting something like this together, it really hasn't been too bad. These forums have been INVALUABLE in getting my printer built. So, suffice it to say I'm very happy that I didn't let Mr. Kraemer's video review sway me in trying this kit out.

flickerfly wrote:foshon, thanks for your detailed response to my questions. I appreciate it. Would it be fair to say the rostockMax is simpler to build, but harder to calibrate?

Gotta say, the community here makes this printer more attractive even as you're suggesting it may not be a good fit for my first go.

Depends what one finds simple I suppose. I work on and run a CNC roll grinder at work. I have a fairly decent understanding of how things work in general and would recommend the MAX to anyone that feels they fall into that catagory. Many folks that want a 3d printer are artists with absolutely no mechanical skills whatsoever. I would not recommend it for them.

Yeah the folks around here are a huge plus. I know mine wouldn't be running as well (at all?) if not for the community.

cpunches wrote:I'm very happy that I didn't let Mr. Kraemer's video review sway me in trying this kit out.

I appreciate that.

foshon wrote:Many folks that want a 3d printer are artists with absolutely no mechanical skills whatsoever. I would not recommend it for them.

That's a helpful distinction. I think I'm rather mechanically minded and have no trouble taking things apart and re-assembling them. I enjoy doing this with my daughter and explaining the parts. Having looked at the mechanical drawings, they make sense.

I hadn't given the solidoodle a good look until this morning. I want the RostockMax, but my practicality is pulling me towards looking at the solidoodle. Do you have thoughts on how to convince my practical self that I need a RostockMax?

personal choice really, do you want to devote time to building and calibration, or buy a solidoodle that is already assembled?

He's being overly critical, take this with a grain of salt. Several of his complaints are related to his own craftsmanship and attention to detail. You can see that a lot of the finer details were skimmed over in his build, and that he's easily frustrated and doesn't do this sort of thing regularly. (I'm guessing that he'd make similar videos for anything else that requires assembly) There were also instructions posted online for most of the things that he said that there weren't.

Things like the extruder being loose, and the heated-bed wires running over the top of the printer are sloppy and stray from the directions. Criticisms like the difficulty soldering and having the motors slip are due to using the wrong tools and not understanding basic mechanical work. (I soldered my heated bed with a 35w cheapo Tenma from MCM with no issue, and a NEMA 17 motor is plenty torquey). The bearing assemblies are fine - you definitely have to over-torque them to damage one, and I don't think they're too heavy for the job either. I don't know how you'd even notice the flatness of the bed, did he clip it to a wavy piece of glass as a build plate?

He is right that you'll spend some time sanding and filing the moving arms, but this isn't a secret or a surprise. The manual outlines the different places that moving parts need to interface smoothly, and I think it's a given to a good running machine. Kind of like gapping spark plugs. They're new and shiny, but you have to put the finishing touch on them. Most of the time I spent above and beyond the 8-15 hours "as sold" was because I was being overly picky and cautious about the fit and movement being smooth and even. It sounds like the newest kits are shipping with arms that come pre-machined. For a couple bucks, it would be money well spent for anyone frustrated with this step.

He is correct that the lasercut parts have a slight angle to a few of the edges, but I didn't have to sand a single piece of wood to make it fit smoothly. This was a non-issue in my case.

In the end, some of his criticisms are accurate, but most are unfounded. In my mind, for $1000 how can you go wrong? I'd value the completed Rostock Max much higher than that. If you look at the other printers on the market, there's nothing else even close. I'm very happy with my unit. The assembly and tweaking are part of the fun. If you want an assembled machine that just prints, pony up the cash and just buy a makerbot

If you dont have the time to dedicate to build and calibrate the rostock then i would go with a prebuilt.
The rostock max loves to have your attention and before you know it 6 hours will have gone by without you realizing it

This printer was not too difficult to build at all. But as mentioned earlier, the ill effects of a lack of general experience with 3d printers is amplified with a delta printer. BUT and this is a BIG BUT. This forum and SeeMeCNC makes all the difference!!! Don't even dream of comparable costumer service with Makerbot. I have emailed SeeMe with an issue in the morning and I would have a tracking number for a free replacement part by the afternoon.

This is the way I saw it... ALL printers at this point in the technology WILL have issues and a learning curve. Even the $2-$3000 prebuilt ones. I figure if I built it I would understand the functionality and components better. The forum and SeeMe accelerate the process. Couple that with the fact that its 1000 less with just as much or more capability (when you eventually get it dialed in), it was an easy decision.

Thanks everybody.

Just to add my $0.02 to this thread

1) This Rostock Max was the second printer I built, and my 3rd 3D printer overall

2) Building a 3D printer introduces many headaches you won't have when buying a pre-assembled (aside from minor calibration adjustments due to shipping)

3) Printing takes time and practice, if you build a printer from scratch, you'll question if the problem is in the printer, or in your slicer settings. It will be harder to learn what the root cause of any problem you have will be. Fortunately for me, I started with a Makerbot Replicator - it took me 2 months of printing practice before I got the 'hang' of it, to the point where I can print most things on the Replicator without any issues the first time around.

4) Delta printers are still very new - Johan's original rostock plans were only released in August 2012! There's still very little documentation compared to other 3D printers.

I suggest you look at Printrbot - I think you'd be very pleased with the product and the support offered on their forums. I'm not dissing SeeMeCNC, but the fact of the matter is the Rostock MAX is simply not a 'stable' product - I haven't seen one person assemble this printer, and start printing with no problems. I've personally invested over 60 hours building my Rostock Max. 2 months later, I'm still not confident in starting an print and walking away for 12-24 hours.

Good luck with whatever printer you choose! Be patient, you're going to need a LOT of it.

Original thread, I believe:

http://forum.seemecnc.com/viewtopic.php ... 7951#p7951

JakeCShake wrote:Original thread, I believe:

http://forum.seemecnc.com/viewtopic.php ... 7951#p7951

Thanks, I put it on the first post so people can find it more easily if they are searching the guys name like I was trying to do.