Too hot, or filament starving?

[cjdavis618]

I am very impressed with my rostock and what it can do. I haven't had enough time to really put it through it's paces as much as I would like but I have nearly 113 hours of printing on it now. Printer is mostly stock with the exception of the Trick Laser arms and printed new axle and spool adapters for filement roll to turn easier/smoother. Still running the original hotend and extruder. Using 1.75 ABS from Seemecnc. No fan yet but I have plans to add one before the day is over. Printing the Belt tension levelers for it right now because belts are rubbing on the extrusions.

I recently started using it again to print some things for a project and ran into a problem with infill. I can't tell whether this is a section that is too hot or if the filament is starving once the print has ran for a few minutes. First layers look great and are filled in perfectly. This was with a .5 infill at 60mm/s infill rate. Printing first layer at 220c/80c first layer , then running 220c/60c for other layers.

What does this look like to you?
[img]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/cjdavis618/rostock/6B8F6A59-ED9F-4996-8E39-8A9E3368FF95_zpsdeekzn8v.jpg[/img]


I have also attached my complete eeprom settings to make sure there is nothing there I am missing.

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

[Nylocke]

220C seems pretty low... have you tried 230-240C?

[cjdavis618]

That is where I started out but any bridging is a pain with it that high. This part a few doze layers up has a bridge that needs complete, so I run it at 220 to make that happen. I don't get great bridging regardless of anything less more than 3/4" or more. Maybe I should print to a certainl layer with 230 and then stop the print and adjust to finish? Indexing it I guess?

I'm seeing this on the current print as well and I bumped up the flowrate to 105 and it seems to be better. So either I am slipping or slicer is not slicing correctly.

My extruder measurements are coming out pretty good. Although it does try to curl to the same way all the time. Maybe there is a nozzle issue. Seems like it comes out about 5 degrees off center when there is length on the filament already weighting it down. I'll re run the extruder/nozzle calibration and try again once this print is done.

[Nylocke]

What are your bridge settings? You should probably be bridging pretty quickly, slow bridging yields poor results. ABS doesn't need a fan, and you really shouldn't use a fan on ABS. +230C is kind of a must as well.... Your temp shouldn't be that low in any circumstances, its all about your bridging settings.

[cjdavis618]

Running the bridging tests, I was running 60mm/s with it. Anymore than that would break the filament as it stretched.

I also print mostly at .20mm layers to get a good print quality. I start with .36 first layer for good adhesion. Bed seems to be pretty level also. I spent a lot of time with that on this borosilicate plate.

[cjdavis618]

This really makes no sense now.

I re leveled the bed within .05mm at outer edges. (0 in center)

Tested my extrusions again using the Mhackney worksheet and measured withing .05% of filament in/out with micrometer. And then adjusted the print settings to 1 extrusion ratio and even 1 infill and I am still getting places where it is starved. I printed a "Greg's struder" for rostock - main gear and then the small spur gear. The main gear is showing gaps between path on the top infill but bottom layers printed perfect. The spur gear has some "Spiral" effect to it when printing and has gaps in the print where it looks like it melted down and didn't fill properly.

Once I get back to the house in just a few I will post the photos to explain.

I am going to try a couple of things tonight to make sure it isn't a PC issue. I had recently updated the repetier software along with slic3r and that may be a contributing factor. I do not remember this happening before. I will put the file on the SD card and run it without the PC and see if it still happens.

[626Pilot]

Go back to your stock extruder or get an EZ-Struder. Running an extruder you printed with a buggy printer isn't going to make this easy.

If I had to guess I would say you need to slow down your printing on the roof. I think Slic3r has a setting just for that.

[cjdavis618]

Still running stock currently.

Here are the pics of the parts I printed last night. As you can see the infill isn't making any sense considering my material in/material out is showing to be very close. But that is not measuring during a load.

[img]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/cjdavis618/rostock/1C68D08C-B02B-4518-9B76-F8C85233B9F7_zpsunmabir7.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/cjdavis618/rostock/65275AD9-8DE0-448E-8FA4-752B13DF4CEA_zpst5ytkkee.jpg[/img]


Notice the odd pattern to the gear on this one. Missed steps? These were printed at 30mm exterior perimeters and 60mm/s infill. I'm running them again with 30/30 but this seems very slow compared to what others print on the deltas.

[img]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/cjdavis618/rostock/D7AC9D5C-B5A4-463D-8457-31E3E07A00F7_zpsqoe5slo9.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/cjdavis618/rostock/1951972E-54DE-4BAA-A8AE-82B45E0CE889_zpsdpbjguza.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/cjdavis618/rostock/B363D9EF-8778-4D7D-9515-74FADEBC4D97_zps68rgkrv1.jpg[/img]

[Nylocke]

Where did you get your filament from? to me it looks kinda cheaply made, there might be some server impurities in it...

[cjdavis618]

Ordered it from seemecnc with my rostock. Granted, this ABS has been in a non climate controlled shop for most of the year.

I am printing a piece from the SD card now and also reset the firmware to the .83 repetiermax github. Looks much better so far.

[Nylocke]

Thats really weird... What temp were you using, and what hot end are you using, and if its the SeeMe one, do you have a PEEK fan?

[cjdavis618]

No fans at all. Right now I am using 230/80. I was using 220 because of the corners of small parts loosing shape and had bumped it between 220 and 230 depending on part size.

I need to add one for some really small parts so the layers will cool and not warp.

I had been using it with repetier and usb with the 250000 speed. No buffer issues that I could tell from my Intel I7 that was running it. The buffer lcd display always stayed at 16 just like the sd card is doing now. I am going to run this part again with the usb and see what happens but so far this part is looking fantastic with 1 infill and 1 extrusion. This was at .20 layer height.

[Nylocke]

So you are using the SeeMe hot end? you should probably get a PEEK fan on it, not super likely to improve print results, but you never know. ABS generally doesn't need a layer fan, PLA is really the only plastic that needs extra cooling... You really should be at 230-240C. Your Accel and Jerk settings in firmware might be kinda low if you are loosing definition in corners... I'm fairly convinced that you are running your hot end too low and your issues can be resolved by adjusting your print settings and printer firmware values...

[cjdavis618]

I have some 25mm fans and I will mount one of those on the peek section this weekend then.

Here is the reason I thought I needed a fan.
[img]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/cjdavis618/rostock/C6664EA1-2EF2-408C-BB0C-05B560DF0DE0_zpsruagjfpe.jpg[/img]

See the small section that is to the right of the part. It is getting too hot and is deforming during print. These are the kind of parts with small towers and columns that I need to have cooling based on what I have read.

This whole part is only about 1 1/4" long but the tower that deformed is about 1/4" sq and 1/2" tall.

[Eaglezsoar]

You could try to print two of them at the same time, as it is printing one the other has a chance to cool a little. Using a fan on ABS will result in delamination of the layers.

[geneb]

The top of that large gear looks to me like you're dramatically under-extruding, going too fast or aren't printing hot enough.

g.

[cjdavis618]

Thanks everyone. I agree with all of you. For whatever reason the firmware is helping the prints tremendously going from .81 to .83 from Johnoly's github downloads. I compared the before and after eeprom settings and they all are exactly the same with exception to some acceleration settings.

I did find a new problem though after I got the firmware updated. Now for whatever reason, my prints always hit the hotbed when they start, even though the gcode shows to start at .30mm first layer. I have changed the eeprom settings from my level and total max height of 371.15/0 to 370.85/0 and then reset the machine and repetier, and even on restart it shows max height 370.85 but yet again it still hits the bed. I even adjusted further down to 370.55 and tried again and it still hits the bed. But if I manually enter g1 z2 it stops exactly 2mm above the bed.. ?

I have also made sure that I used the m114 command to use rambo steps and same result.

I remember a similar problem back when I first started by someone but my search-fu isn't turning up anything.

[cjdavis618]

This just gets better and better lol.

(Keep in mind, I zero'ed and leveled the table with the hotend and bed at printing temps)

So, I start a print and the head hits the table. Rostock LCD and Repetier says it is .30mm above the table. I stop the print and then manually raise the head by .10 at a time and it gets to 1.10mm and then starts oozing. I then clear the job, G28 to the top and then m114 and both now say 371mm. I G1 z2 and then jog down and the machine zeros and touches the bed exactly where it did before the print, at exactly 0. I then run the print again and it slams into the bed again. I checked slic3r, made sure there are no offsets in the slicer config, and there are no offsets in the eeprom or printer config. All are set to 0.

I then for the sake of trying it. I adjusted the printer back to 369.9 (The 1.10 I had to manually raise) for eeprom and printer settings. Saved and then resliced the print.

Here is where it gets weird.

I start the print and it completes a real nice 3 line skirt around the part to get the flow started. It then moves over and UP the .30 and then leaves me with a .60 gap between bed and hotend. No changes have been made to the skirt settings and have been the same since calibration months ago. Not sure where to go from here except back to my old firmware.

It's like the skirt is printing at below zero and then the print corrects itself to the .30 once it moves over. But still there is a .40 gap between the printable Z max limit and the printers actual measured envelope.

[cjdavis618]

Went back to old firmware and it is working ok. I'll know soon if the prints still suck.

[dpmacri]

The SeeMeCnc .83 firmware has lower motor current values than their .80 version (175 vs. 195). For me and MSU Runner, that seems to have caused missed steps leading to tilting/shifting. I'm wondering if it's causing missed steps for you such that the height is getting calculated incorrectly. Try changing the current of the .83 version up to 195 and you might have better luck.

[cjdavis618]

I'll certainly try it again. But it seemed like it was adding steps, but only during a print. That was the strange part. I could manually move it down by code, or jog it down and it would zero perfectly. But if I ran gcode it was like the machine would add extra steps.

I've reset the eeprom on it, that didn't make any difference either. So I just went back to .81 that I had. Bad part is now I can't use the SDcard with it. That version that I was using had the card bug.

[MSURunner]

You technically shouldn't need to reslice something after changing the z height as that's something controlled by the firmware, not the g-code file itself. But regardless of that, if you wanted to post a g-code file and an stl I'll take a look. I think you need to .zip them to get them to post to the forum.

[cjdavis618]

I was just reslicing to make sure I wasn't missing a setting or something. I took the same file with the old firmware and it worked fine.

I have 4 other cnc machines (Mill, Lathe, Plasma, Laser) (Flashcut and Mach3 Controllers) and work with Gcode quite a bit. Nothing in the Gcode was amiss but the printer was clearly printing the skirt below z0 and then moving up to do the rest. I watched line by line and no offsets or changes in Z were recorded by the file or the display on the machine but you could watch it move up the .30 above the skirt and start the print. I'm the first to say that if the Gcode didn't tell it to, then it didn't, but I ran through it step by step through the skirt code and the part code and there were no z changes. But now that it was brought up. looking at the movement, it could have been the Z axis stalling on the move to part location to print. But that still doesn't explain why the print head goes below the z0 to print since manual Z entry or Jog lands exactly where it needs to.

Maybe I got lucky and downloaded a screwed up firmware from the fork on Git, but it did make the SD card work. I can't use SD now on it with .81.

[Bill Havins]

cidavis618,

Please excuse me for just scanning this thread but did I see above that this is an "early" Rostock MAX? I recently upgraded my firmware from .80(?) to .83 and I had to go into Arduino and tweak the Configuration.h file to match my early Rostock's characteristics. For example, I had to set the pulley teeth count back to 15; the "new" pulleys have 20 teeth. There are a number of other settings that need adjustment for "older" machines.

Another issue (I think) is the way the delta movement is now managed. You might find it useful to download the latest version of the Assembly Manual and go through the Delta Radius calibration steps. It is easier than the original (IMHO) and is well-documented in geneb's narrative.

In the software section of the manual you will find another interesting tidbit - the steps per mm for the extruder. If you are using one of Steve's original extruders the steps need to be set to 584. The new direct-drive extruders use a different and much lower value.

Hope this helps! And good luck.

Bill

[MSURunner]

Maybe I got lucky and downloaded a screwed up firmware from the fork on Git, but it did make the SD card work. I can't use SD now on it with .81.

https://github.com/seemecnc/RepetierMAX-Dev

This is the fork I'm currently using